Milky War War Spoilers?

[Vanek26]

With enough caution they could be made safe, and it wouldn't really be more dangerous than genetically engineering something, since you can never be 100% sure that it won't have unforeseen consequences in the outside world.

Which is why the zombies are gonna kill us all.

Still, from a outside perspective, I'd be annoyed to see replicators again. And from the storyline of the show, I'd say the Tau'ri would only do that as a last ditch weapon, with Rodney putting a ton of safeguards in.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Morbo,

So, we're going to commit our ground forces to mining rather than defense? Further, that doesn't address transport, refining, and manufacturing costs.

[morbosfist]

So, we're going to commit our ground forces to mining rather than defense? Further, that doesn't address transport, refining, and manufacturing costs.

You're just going to go to extremes for every single little thing now? Don't be absurd. Believe it or not, it is possible to have different groups assigned to different tasks. Transport, refining, and manufacturing is a non-issue. We have the facilities and infrastructure to do all those things already.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Morbo,

As others have pointed out Earth has been under rather serious threat of invasion for some time and the best we've been able to do is one 304 a year? What is going to change now? We've been dragging our feet about building a large fleet of 304s, why?

[morbosfist]

As others have pointed out Earth has been under rather serious threat of invasion for some time and the best we've been able to do is one 304 a year? What is going to change now? We've been dragging our feet about building a large fleet of 304s, why?

Until recently, Earth has had a planetary defense that can kill an entire fleet in a few minutes. In fact, we technically still do if Atlantis is still on Earth. Just move the drones to Atlantis, problem solved. Either way, the fact remains that production can always move faster. It isn't now, as far as we know (a large portion of the SGCs budget was going to be allocated to 304 construction in season 9 of SG1), because there hasn't been a pressing need. And given the inferior ships the Alliance flies, there arguably still isn't.

[Wayston]

it would be cool if they managed to come across some Ori ships left in the Milky Way after the Ori followers pulled out, the LA wouldn't be able to repair or even run them long term but they could use them in a surprise offensive on earth to punch a hole through earth's defences in a major invasion

unfortunately such cool things are bound not to happen

[Kanten]

it would be cool if they managed to come across some Ori ships left in the Milky Way after the Ori followers pulled out, the LA wouldn't be able to repair or even run them long term but they could use them in a surprise offensive on earth to punch a hole through earth's defences in a major invasion

Aren't Ori ships practically useless without a Prior?

[General Jumper One]

Aren't Ori ships practically useless without a Prior?

no, Carter found a way to bypass the Prior

[Descended]

it would be cool if they managed to come across some Ori ships left in the Milky Way after the Ori followers pulled out, the LA wouldn't be able to repair or even run them long term but they could use them in a surprise offensive on earth to punch a hole through earth's defences in a major invasion

unfortunately such cool things are bound not to happen

Ori ships aren't a threat anymore, the Odyssey with Asgard weapons engaged several of them in Unending and destroyed them pretty readily, it was only in trouble because the Priors could track the Asgard core and Odyssey couldn't recover between battles since they were constantly getting pounced on. Even in the LA found a few Ori ships the new F304s could take them out with ease.

Earth has become such a bad-ass that it makes absolutely zero sense for the LA to attack us, since we don't actively hunt them. Earth has proven time and again that we don't really care what people are doing out in the galaxy unless it threatens us or they attack us, so we would be perfectly happy to sit back and let the LA rule a few planets and we would leave them in peace unless they started planning an attack on us.

Why would anyone pick a fight with Earth? We defeated directly or indirectly Ra, Nirrti, Cronus, Apophis, Heru'ur, Ba'al, Sokar, Imhotep, a partially Ascended Anubis and his Asgard upgraded fleet (from Thor's brain), the MW replicators, the human-form Replicators (5th and Replicarter), Ba'als clones, the Trust, the Priors, and entire galaxy of Ascended beings (Ori), another Ascended being in Adria, the Wraith, the Genii, the Pegasus Replicators (Asurans) and the LA in every other engagement except Icarus. We have the F304s, Atlantis, and the Antarctic weapons platform (assuming they could replace the chair, either from a possible spare on Atlantis or another Ancient outpost or vessel) and the entire knowledge base of both the Ancients and the Asgard.

