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  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Destiny must have self repair.

    Destiny must have self repair, otherwise, it simply would no longer be functional. Obviously, given the holes in the outer hull, the self repair currently is not working. Obviously, given the holes in the hull, the ship is not impervious to damage. Obviously, in the million(s) of years Destiny has been autonomously operating, not all damage would have been superficial without affecting critical systems. You must assume that on an unmanned mission, self repair is a high priority system. Given that the engines and shields are still functional, you must assume that the self repair has not been out of operation for very long (only a few hundred years at most).

    So the question is, why isn't Destiny's self repair system working? It seems there are only a few choices:

    The self repair broke down.
    Someone or thing disabled/destroyed the self repair.
    The self repair ran out of some critical resource, but is still operational.

    On an unmanned mission, it is my opinion that self repair is the highest priority system; so the repair system would repair itself first regardless of any other damage to the ship. I say this because, without repair ability, the rest of the systems would soon become inoperable. Further I would say that the system would be both well protected, and redundant, so some random event is very unlikely to destroy it, but leave the rest of the ship intact.

    Repair implies manufacturing, so if it ran out of something, it would have to be some externally harvested resource, and not anything like repair bots.

    Why isn't Destiny repairing itself?

    The two most likely theories in my mind:

    1. Someone boarded Destiny and turned it off.

    2. During a trip across a void, Destiny ran out of power for FTL and raw materials for repairs (ore, minerals, stuff like that). It shut down all the systems it could, cannibalized what it could, and continued to repair what it could, but drifting for thousands or millions of years with no asteroids or gas clouds or planets to harvest materials from, there was eventually a critical failure that it could not fix. This would have to be a recent thing, a few hundred years or perhaps a thousand at most.

    Perhaps most of Destiny's time has been spent in powerless drift across some great void?

  2. #2
    First Lieutenant tjoflojt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    2. During a trip across a void, Destiny ran out of power for FTL and raw materials for repairs (ore, minerals, stuff like that). It shut down all the systems it could, cannibalized what it could, and continued to repair what it could, but drifting for thousands or millions of years with no asteroids or gas clouds or planets to harvest materials from, there was eventually a critical failure that it could not fix. This would have to be a recent thing, a few hundred years or perhaps a thousand at most.

    Perhaps most of Destiny's time has been spent in powerless drift across some great void?
    I agree with everything, exept this. If there was even the slightest chance that it was going to run out of gas in between galaxies, it would have stopped at the nearst star to refuel.


    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by IMDB
    Revealing mistakes: Throughout the series, the IDC is received by the SGC before the wormhole has been established.
    Hehe

  3. #3
    Lieutenant Colonel
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    you have to remember it WASNT meant to be unmanned for this long, the ancients just never got around to getting to it. and those robots are there to make repairs

  4. #4
    Staff Sergeant AquaGamer53's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Perhaps, after Destiny sustained so much damage, the self repair only repairs mission critical areas. Like keeping the gate room and the control interface room pressurized. I think it's likely that after so many repairs, Destiny would have had to only make essential repairs, just enough to keep it operational for whatever its mission is.

  5. #5
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    you have to remember it WASNT meant to be unmanned for this long,
    People keep saying that, like it is some kind of axiom of the physical universe.

    What episode is it, where the Ancients appear and tell people this?
    Last edited by kwlafayette; May 26th, 2010 at 11:10 AM.

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjoflojt View Post
    I agree with everything, exept this. If there was even the slightest chance that it was going to run out of gas in between galaxies, it would have stopped at the nearst star to refuel.
    Eventually, if you go in a straight line for long enough, even fully fueled will not be enough to make the next galaxy. The universe is not a collection of evenly distributed galaxies.

    PS. Also, Destiny would never run out of gas. If it did not have enough to sustain FTL the entire way, you have to assume that Destiny would always reserve enough fuel to power on the shields for refueling once momentum carried it the rest of the way.
    Last edited by kwlafayette; May 26th, 2010 at 11:09 AM.

  7. #7
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by AquaGamer53 View Post
    Perhaps, after Destiny sustained so much damage, the self repair only repairs mission critical areas. Like keeping the gate room and the control interface room pressurized. I think it's likely that after so many repairs, Destiny would have had to only make essential repairs, just enough to keep it operational for whatever its mission is.
    So you subscribe to some sort of limited resource theory then. That there is something that limits the number of repairs Destiny can make. Plausible, some systems/areas of the ship may be at very low priority.

  8. #8
    First Lieutenant Ed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Well there is a limit to how many times you can repair something no exceptions it gets a bit worse every time

  9. #9
    Colonel Spimman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    Eventually, if you go in a straight line for long enough, even fully fueled will not be enough to make the next galaxy. The universe is not a collection of evenly distributed galaxies.

