Telford's torture illegal in U.S.?

[KEK]

Yep. Totally tired of people freaking out about the toture. Litterally, the thought of it being morally wrong or fans throwing a fit about the scenes didn't even cross my mind when watching Subversion....

Then again I live for the toture scenes in 24..... Guess i just like to see the bad guys suffer...

In all honesty, if toture saves innocent lives... is it really that bad?

The problem is, it doesn't. The idiotic ticking time bomb scenarios you see in 24 don't happen in real life.

[hedwig]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I do think various segments of our government would resort to torture if it got them the information they wanted. It just isn't talked about, and when it is, it usually gets blamed on subordinates rather than higher ups. In this case, I'm not sure I would call what's happening to Telford at the end of last episode "torture". What happened to Rush at the hands of Kiva & Co. is torture, even though they obviously have a different code of conduct to go by. They don't hesitate to kill people if they merely offend somebody; they don't hesitate to use the strongest kind of force and torture to get what they want. So far, Young hasn't done anything like that (though some might think stranding Rush on that other planet could be defined as torture). I'm sure our government has deprived prisoners of food and water to get them to talk, and I would consider that torture. Solitary confinement in a tiny cell could be considered torture.

All that to say, yes, I do believe our government would resort to torture.

[wargrafix]

Not really, especially when dealing with pow’s, they don’t have any respect for you, since they were just fighting you. It’s worse with traitors, Telford had so much for the SGC he betrayed them all. And that doesn’t leave them with much carrot to go with, Telford will be charged with treason, a crime that if convicted of, carries the death penalty under US military law, so they can’t offer him much.

Interrogations work best when you apply the right technique to the right situation, and carrot techniques can happily work with civilians or conscripts, it has bugger all effect against those who are ideologically committed to opposing you.

tsun tsu would whole heartily disagree.

[knowles2]

The problem is, it doesn't. The idiotic ticking time bomb scenarios you see in 24 don't happen in real life.

An you know that for certain, not a single life in about 5,000 years that torture been around, in fact it probably been longer than that, even by chance it would have save lives for someone, through not neccessary for the side that was doing the torture Saddam learnt a lesson there. An the CIA learnt it a few months ago.

No it not idiotic to think out agents sometimes work to a time table, there probably are situation where people are up against the clock.
For instant if you take a high level agent from Al queda alive you probably got a matter of days to get him talking, before Al queda reliese he been capture an change there plans. location of safe house, stashes of weapons, bank accounts an so fourth.

A other one I can think of was in the Falklans war where British agents had only a matter of weeks to plan op to prevent Argentinians agents from buying advance cruise missiles for the jets. A operation which normally would take months if not years.
24 hours is a bit rediculous, but I would not be surprise if there have been case or two where MI6 or CIA had to that much to uncover a plot an put a end to it.

[Commander Zelix]

The Destiny is the Guantanamo Bay of the US Space Army.

[KEK]

An you know that for certain, not a single life in about 5,000 years that torture been around, in fact it probably been longer than that, even by chance it would have save lives for someone, through not neccessary for the side that was doing the torture Saddam learnt a lesson there. An the CIA learnt it a few months ago.

Of course I don't know that for a fact, I can only go by what the experts and numerous studies into the practise say. And they unanimously conclude that torture doesn't yield reliable intel.

No it not idiotic to think out agents sometimes work to a time table, there probably are situation where people are up against the clock.
For instant if you take a high level agent from Al queda alive you probably got a matter of days to get him talking, before Al queda reliese he been capture an change there plans. location of safe house, stashes of weapons, bank accounts an so fourth.

You're missing the point. Even if you do get someone infromation out of him, you have no idea if it's genuine, or even if he knows what you're trying to get him to tell you, and false intel is potentially more dangerous than having none at all. Information procured through torture can't be trusted.

A other one I can think of was in the Falklans war where British agents had only a matter of weeks to plan op to prevent Argentinians agents from buying advance cruise missiles for the jets. A operation which normally would take months if not years.

What has that got to do with torturing information out of someone?

24 hours is a bit rediculous, but I would not be surprise if there have been case or two where MI6 or CIA had to that much to uncover a plot an put a end to it.

I think you've watched too much TV.

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Of course I don't know that for a fact, I can only go by what the experts and numerous studies into the practise say. And they unanimously conclude that torture doesn't yield reliable intel.

You're missing the point. Even if you do get someone infromation out of him, you have no idea if it's genuine, or even if he knows what you're trying to get him to tell you, and false intel is potentially more dangerous than having none at all. Information procured through torture can't be trusted.

What has that got to do with torturing information out of someone?

I think you've watched too much TV.

Well torture is a big term, what is it and when does tough interrogation turn into torture.

[KEK]

Given the context, does it really matter? We're talking about pretty extreme cases here.

[The Mighty 6 platoon]

tsun tsu would whole heartily disagree.

Sun Tzu actually argues, to quote directly from the Art of War

Therefore in chariot fighting, when ten or more chariots have
been taken, those should be rewarded who took the first. Our
own flags should be substituted for those of the enemy, and
the chariots mingled and used in conjunction with ours. The
captured soldiers should be kindly treated and kept.

This is called, using the conquered foe to augment one’s own
strength.

The enemy’s spies who have come to spy on us must be sought
out, tempted with bribes, led away and comfortably housed.
Thus they will become converted spies and available for our
service.

But Sun Tzu is a 6th century BC Chinese philosopher, who dealt with feudal kingdoms, where defeated subjects would swear loyalty to new rulers, that was part of the way of life. Sun Tzu does not anticipate and does not deal with ideological warfare, which works in a totally different way to warring feudal states that culturally and ideologically are the same.

Sun Tzu also states

According as circumstances are favourable, one should modify
one’s plans.

Situations and times change. Warfare is not the same as it was in Sun Tzu's time, and it is just as important to adapt to meet the changing nature of warfare, something Sun Tzu himself noted.