Cor-Ai (115)

[Saquist]

Something O'neil says in this episode.


"The whole concept of Chain of command undermins the concept of free will."

Superior Orders
(often known as the Nuremberg Defense or Lawful Orders) is a plea in a court of law that a soldier not be held guilty for actions which were ordered by a superior office.[1] The superior orders plea is similar to the doctrine of respondeat superior in tort law where a superior is held liable for the actions of a subordinate, and the subordinate may escape liability.[2] Some legal scholars and war crimes tribunals will correlate the plea to the doctrine of respondeat superior; whereas others will distinguish the plea from the doctrine of respondeat superior.


The superior orders plea as often regarded as the complement to Command responsibility.

One of the most noted uses of this plea, or "defense," was by the accused in the 1945-46 Nuremberg Trials, such that it is also called the "Nuremberg Defense." The Nuremberg Trials were a series of military tribunals, held by the main victorious Allied forces of World War II, most notable for the prosecution of prominent members of the political, military, and economic leadership of the defeated Nazi Germany. It was during these trials, under the London Charter of the International Military Tribunal which set them up, that the defense of "Superior Orders" was no longer considered enough to escape punishment; but merely enough to lessen punishment.[4]

Historically, the plea of "Superior Orders" has been used both before and after the Nuremberg Trials, with a notable lack of consistency in various rulings.

I find it curious that O'Neil did not know this.
Every solider should know this.

[ChulaksPrincess]

Teal'c is indeed a man of awesome character. He was willing to face his punishment and die, and determined not to run.

Saquist, thank you for the information in the above post. I didn't know that.

[Narurin]

I really liked this episode because it showed us more of Teal'c while he was first prime. It gave us the first hint too, that he believed the Gou'ld to be false gods long before SG1 came along.

[PrinceOri]

So this episode annoyed me a lot... I know people have said some great things about it, but it annoyed me greatly. First of all: I already knew his character before this. He saved SG-1 and so you kind of knew he was a good guy. And I thought it was horrible you had to put him through that....yeah, not a big fan of this episode.

[Lunaeclipse]

So this episode annoyed me a lot... I know people have said some great things about it, but it annoyed me greatly. First of all: I already knew his character before this. He saved SG-1 and so you kind of knew he was a good guy. And I thought it was horrible you had to put him through that....yeah, not a big fan of this episode.

I think you missed the point... It's about more than Teal'c being a good guy. There are a few other lessons/ideas in that ep.

[Starscape91]

At first I was dreading watching this episode, but now I'm glad I did. I forgot that they compared the things Teal'c did in the service to the Goa'uld to the things Jack did in the service to the U.S. Air Force. And can you be held accountable for the deeds your commanding officer order you to do or in Teal'c's case his god? Although I think their is some rule in the Air Force that says something about being able to disobey an order for something, but I forget.

[dtheories]

Something O'neil says in this episode.
"The whole concept of Chain of command undermins the concept of free will."
Superior Orders

This was a very interesting read! Thanks for sharing. Judge Bill Dwyer wrote a book on the rule of law and its development over time that was also fascinating.

There were so many storylines condensed into this one ep! My appreciation for the townspeople's application of their law was based particularly on their personal honor; they would not first claim something that was not true, and so, they would only discharge their version of justice based on the harm caused by the victim. The manner in which the young man begged forgiveness for his treatment of Teal'c; the equality among the citizens who revere their elders, but feel strong enough to challenge each other when they feel the laws are being betrayed. Most people quietly whine behind the scenes rather than advocate for what is right - for themselves or another.

Their willingness to fight, even knowing they would be outmanned and outgunned by the Goa'uld, reflected their respect for humanity. Naming the 'gate the Circle of Woes suggests a people of compassion, and using the laws to treat another unfairly would not benefit the individual nor their culture.

And, Hot Damn, Teal'c! Whoa!

[muziqaz]

didn't really enjoy the villagers behaviour.
But as always, timely appearance of jaffa saved the day

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

Not my favourite ep. I found Teal'c to be out of character.

It annoyed me because Teal'c wants to free the Jaffa. Most importantly his son. He can't exactly do that if he's dead now can he. So it annoyed me that he was so willing to die.

[fems]

But Jaffa also have a very strong sense of honor.

[lookupwardsnshare]

Enjoyed the ep but not one of my favs. It was very character driven especially for Teal'c. Not only do we see Teal'c's honor but I think he realizes that he more than a member of SG-1 but that the team considers him a friend and will stick by him no matter what and willing to do what ever to save him.

