Exile on Main St (601)

[Heaven]

thanks for clearing this up then

[starg8fans]

wow calm down people. no need to crucify
I don't hate this, I love this show
every show has ups and downs, I'm just expressing my displease with the recent episode because I thought it was boring
I'm sure any of you can think of at least one episode you didn't quite enjoy

keep in mind that I don't read spoilers.and I was anticipating more in the premiere

Sorry, but your posts sounded too much like you just wanted to flame the show. There are quite a few people here who were underwhelmed with this season premiere, but we all found something positive to say about it as well. You know, shades of grey, not just black and white. And of course you're entitled to your opinion, but 'boring' is not something I would associate with this ep or Spn in general.

spoiler tag dude!

better question is why Samuel? why not mommy and daddy (are they even in heaven?)

That is a good question. And it makes me think more than ever that Samuel is not what he seems to be, maybe something that would be incapable of faking the emotions that would be associated with the boys being reunited with their parents. I mean, let's face it, Samuel has come across as one hard nosed SOB.

That was my opinion, not a fact. Why would they not show angels or demons again? No need for spoiler tags.

It's an educated guess, especially since the issue of Bobby's soul is not resolved yet. It would be very OOC for this show if it left a thread like that hanging.

[Crichiel]

Sorry, but your posts sounded too much like you just wanted to flame the show. There are quite a few people here who were underwhelmed with this season premiere, but we all found something positive to say about it as well. You know, shades of grey, not just black and white. And of course you're entitled to your opinion, but 'boring' is not something I would associate with this ep or Spn in general.

Also because you got on here not once, but twice, to say basically the same thing.

Say, did anyone else think the neighbour guy (Sid?), seemed like kind of an odd friend choice for Dean to hang out with? I know he was the next door neighbour, so maybe they became friends through proximity. But still, he didn't seem like the type of person even a domesticated Dean would go to the bar with. *shrugs*

[starg8fans]

Also because you got on here not once, but twice, to say basically the same thing.

Say, did anyone else think the neighbour guy (Sid?), seemed like kind of an odd friend choice for Dean to hang out with? I know he was the next door neighbour, so maybe they became friends through proximity. But still, he didn't seem like the type of person even a domesticated Dean would go to the bar with. *shrugs*

Now that you mention it - you're absolutely right. I can only imagine that he was the kind of person who talks a lot and therefore didn't ask too many questions. I mean, he said it himself, it took him almost a year to realize he didn't know anything about Dean.

[warrior_chic]

Also because you got on here not once, but twice, to say basically the same thing.

Say, did anyone else think the neighbour guy (Sid?), seemed like kind of an odd friend choice for Dean to hang out with? I know he was the next door neighbour, so maybe they became friends through proximity. But still, he didn't seem like the type of person even a domesticated Dean would go to the bar with. *shrugs*

He did seem a little weird for Dean, but maybe so he could be a redshirt. And I also don't see Dean going out to find friends, so he probably just started with whoever was closest.

[SheppAddictedFangirl]

All right, I'll be the lone voice of dissent here. I kept my mouth shut on the Swan Song thread (except to express my displeasure at the ep in general ) because I didn't want to be the buzzkill. But if I do that everytime I am unhappy, I am worried with the way the last four eps have gone that I won't be able to post much.

WARNING: I am really really REALLY going to lay into the episode here. So, if that bothers you, go ahead and skip this entire post. If it doesn't bother you, feel free to read, and if you disagree, I totally understand and respect that, and would love to hear couterpoints. But PLEASE don't flame me, I am just expressing my opinion.

Spoiler:

First and foremost: Lose. The. Campbells. I wasn't happy with this development since it first got spoilered.

While I like the time travel episodes in general, I was never happy with the idea that Mary came from a hunting family. For one thing, I liked the idea of Mary (and John) being totally innocent and unaware of the hunting world and being thrust into it when it come out of nowhere. Sam and Dean are no longer special, doing a job that no one else can or will do. With all these hunting Campbells, you've taken the thing that defines Sam and (especially Dean), and made them....common. Not only are they not unique in the world, they aren't even special within their own family! There are relatives coming out left and right, all of whom were brought up in the business and (at this point) being portrayed as superior in hunting to Sam and Dean. They are tougher, more knowledgeable, been doing it longer...yada yada yada. They are making Sam and Dean come off as ineffective amateurs. I thought TPTB said they learned their lesson with Bela. Don't bring in new characters that are going to make your heroes look weak or stupid.

Which brings me to Dean's emasculation. He seemed WAY too comfortable living the suburban lifestyle. I mean, whatever the circumstances, this is still Dean we are talking about, right? Or maybe not. Aside from the one snide comment that it's "almost like I'm a professional", he sure didn't come off as our hero in this episode. He's THAT rusty after a YEAR?!! Give me a break. Sam was out for years at Stanford and had no problem getting back into the swing of things. (He had to adjust to the emotion of hunting again, but he was still good at the actual hunting, starting with the pilot). Of course, Sam wasn't that wonderful either. Sam couldn't take out one Djinn in a fight? Grandpa had to save him? Which then gives Sam the chance to go save Dean, because Dean isn't strong enough to fight either.

