Cor-Ai (115)

[Starscape91]

At first I was dreading watching this episode, but now I'm glad I did. I forgot that they compared the things Teal'c did in the service to the Goa'uld to the things Jack did in the service to the U.S. Air Force. And can you be held accountable for the deeds your commanding officer order you to do or in Teal'c's case his god? Although I think their is some rule in the Air Force that says something about being able to disobey an order for something, but I forget.

[dtheories]

Something O'neil says in this episode.
"The whole concept of Chain of command undermins the concept of free will."
Superior Orders

This was a very interesting read! Thanks for sharing. Judge Bill Dwyer wrote a book on the rule of law and its development over time that was also fascinating.

There were so many storylines condensed into this one ep! My appreciation for the townspeople's application of their law was based particularly on their personal honor; they would not first claim something that was not true, and so, they would only discharge their version of justice based on the harm caused by the victim. The manner in which the young man begged forgiveness for his treatment of Teal'c; the equality among the citizens who revere their elders, but feel strong enough to challenge each other when they feel the laws are being betrayed. Most people quietly whine behind the scenes rather than advocate for what is right - for themselves or another.

Their willingness to fight, even knowing they would be outmanned and outgunned by the Goa'uld, reflected their respect for humanity. Naming the 'gate the Circle of Woes suggests a people of compassion, and using the laws to treat another unfairly would not benefit the individual nor their culture.

And, Hot Damn, Teal'c! Whoa!

[muziqaz]

didn't really enjoy the villagers behaviour.
But as always, timely appearance of jaffa saved the day

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

Not my favourite ep. I found Teal'c to be out of character.

It annoyed me because Teal'c wants to free the Jaffa. Most importantly his son. He can't exactly do that if he's dead now can he. So it annoyed me that he was so willing to die.

[fems]

But Jaffa also have a very strong sense of honor.

[lookupwardsnshare]

Enjoyed the ep but not one of my favs. It was very character driven especially for Teal'c. Not only do we see Teal'c's honor but I think he realizes that he more than a member of SG-1 but that the team considers him a friend and will stick by him no matter what and willing to do what ever to save him.

There were so many storylines condensed into this one ep! My appreciation for the townspeople's application of their law was based particularly on their personal honor; they would not first claim something that was not true, and so, they would only discharge their version of justice based on the harm caused by the victim. The manner in which the young man begged forgiveness for his treatment of Teal'c; the equality among the citizens who revere their elders, but feel strong enough to challenge each other when they feel the laws are being betrayed. Most people quietly whine behind the scenes rather than advocate for what is right - for themselves or another.

Their willingness to fight, even knowing they would be outmanned and outgunned by the Goa'uld, reflected their respect for humanity. Naming the 'gate the Circle of Woes suggests a people of compassion, and using the laws to treat another unfairly would not benefit the individual nor their culture.

I agree.

[juggernaut975]

At first I was dreading watching this episode, but now I'm glad I did. I forgot that they compared the things Teal'c did in the service to the Goa'uld to the things Jack did in the service to the U.S. Air Force. And can you be held accountable for the deeds your commanding officer order you to do or in Teal'c's case his god? Although I think their is some rule in the Air Force that says something about being able to disobey an order for something, but I forget.

It depends. There is such a thing as an 'unlawful order', just an example but if a superior officer or a ranking NCO ordered an enlisted to rob a bank or something....the soldier would have to be able to discern 'Hey, THIS doesn't seem right...' and then take the matter up the chain of command.

With Teal'c and Jack....they're both long-term, seasoned military members. In fact, as Apophis' First Prime I'd say that Teal'c has a higher rank than Jack (amongst the Jaffa, compared to Jack's rank of Colonel) and more experience.

The difference here though is that Teal'c has been fed this bill of goods about the Goa'uld since birth. His entire life he's served 'the gods', it was only in his later years as a high ranking Jaffa that he began to doubt and began to contemplate turning on Apophis.

While he was 'following orders' when he was carrying out his duties I'd say that, more importantly here, he was obeying what he thought was his god...that's going to carry a lot more weight than someone who outranks you giving you an order in the US military.


Middle of the road episode for me, not terrible but not great.

Some great insight in to Teal'c's character here....they could have easily dismissed the Cartagoans but, instead, he wished to repay his debt. He couldn't make up for everything that he did but he was determined that HERE, on this world, he would make amends as best he could, even at the cost of his own life.

I REALLY like the fact that Jack went along with this....up until the point that it looked like a lost cause....and then he was still determined to blast their way out of their with Teal'c.

Growing up with Star Trek the way I did, this situation raises all sorts of questions about 'What right do WE to interfere with another society and their legal system? Is it our place to intercede on the behalf of an individual who has committed heinous acts against the people of Cartago? And on a hundred other worlds? Where does our responsibility lie, with the individual or the law, even a law we do not recognize?'

And while those questions are being asked Jack would come in, shoot into the air to scare off the guards and then, quick as a wink, take off with Teal'c right back through the Stargate, no mess, no fuss lol.

It's what makes Stargate, imho, more fun to watch and a more enjoyable franchise than Star Trek.

[poundpuppy29]

Great Teal'c episode and loved Daniel & Jack & Sam

[another scientist]

I really like, that we see Teal'c doubting Apophis' decision so early on and trying to do as little harm as possible, by killing the slowest member of the clan.
It's also nice to see that he is not letting them punish him simply out of honor (though that is definitely part of it) but also because of this massive guilt he feels about his actions.
I always thought of it as a similar situation as that of a former Goa'uld host, unable do do anything against the crimes but still feeling guilty. Sure, he could have rebelled sooner, but that would have only cost him his life and saved no one.