Why would they attack us!?! The writers better give a damn good reason other that "because they are evil." They aren't stupid.

no, Carter found a way to bypass the Prior

With the help of an Ascended Merlin living in a Prior Daniel's brain, probably not something that is easy to figure out otherwise.

[tainor]

I did not read the entire thread, but I am going to say it. If push comes to shove, all that Earth has to do is go to the Pegasus galaxy, and get the Control Chair from Atlantis Sister city. This way we have our Antarctica outpost back an drone platform working perfectly, treat minimal.

Tain

[Kaiphantom]

I don't call entire cities low-key.

Tactically speaking, they are. Blowing up an Earth City or two, even if they are New York and London, won't accomplish much besides ticking Earth off.

And "Earth's full force" doesn't seem like a big deal at all. Yes, we have half-a-dozen very powerful ships and Atlantis, but using them to cover a good deal of the entire galaxy? Even if the LA isn't a match for them, they can easily just evade our attacks. They have a whole galaxy to play in, after all. It's hard for me to imagine it as a total slaughter of LA forces; it'll be more like a neverending hide-and-seek game.

Subversion showed that Earth doesn't know the location of every LA outpost. Who knows how many planets the LA has under their control that we don't know about that they can easily hide on?

No, we wouldn't be able to wipe them all out. But we could very well infiltrate the planets where they draw support from and free those people. We can get intel on where their ships and shipyards are(if any) and take them out. Essentially, we'd cause the LA a world of hurt and make it very clear, "Keep your **** out of our backyard, because we can and will make things very difficult for you if you intervene."

But you actually made one of my points for you. Space is vast, therefore there is no reason for the LA to attack Earth when there are plenty of other easier planets with resources out there. So, again, the writers need to give me a reason.

Besides, if the LA do decide to take out Earth, then I'd think they'd be prepared for the backlash, at least on some level (i.e. they're prepared to run).

Or they're just dumb as hell.

[Wayston]

Ori ships aren't a threat anymore, the Odyssey with Asgard weapons engaged several of them in Unending and destroyed them pretty readily, it was only in trouble because the Priors could track the Asgard core and Odyssey couldn't recover between battles since they were constantly getting pounced on. Even in the LA found a few Ori ships the new F304s could take them out with ease.

Earth has become such a bad-ass that it makes absolutely zero sense for the LA to attack us, since we don't actively hunt them. Earth has proven time and again that we don't really care what people are doing out in the galaxy unless it threatens us or they attack us, so we would be perfectly happy to sit back and let the LA rule a few planets and we would leave them in peace unless they started planning an attack on us.

Why would anyone pick a fight with Earth? We defeated directly or indirectly Ra, Nirrti, Cronus, Apophis, Heru'ur, Ba'al, Sokar, Imhotep, a partially Ascended Anubis and his Asgard upgraded fleet (from Thor's brain), the MW replicators, the human-form Replicators (5th and Replicarter), Ba'als clones, the Trust, the Priors, and entire galaxy of Ascended beings (Ori), another Ascended being in Adria, the Wraith, the Genii, the Pegasus Replicators (Asurans) and the LA in every other engagement except Icarus. We have the F304s, Atlantis, and the Antarctic weapons platform (assuming they could replace the chair, either from a possible spare on Atlantis or another Ancient outpost or vessel) and the entire knowledge base of both the Ancients and the Asgard.

Why would they attack us!?! The writers better give a damn good reason other that "because they are evil." They aren't stupid.



With the help of an Ascended Merlin living in a Prior Daniel's brain, probably not something that is easy to figure out otherwise.

all of this can be easily swept aside by a good writer with creative ideas. Say there are Ori priors left in the Milky Way who are no longer backed by the power of the Ori but still have significant capabilities due to being evolutionary advanced humans (somewhere in between ordinary humans and Adria's level) and they side with the Lucian alliance in the hopes of restarting the Ori society (with in the long run themselves at the top as ascended beings). The ancients wouldn't lift a finger to help earth this time and even if earth ships might be more powerful than an ori battleship pound per pound, there would still be a significant difference in numbers and the ori priors could bolster the regular LA fleet too.