Which leads to Sam and his complete loss of emotion. There's character progression, and then there is just character change. And I know, I know, it's early. This is probably some residual stuff from his time in hell...which is ANOTHER sticking point with me. Why does everyone think Sam's time in hell would have been worse with Dean's. I never understood that. Sam was in hell for what? A few days? A week? So, in hell-time a year or two? And he was in the cage battling Michael. A battle, which to me implies give and take. Dean had THIRTY years of being powerless, strung up on the rack tortured, with no way to fight back until those last 10 years. Sounds a little worse to me.

Back to Grandpa Winchester. "You're a Campbell." I'm sorry, I fell in love with these WINCHESTER brothers. They were raised by John, you guys just showed up. That's like a birth parent showing up and telling the kid they're adopted family isn't their 'real' family, blood is more important (which isn't even a convincing argument because they ARE also Winchesters by blood). "Stick around, I'll show you things your daddy never even dreamed of."? Sure, why not? Let's take another of the show's coolest, most beloved characters, John, and say how flawed he was as a hunter as well.

Couple other nitpicks as long as I'm at it : I thought Sam and Dean's reunion was so stiff and...boring. Even from the clip that was released ahead of time, I could tell immediately that the YED was either dream/hallucination something, the soft rock song at the beginning? I know it highlighted Dean's new life, but it's the season premiere, for criminy's sake, I want the usual "get psyched" AC/DC of past years. The boring song just capped off a boring episode. Sam, a new Dodge Charger? Really? If you are going with a Charger, at least go for the Dukes of Hazard era one! And finally, where was the humour?!! There was, what, like 3 sarcastic lines?

Ok, what DID I like? Give me a second......No, I DID like the new title card. Dream or not, I LOVE Fred Lehne's YED, so i was happy to see him. I did like that they didn't SORAS (Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome) Ben. They used the same actor, so he was the correct age. I liked Dean's relationship with Lisa. I, surprisingly, have always thought that they are a great match. She's strong enough to handle him. I liked going back to the Djinn. I loved Bobby in this episode. He at least is still the character I fell in love with.

And that's the crux of my complaints with this episode, I think the STORY had to going in a new direction after the apocalypse, but I disagree that the CHARACTERS had to. I fell in love with a show about 2 brothers. Dean, who was cocky, funny, and a scary-good hunter, with a lot of supressed emotion. Now this is a family guy, who isn't confident, isn't funny, and can't hunt worth a d***. Sam who was sweet, sympathetic, and a really good hunter, but one who didn't do it mindlessly, he wouldn't blindly kill Lenore just because she was a vampire. Now, he is cold, apathetic, and a better hunter than Dean, but not as good as The Amazing Campbells, but will kill mindlessly and needs DEAN to ground him. These are completely different people than the ones I loved watching each week. Even before I watched this show regularly, when I caught it here and there, I thought the stories and characters were wonderful (it was just too scary or confusing to watch). If I had seen this episode without knowing the show, I would have said, "Meh." And not have watched another one.

Fortunately, I DO know this show. And I will absolutely give them time to unfold the seasonlong story before final judgement. For the last 3 episodes of last season, I could see this heading in a direction I wasn't thrilled with. But everyone kept saying, "Have faith, have faith. I have faith because they have never disappointed us before." They did disappointed me last year, but I did have faith, I DO have faith. I am not giving up on the show, I'm not going to stop watching, I am fully aware that we can't tell what's going to happen from the first episode and that there COULD be an overall grand plan that turns out to be awesome in the end. But right now, I am not impressed. (And for the record, I don't blame Sera, or the fact that Kripke is gone. I was angry at Swan Song when Eric was still around full-time). But again, I seem to be the sole voice of dissent. The show can't please everyone and from what you guys have said, you're all very pleased. So, unfortunately in this case, I'm the one who isn't going to be pleased. What a bummer.

So sorry to buzzkill. I just had to vent it all once (especially since I was carrying this feeling all summer). I now return you to your regularly scheduled, Happy Supernatural Obsessed Crichiel. * she says as she scarily reaches for the 'submit reply' button in fear of what everyone's going to do to her when they read this...*

You´re not alone. I wasn´t really thrilled with the episode either. Haven´t watched the full ep, because my old computer crashed during the middle, but I wasn´t really eager to start it up again either. Which is a shame, since I really used to love the show. The introduction of Adam soured it for me, SWAN SONG ruined it, I´m afraid.

I did think they would pick up again, and maybe they will. I agree with almost everything you just said, except one: I thought their reasons for NOT telling Dean that Sam was out (and safe and sound) sucked! Especially since both, Bobby and Sam still knew the hell-on-Earth that Sam was going through when Dean was the one stuck in hell. For far longer (as Crichiel pointed out).

How does everyody expect Dean to just enjoy the apple-pie life Sam told him to live, while it´s always running in the back of his mind that his brother suffers through agony and torture? Sam himself wasn´t able to let it all go, and he was told basically the same by Dean before his time ran out. As Dean said, "If anyone could relate...".

Well, nice going of the gang to let Dean in the belief that his brother is suffering eternal torture while he´s out and about with his long-lost family. That really didn´t sit right with me and none of their arguements helped their case, I´m afraid.

That said, I´m curious how the whole "Grandpa is back" plan will play out, so I will stay tuned for future eps.

[LtColCarter]

Good episode...I did enjoying seeing the brothers back in action, but IDK...I felt the episode was lacking something. I can't quite place what it was missing...just a feeling. But I did enjoy it.