[mathpiglet]

Growing up with Star Trek the way I did, this situation raises all sorts of questions about 'What right do WE to interfere with another society and their legal system? Is it our place to intercede on the behalf of an individual who has committed heinous acts against the people of Cartago? And on a hundred other worlds? Where does our responsibility lie, with the individual or the law, even a law we do not recognize?'

And while those questions are being asked Jack would come in, shoot into the air to scare off the guards and then, quick as a wink, take off with Teal'c right back through the Stargate, no mess, no fuss lol.

It's what makes Stargate, imho, more fun to watch and a more enjoyable franchise than Star Trek.

Actually, I found this episode similar to the season one episode of TNG called "Justice". In that, Wesley Crusher inadventently breaks the law of the world and is condemned to death.

[hlndncr]

I have to admit that I didn't really care for this episode. I thought is was rather average. But rewatching it I am very moved by CJ's performance. I think it really shows the depth of Teal'c's struggle.

We also get to see Daniel's compassion in truly making Teal'c his friend. Some of Jack's demons come out too.

I really like the Bursa and their society. I agree with Daniel that they have a very lovely existence. Their commitment to not leave anyone behind would really resonate with the team.

I also find their justice system interesting. It is not unreasonable or unprecedented in history, as Daniel points.

[jlovette]

Two things I liked:

1) Jack and Hammond's debate over the definition of war criminals and whether or not to save Teal'c, and

2) "We would appreciate that." Halas's (sp?) response to Jack's offer of future help against the Goa'uld. It seems to me that many times we see others stubbornly refuse help or have their own, better way. it was nice to see Earth could actually help someone. I'm sure it happens in other episodes, but it stood out to me here.

Other than that, an okay episode.

[chaddergate]

didn't really enjoy the villagers behaviour.
But as always, timely appearance of jaffa saved the day

[Jae'a]

My LiveJournal post

[jckfan55]

Two things I liked:

1) Jack and Hammond's debate over the definition of war criminals and whether or not to save Teal'c,

I think it was important for the show to deal with Teal'c's past and whether he could be redeemed by his current and future actions against the goa'uld.

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

Once again, another yawn episode. Forgot to mention this, but in "Hathor," Hammond lost a layer of clothing.

At least it gets better. Next week, we enter the home stretch of Season 1. Many strong episodes.

[Noxbait]

I think it was important for the show to deal with Teal'c's past and whether he could be redeemed by his current and future actions against the goa'uld.

Agreed. Excellent point.


Wow. Honestly, I love this episode. It is powerful. Especially the part where Jack is talking to Teal'c alone after the first part of the trial. Some excellent and powerful dialogue and emotions displayed in that scene, and the whole episode. Just wow. I really liked seeing the emotional tormented side of Teal'c. I mean, he's this big strong warrior all the time and acts like nothing bothers him, but yet here he "loses" it and shows how very torn up he is inside over what he's done

Wow. Love the part where Jack is questioning Daniel in order to help Teal'c. Again, some powerful stuff.

I also liked the other parts between Daniel and Jack where Daniel is going in one direction, and Jack's not quite on the same page. Some good banter and conflict. Jack is so focused and firm in that he is NOT going to let anything happen to Teal'c, reminds me of Thor's Hammer where he won't leave Teal'c. Also, Daniel's passionate speech and defense of Teal'c was great. I love the strong loyalty among the team even now, still rather early in the series. I love Jack's firm disagreement with Hammond as well. He was tough as nails and really pushing hard. Wow, I love tough Jack. He is the best friend you could hope to have!

I also thought it was interesting and cool how Daniel said he agreed with Jack and wasn't going to let Teal'c die. He was initially all about doing it the way of the culture and respecting their wishes and culture, but he changed sides eventually. I'm not sure how many other times he did that, but I like that he was very reasonable about it.

Nice ending all around. Aw, love the end with Jack putting his hand on Teal'c's shoulder. Maybe it took till this moment for Teal'c to really feel a part of the team and the Tau'ri, building on the foundations of CotG and Thor's Hammer. This would have been a nice culture to visit again, since they were accepting of future relations and assistance and we left on a good note.

[Krisz]

Another episode that passing time has mellowed my view of. The discussions of the distasteful things that Jack and Teal'c have done under orders were good scenes between the two. Lovely reasoning argument from Daniel. I didn't find this episode so boring this time round because I actually enjoyed the moral arguments about taking responsibility for one's actions. Teal'c wanted so much to find some peace from the agony of living with what he'd done. It haunts him always, and that makes him the great friend and advocate for justice.

Summed up nicely with this.....

HANNO: You would save those who wish to kill you?
TEAL'C: I would save those who deserve to live.

[LeftHandedGuitarist]

Great episode, I thought. Some good and meaty scenes between characters that allows the actors to be pushed. Really enjoyed the scenes with Jack and Gen Hammond, and pretty much all the stuff with Teal'c. It's let down by a convenient ending with the Jaffa attacking, and therefore allowing Hanno to have his change of heart in the closing minute. Far too simple.

The courtroom scenes are good fun although they feel very "set up" for lack of a better term. The way the crowd would react with their shocked murmurs after every sentence SG-1 would say got annoying very quickly!

RATING: 7.5 out of 10

[Matt G]

Another Sunday afternoon, another ep of SG1

1. I'm with the argument that the Byrsa were staying near the Stargate as an attempt to "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

2. As Saquist said, rewatching this I came to my own opinion regarding Nuremburg. Then again, Jack's priority was to get Teal'c out alive and was going to use any argument going.

3. Plus the fact that he himself did "damn distasteful things"...therefore he couldn't condemn Teal'c without looking at himself in the mirror.

4. Still, the Byrsa were petty idiots, they would have flat tyred the wider fight vs the Goa'uld to avenge one man?

Certainly an interesting one.