I'm just thinking out loud here, but it sounds interesting to me.

[morbosfist]

all of this can be easily swept aside by a good writer with creative ideas. Say there are Ori priors left in the Milky Way who are no longer backed by the power of the Ori but still have significant capabilities due to being evolutionary advanced humans (somewhere in between ordinary humans and Adria's level) and they side with the Lucian alliance.

Why wouldn't Stargate Command make sure they were all sent home? There's a subspace link connecting them. They'd know if one stayed behind. Either way, without a ship (which the SGC would NOT allow to be left abandoned), a Prior could be neutralized easily once they knew he was around.

[garhkal]

We'd be able to tell the difference. Alien weapons aren't the same as human ones.

Well since we see them using earth like weapons when the stormed the Destiny, what is to stop them using earth based ones when they attack earth?

[QUOTE=morbosfist;11968605]
Netan runs the Lucian Alliance. He could have committed more.[quote]

True dat...

It takes a year to build a ship, and that was by the standards of common Earth manufacturing. Now we have Asgard tech. And if they had the kind of resources to commit to that, Earth wouldn't be a threat.

It seemed like it took longer for the Prometheus and first 2 dadelus class.

Because in that same episode we dialled quicker than Sokar.

Eventually yes.. I will give you that.

Right up until we got tired of it and monitored 24/7. Strategy fails.

No it does not. We have not seen any of our sensors (well unless atlantis says around on earth, which the developers have said won't happen) cover the entire planet. AND yes nothing is stopping them monitor 24/7, but that ties up more resources and shows the LA they have worried us.

One, that was Vala, and she hadn't even heard of us. It was coincidence. Telford was only stealing Icarus data. Rush was in his mind; he'd know.

I suppose rush would know if he stole more, but until they show that, i am willing to give Telford the benefit of the doubt he could have stolen more info.

Neither of which has changed from then to now.

Except one is larger and better organized. So how is that NOT changing it.

If he took leave, he wouldn't be working period. It would be even more suspicious.

I;ll give you that point..

It's like a land land vs a cell phone.

And both work to allow you to talk at great distances... just one is mobile.

Which would only go to prove that the Alliance can't take a 304 that's fully armed.

In low numbers yes.. Remember though, we both agree the Phoneix (last man) was taken by large numbers of wraiths.. so it can be done.

When your enemy doesn't have the same ability, it's a lot easier. There's no evidence that anyone but the Goa'uld have the knowledge to build their ships.

I still think that an org the size/power the LA seems to now have, has the capacity to build some ships....

Mitchell was given the reports because he was going to lead SG1.

I still think that anyone else in the SG org could read all other mission reports.. BUT for now i will give you this point.

The SGC already runs a few dozen teams at any one time. The gate doesn't need to be active constantly. Scheduled daily supply drops would be simple.

I see the amt of material needing to be gathered for building just ONE ship as taking up a lot of time of the gate, to be sufficient in duration to monopolize its use when you expand that to 3 or more ships which some of you think we would be building at once...

The production capacity is very limited. You can only expand your workforce so much before too much information starts leaking out; the more people are in on the secret, the harder it is to keep it secret. Independent contractors must be kept out of the loop too, so you need lots of them, each working on a part of the project too small to explain the whole. You need to change them regularly, too, otherwise some smart alec will eventually put two and two together. All that slows the manufacture down.

Which we have already seen happen twice.. Once with the replicator getting out (Sga) and again with that guy who wanted to kidnap Mccay to cure his daughter. I might even include the wheel chair bound guy in sga season (or was it 5) who kidnapped carter to try and learn about getting a symbiot to heal him..

Moreover, such gigantic expenditures are very hard to conceal. You need to create a believable paper trail that explains to the Congress and the public where the money is going. This is no small challenge by itself.