There were so many storylines condensed into this one ep! My appreciation for the townspeople's application of their law was based particularly on their personal honor; they would not first claim something that was not true, and so, they would only discharge their version of justice based on the harm caused by the victim. The manner in which the young man begged forgiveness for his treatment of Teal'c; the equality among the citizens who revere their elders, but feel strong enough to challenge each other when they feel the laws are being betrayed. Most people quietly whine behind the scenes rather than advocate for what is right - for themselves or another.

Their willingness to fight, even knowing they would be outmanned and outgunned by the Goa'uld, reflected their respect for humanity. Naming the 'gate the Circle of Woes suggests a people of compassion, and using the laws to treat another unfairly would not benefit the individual nor their culture.

I agree.

[juggernaut975]

At first I was dreading watching this episode, but now I'm glad I did. I forgot that they compared the things Teal'c did in the service to the Goa'uld to the things Jack did in the service to the U.S. Air Force. And can you be held accountable for the deeds your commanding officer order you to do or in Teal'c's case his god? Although I think their is some rule in the Air Force that says something about being able to disobey an order for something, but I forget.

It depends. There is such a thing as an 'unlawful order', just an example but if a superior officer or a ranking NCO ordered an enlisted to rob a bank or something....the soldier would have to be able to discern 'Hey, THIS doesn't seem right...' and then take the matter up the chain of command.

With Teal'c and Jack....they're both long-term, seasoned military members. In fact, as Apophis' First Prime I'd say that Teal'c has a higher rank than Jack (amongst the Jaffa, compared to Jack's rank of Colonel) and more experience.

The difference here though is that Teal'c has been fed this bill of goods about the Goa'uld since birth. His entire life he's served 'the gods', it was only in his later years as a high ranking Jaffa that he began to doubt and began to contemplate turning on Apophis.

While he was 'following orders' when he was carrying out his duties I'd say that, more importantly here, he was obeying what he thought was his god...that's going to carry a lot more weight than someone who outranks you giving you an order in the US military.


Middle of the road episode for me, not terrible but not great.

Some great insight in to Teal'c's character here....they could have easily dismissed the Cartagoans but, instead, he wished to repay his debt. He couldn't make up for everything that he did but he was determined that HERE, on this world, he would make amends as best he could, even at the cost of his own life.

I REALLY like the fact that Jack went along with this....up until the point that it looked like a lost cause....and then he was still determined to blast their way out of their with Teal'c.

Growing up with Star Trek the way I did, this situation raises all sorts of questions about 'What right do WE to interfere with another society and their legal system? Is it our place to intercede on the behalf of an individual who has committed heinous acts against the people of Cartago? And on a hundred other worlds? Where does our responsibility lie, with the individual or the law, even a law we do not recognize?'

And while those questions are being asked Jack would come in, shoot into the air to scare off the guards and then, quick as a wink, take off with Teal'c right back through the Stargate, no mess, no fuss lol.

It's what makes Stargate, imho, more fun to watch and a more enjoyable franchise than Star Trek.

[poundpuppy29]

Great Teal'c episode and loved Daniel & Jack & Sam

[another scientist]

I really like, that we see Teal'c doubting Apophis' decision so early on and trying to do as little harm as possible, by killing the slowest member of the clan.
It's also nice to see that he is not letting them punish him simply out of honor (though that is definitely part of it) but also because of this massive guilt he feels about his actions.
I always thought of it as a similar situation as that of a former Goa'uld host, unable do do anything against the crimes but still feeling guilty. Sure, he could have rebelled sooner, but that would have only cost him his life and saved no one.

[mathpiglet]

Growing up with Star Trek the way I did, this situation raises all sorts of questions about 'What right do WE to interfere with another society and their legal system? Is it our place to intercede on the behalf of an individual who has committed heinous acts against the people of Cartago? And on a hundred other worlds? Where does our responsibility lie, with the individual or the law, even a law we do not recognize?'

And while those questions are being asked Jack would come in, shoot into the air to scare off the guards and then, quick as a wink, take off with Teal'c right back through the Stargate, no mess, no fuss lol.

It's what makes Stargate, imho, more fun to watch and a more enjoyable franchise than Star Trek.

Actually, I found this episode similar to the season one episode of TNG called "Justice". In that, Wesley Crusher inadventently breaks the law of the world and is condemned to death.