    PS. Also, Destiny would never run out of gas. If it did not have enough to sustain FTL the entire way, you have to assume that Destiny would always reserve enough fuel to power on the shields for refueling once momentum carried it the rest of the way.
    That would only be true if Destiny weren't following Seeder ships and didn't know where it was going, thus it can go in any direction to get where it needs in a direction that is within it's range! Why would you assume it is going in a straight line?
    <a href=http://s6.photobucket.com/user/spimman/media/Sig1_zps2497bbad.jpg.html target=_blank><a href=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/spimman/Sig1_zps2497bbad.jpg target=_blank>http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...ps2497bbad.jpg</a></a>

  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    They said at the beginning of the series that Destiny was traveling in a relatively straight line. That is where I am getting it from.

    The ability to repair implies the ability to manufacture. For example, the way you repair a bearing is that you replace the part. Regardless of how long the Ancients may or may not have intended Destiny to be out there unmanned, we can assume that it is some large period of time. During a large period of time, many parts, that you could not predict before hand, would need replacement, and many systems would need repair. So, instead of trying to stock some large number of likely parts, you have the ability to make the parts as you need them.

    PS. And even, manufacture whole replacement systems.
    Last edited by kwlafayette; May 26th, 2010 at 01:20 PM.

  11. #11
    Major Puddle-Jumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    I really don't get the logic in the OP claming that Destiny must have auto repair systems, we've never seen anything to really indicate that, aside from the robot which as we saw in sabotage needed to be programmed to repair things, and was in storage.

    The ship wasn't intended to be unmanned for this length of time, remember that, not to mention the ship has an incredible powerful shield, which even now with only a fraction of the available power reserves is capable of flying into a sun, and defending its self to alien attacks... Destiny tends to spend the majority of its time in FTL, possible all of its time (bar refuelling) before the crew boarded..

    For all we know 90% of the damage that destiny has is from one encouter with a particularly advanced alien race 10 years ago and the rest is just wear and tear, and the blues shooting at it.
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  12. #12
    Lieutenant Colonel xxxevilgrinxxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    People keep saying that, like it is some kind of axiom of the physical universe.

    What episode is it, where the Ancients appear and tell people this?
    people keep saying it because it's so

    Air 2:
    RUSH: Destiny.

    (Nearby, Brody and Park look at him in confusion.)

    WALLACE: As in ours?

    RUSH: The name of the ship, translated from Ancient.

    (Eli stands and walks over to the console.)

    RUSH: I've also discovered that they were never here.

    WALLACE: I thought this was an Ancient ship.

    RUSH: It *is*, but they sent it out unmanned, planning to use the Gate to get here when it was far enough out into the universe. But they probably learned to ascend before that time.

    WALLACE: Learned to *what*?



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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    I understand, so Rush is the Ancient you quote, when you say the Ancients never intended Destiny to be unmanned for so long. Glad I have that straight, and you weren't just using the speculation of some human.

    Simply the fact that the ship is still operational, after the vast amount of time it has been out in space, should tell you that it has self repair systems. They have found other unmanned ancient vessels, and none of them have been operational, even after fractions of the time Destiny has been out there.

    PS. The ONLY way you could say that the Ancients never intended Destiny to be unmanned for so long, is if Rush had said something like "the database says the Ancients intended to gate here after 50,000 years, when Destiny had reached <location>". There are only two pieces of information in the dialogue you quote; the name of the ship, and that the Ancients were never there. All else is speculation on Rush's part.
    Last edited by kwlafayette; May 26th, 2010 at 04:09 PM.

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel xxxevilgrinxxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    I understand, so Rush is the Ancient you quote, when you say the Ancients never intended Destiny to be unmanned for so long. Glad I have that straight, and you weren't just using the speculation of some human.

    Simply the fact that the ship is still operational, after the vast amount of time it has been out in space, should tell you that it has self repair systems. They have found other unmanned ancient vessels, and none of them have been operational, even after fractions of the time Destiny has been out there.
    I think that you make an awful lot of assumptions and don't spend nearly enough time paying attention to what's going on. The ancients have left all that information around, in the form of the database that Rush is going through. The proper response when you've been proven mistaken is "oh gee, I didn't see that, thanks" and not a bunch of snark.



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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle-Jumper View Post
    I really don't get the logic in the OP claming that Destiny must have auto repair systems, we've never seen anything to really indicate that, aside from the robot which as we saw in sabotage needed to be programmed to repair things, and was in storage.

    The ship wasn't intended to be unmanned for this length of time, remember that, not to mention the ship has an incredible powerful shield, which even now with only a fraction of the available power reserves is capable of flying into a sun, and defending its self to alien attacks... Destiny tends to spend the majority of its time in FTL, possible all of its time (bar refuelling) before the crew boarded..

    For all we know 90% of the damage that destiny has is from one encouter with a particularly advanced alien race 10 years ago and the rest is just wear and tear, and the blues shooting at it.
    Atlantis had even more powerful shielding, it was truly impenetrable. Yet after only 10,000 years vast sections of the city were flooded and there was lots of damage.