Which iirc is how that reporter chick learned of the prometheus.

And YOU are forgetting the LA has the same access to that database thanks to its moles. O.O

I doubt that very much...

More to the point, what the Goa'uld controlled does not equate to what the Lucian Alliance controls now. It is unlikely they would have multiple shipyards, if any at all, or that they would be able to duplicate the vessels anyway.

True, but it is imo a safe assumption that they did at least get some of them.

The Lucian Alliance, far as we know, does not have nukes. Nukes are human tech, always have been.

WRONG. The Genii had them.. And since the LA have set up shop down here, i cannot see any reason to suggest they could not get their hands on some (russia!!!)

no, Carter found a way to bypass the Prior

And if the LA scientists are anything to see (how easily they operated the destny) i can see them duplicating that feat.

a Prior could be neutralized easily once they knew he was around.

Thats assuming we get close enough to him to turn that device on...

[morbosfist]

Well since we see them using earth like weapons when the stormed the Destiny, what is to stop them using earth based ones when they attack earth?

The fact that they'd be sacrificing their advantage to do so.

It seemed like it took longer for the Prometheus and first 2 dadelus class.

Mass-production is a lot easier than research and development.

No it does not. We have not seen any of our sensors (well unless atlantis says around on earth, which the developers have said won't happen) cover the entire planet. AND yes nothing is stopping them monitor 24/7, but that ties up more resources and shows the LA they have worried us.

Wouldn't be hard to build Earth-based sensor arrays or a satellite network.

I suppose rush would know if he stole more, but until they show that, i am willing to give Telford the benefit of the doubt he could have stolen more info.

It would only work to a point. The fact that he hasn't been caught indicates his theft could not have gone beyond his own department.

Except one is larger and better organized. So how is that NOT changing it.

It's not changing because the Alliance isn't any larger or better organized than it was at the start.

And both work to allow you to talk at great distances... just one is mobile.

Which is a big difference.

In low numbers yes.. Remember though, we both agree the Phoneix (last man) was taken by large numbers of wraiths.. so it can be done.

Because it was boxed in and couldn't run. Remember, hive ships are on the order of 10 times larger than a 304. A Ha'tak is maybe twice the volume without being significantly wider.

I still think that an org the size/power the LA seems to now have, has the capacity to build some ships....

Assuming they have the shipyards and expertise to do so. These aren't things the Goa'uld share with slaves.

I see the amt of material needing to be gathered for building just ONE ship as taking up a lot of time of the gate, to be sufficient in duration to monopolize its use when you expand that to 3 or more ships which some of you think we would be building at once...

Resources could quickly pass through the gate. It wouldn't monopolize gate use at all.

Which we have already seen happen twice.. Once with the replicator getting out (Sga) and again with that guy who wanted to kidnap Mccay to cure his daughter. I might even include the wheel chair bound guy in sga season (or was it 5) who kidnapped carter to try and learn about getting a symbiot to heal him..

Maybourne was responsible for that last one. The Replicator was military funded (someone was in on it). Devlin is a valid point.

Which iirc is how that reporter chick learned of the prometheus.

No. Frank Simmons (or his flunkies, same thing really) tipped her off.

True, but it is imo a safe assumption that they did at least get some of them.

I'll grant this is possible.

WRONG. The Genii had them.. And since the LA have set up shop down here, i cannot see any reason to suggest they could not get their hands on some (russia!!!)

The Genii had to make them, and they developed them as a matter of course (scientific development naturally gravitates along that kind of path). The Lucian Alliance went from medieval to spacefaring automatically. There's also no clear evidence the guns are human-made.

And if the LA scientists are anything to see (how easily they operated the destny) i can see them duplicating that feat.

They managed to get the doors to work. They were powerless to beat Rush. They can work a console. They don't have the skill to outdo someone familiar with the tech. Carter had help from Prior Daniel, so no Alliance fool is going to duplicate that.

Thats assuming we get close enough to him to turn that device on...

It works by sound. Don't have to get all that close. The Prior is useless the second he gets close enough to start using his powers.