Hammond vs. Goa'uld Ships

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Snowman,

How long did it take Earth (in the Stargate Universe) to go from Space Suttles to 304s? That's with the tech we've found and reverse enginnered.

[morbosfist]

That line of reasoning fails, Scot. We got as far as we did by not only by taking and reverse engineering technology, but by being given design specs and assistance from far more powerful races. You can't keep trying to argue that the Alliance can do the same thing when there is nowhere for them to get that kind of tech.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Morbo,

Nowhere, we know of. Big galaxy, bigger universe.

[morbosfist]

That's just an excuse to avoid facing the facts.

One, they cannot even leave the galaxy. Intergalactic travel is something only the Tau'ri can do now.

Two, of the many races we've seen, there's only been one alien race ever encountered that they could possibly meet and get tech from, and that's the aliens from "Grace". Seeing as how they fired on the Prometheus unprovoked, that idea is gone.

Three, Ancient technology wouldn't cut it. Beam weapons vape Ancient ships just as fast as Ori ships.

You keep falling back on this "but they could have found something" idea when the simple fact is that the Alliance as it is now cannot possibly be a credible threat in interstellar war.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Morbo,

I'll bet the Aztecs and the Incas said, "This can't be possible" a lot. The Universe is not just stranger than we imagine. It is stranger than we can imagine.

[morbosfist]

This isn't the real universe, though, it's the fictional one, the details of which we are far more familiar with.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

morbo,

Yes, but the fictional universe is based on the real universe meaning the LA could have run into something/discovered something that dramatically improved their tech. You know, like the SGC did.

[garhkal]

I dout that it was Ori tech they found, thats a bit of a strech, considering the only real heavy duty tech the Ori had were their ships and they're long gone. I think its more plausible that Telford wasn't the only one of Earths people they captured and brainwashed. There were probably a few scientists captured to and force/brainwashed into up gradeing the LA ships. Also knowing the LA, I doubt these upgrades were sheared with the rest of the "Allience".

WE know from SG1 season 10 there was at least 1 Ori ship on the ground when the Jaffa unleashed the Dakara weapon. Who's to say there wasn;t some others...

Presumably, all of the Earth ships would get the same upgrades.

We may have had the know how, but do we have the material/tools?

The problem isn't that the Lucian Alliance have beefed up their pyramid ships. The issue is that they were freed from Goa'uld oppression in SG-1's eighth season. Just four years later, they can match the Asgard? Really?

From what we learn in Season 2's ep Aftermath, the LA have been a lot more active than just 4 years. 15 at the least...

Ginn's testimony proves nothing of the sort. It only shows that they recruit by force.

BUT it does smack those who say they are only a recent threat...

And as we have seen ourselves. THE ancients we a bunch of litter bugs when it comes to store houses of info/.tech..

[HuNteD]

Anubis's Hataks were able to kick a Beliskner Class to the curb pretty easily and they have the same or similar level of shields to the 304's. Without beam weapons a 304 should loose badly to 3 of them especially since we still have no idea how effective rail guns and missiles will be against one.. It's entirely possible that the LA were able to get a hold of the blueprints to Anubis's improvements. it's also possible that the LA may have fugitive goauld or former hosts working on improvements either willingly or under duress.

[morbosfist]

Anubis Ha'taks don't have shields anywhere near as potent as a 304. That's just nonsense. They could only beat an Asgard science vessel when they outnumbered it. They couldn't take three top-of-the-line O'Neill class vessels, and human ships have shields equal to those.

[Gala]

morbo,

What I don't understand is why? Why is it impossible for the LA to have encountered tech or some database that would allow them to beef up their Ha'taks? As I said before, it's a big galaxy for them to explore. You seem to be assuming the LA is dumb because the LA has been protrayed as dumb on SG-1 and SGA and cannot change or develop new leadership.

Because the beam weapons pierced straight through the asuran ship's shields.

I don't believe there's any way that the hatak's had their shields upgraded enough to resist beam weapons. We saw that their primary weapons are still pretty shoddy. I think either the hammond was hit out of nowhere and it's beam weapons were knocked offline or they were not yet installed.

[morbosfist]

^This.

No matter how much you want to cling to the belief that the Lucian Alliance could magically find uber tech that surpasses even the Asgard weapons which can beat the Ancients and Ori, the simple fact of the matter is that the Lucian Alliance has not demonstrated an ounce of new development from their introduction to their current state. They still use Goa'uld ships, and they still steal everything they have.

[garhkal]

But that they DO steal tech, would give credence to them perhaps having some of Anubis's former fleet of hataks.

[morbosfist]

But that they DO steal tech, would give credence to them perhaps having some of Anubis's former fleet of hataks.

They do have some of Anubis' Ha'taks. Netan specifically has one. It doesn't matter. They could only take a Bliskner-class in a fight, outnumbering it I might add. They're no match for a current-generation 304.

[HuNteD]

Except for all we know the railsgun's and missiles might as well be pea shooters against hatak's shields as the only ships we've seen them used against are wraith hives and cruisers (no shields), Oric motherships (uber shields) and an alkesh (much weaker shields then an hatak).