  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by xxxevilgrinxxx View Post
    I think that you make an awful lot of assumptions and don't spend nearly enough time paying attention to what's going on. The ancients have left all that information around, in the form of the database that Rush is going through. The proper response when you've been proven mistaken is "oh gee, I didn't see that, thanks" and not a bunch of snark.
    And yet, you keep insisting that you are right.

    The plain and simple truth is that you do not know what the Ancients intended. I don't know either; the difference between us is that I admit that.

  17. #17
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    It's been demonstrated at several points throughout the franchise that ancient technology is remarkably well built and can stand the test of time with little degradation. At this point there simply isn't sufficient evidence to be claiming that Destiny has an automated self repair system. Any thoughts about such a system are pure conjecture and you're relying on an awful lot of assumptions to try and prove your case.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    Atlantis had even more powerful shielding, it was truly impenetrable. Yet after only 10,000 years vast sections of the city were flooded and there was lots of damage.
    Atlantis' shield was under constant load with no way to recharge it's power source once the ZPMs were exhausted. It was inevitably going to run out of power eventually and fail.

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Colonel xxxevilgrinxxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    And yet, you keep insisting that you are right.

    The plain and simple truth is that you do not know what the Ancients intended. I don't know either; the difference between us is that I admit that.
    This really isn't an argument. It's been stated, in Air 2. What's to argue about unless it's just to argue?



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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazeh View Post
    It's been demonstrated at several points throughout the franchise that ancient technology is remarkably well built and can stand the test of time with little degradation. At this point there simply isn't sufficient evidence to be claiming that Destiny has an automated self repair system. Any thoughts about such a system are pure conjecture and you're relying on an awful lot of assumptions to try and prove your case.



    Atlantis' shield was under constant load with no way to recharge it's power source once the ZPMs were exhausted. It was inevitably going to run out of power eventually and fail.
    That just makes no sense to me. There are a few ancient devices that have been found, that were still operational. Some of them intentionally moth balled, some not. But in all the star gate series, no large complex systems like a ship has ever been found that was unmanned and still operational. You just have no basis to make that statement.

    In fact, on at least two occasions, they found unmanned Ancient star ships, and they were not operational. The only fully operation ones they ever found were manned.

    And once and for all, drop the "I know what the Ancients intended" shtick. You do not know what the Ancients intended. You will not know until Destiny's mission is finally revealed. The first step, is admitting you have a problem.

  20. #20
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    That just makes no sense to me. There are a few ancient devices that have been found, that were still operational. Some of them intentionally moth balled, some not. But in all the star gate series, no large complex systems like a ship has ever been found that was unmanned and still operational. You just have no basis to make that statement.

    In fact, on at least two occasions, they found unmanned Ancient star ships, and they were not operational. The only fully operation ones they ever found were manned.
    I'm fairly certain Atlantis was a large complex system and was for all intents and purposes unmanned. Admittedly it'd only be unmanned for 10,000 years but if you can manage that long without systems failing from wear and tear then you probably know a thing or two about making things to last for the long haul. As for other vessels they've found I seem to recall pretty much all of them had been in battles of one sort or another before being abandoned so would understandably have operational issues.

    The fact remains that the franchise has demonstrated that the Ancients were more than capable of creating technology that could last for a vast number of years with no apparent need for maintenance or repair. There's plenty of justification to make the statement they did purely from the evidence the show has given us.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    And once and for all, drop the "I know what the Ancients intended" shtick. You do not know what the Ancients intended. You will not know until Destiny's mission is finally revealed. The first step, is admitting you have a problem.
    Hmm, i'm sure there's a certain irony to your last sentence. As for what the Ancients intended it seems pretty clear from the evidence the show has given us about the Destiny. Firstly we have the information Rush located in Air Pt 2, then we have the simple fact that if the Destiny was always intended to be a purely unmanned vessel why equip it with a stargate, or the systems necessary to maintain life, or living quarters? Why does it have terminals in a number of locations to allow access to the systems, or a chair control interface? For that matter why is it following behind seeder ships that are planting stargates on habitable worlds? What would be the point in any of that if they'd never intended on boarding the Destiny?

    Edit: Just to go back to your first point about all the unmanned vessels they've found being inoperational, this kinda flies in the face of your argument about self-repair systems. If the Ancients had the technology to incorporate such a system into the Destiny why would they not include it, or an appropriately upgraded version, on thier later vessels? The vessels that were found all had power iirc so unless in each case the self repair system was also damaged then why were the vessels still damaged when they were found? And if the self repair system was damaged in each and every case then it doesn't seem to be very reliable and certainly not something to be counted on.

    Oh, and if this alleged self-repair system is as important as you claim it to be wouldn't you expect there to have been some sort of warning flashing somewhere on a computer terminal when they arrived? I know if I had such a vitally important system I'd make sure it'd be damn obvious if it had failed.
    Last edited by Krazeh; May 26th, 2010 at 05:17 PM.

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