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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
    Was it just me thunking that the Destiny's repair bots have been in storgae until they got busted out to help with the FTL drive going KABOOM?
    Well, the repair bot we saw wasn't capable of doing repairs on it's own, it needed programmed instructions. Unless, the Icarus people haven't figured out the proper way to use it. But even then, what good are repair drones if they are in storage, on an unmanned vessel?

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaMm3r View Post
    Whether or not a ship was repaired centuries or millenia before the series even started would not fall into the latter category, IMHO. We get that it bothers you, but does it detract from the show? No.
    I disagree, it does detract from the show. If there was self repair in operation, that only recently stopped (for whatever reason), then it is a reasonable proposition that Destiny is still there. The alternative is that a divine miracle has happened, and that is just not a good story.

    And Shai Hulud, the robots in the crates, yeah I think you are right about that. Those robots have been in storage the whole time.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    I disagree, it does detract from the show. If there was self repair in operation, that only recently stopped (for whatever reason), then it is a reasonable proposition that Destiny is still there. The alternative is that a divine miracle has happened, and that is just not a good story.
    Alternatively, the ship is just really sturdy. It's not that the main systems have not suffered over time: the power reserves can only reach 40% design capacity, loosing one of the FTL nodes increased "fuel efficiency" by ~5-10% (indicating that they are all probably damaged, just this one worse), etc.

    Remember, the Stargates were able to last ~50 million years, as were the DHD power supplies, so a ship doing the same is not entirely out of the question.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
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    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
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  4. #64
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    yes and we have unobtanium and handwavium in the form of shields and trinium and naquahdah. besides the ship is severely damaged, it barely made the last 4-5 intergalactic trips

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Okay to the OP,

    The ship is heavily damaged, the main systems are still functioning, but no where near their peak efficiency. This is beyond a doubt fact and established canon for the show. If there is an auto repair system. its completely out of commission and has been for some time
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  6. #66
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    I have to throw a bit of a monkey wrench into the "no prior evidence of self-repair" thing.... Replicators anybody??? Yes, I know that is way post-destiny tech, but the ancients DID create self-repairing machines, and got burned very badly by the technology, which is likely why there wasn't any sort of self-repair systems on Atlantis or later ships...

    Now for an example from SGU itself: The Seeder ships. The Seeder ships have automated manufacturing capability. They build stargates!!!! It would be virtually impossible for the seeder ships to continue their mission without being able to harvest resources and self repair.

    We also have some evidence for intelligence in the Destiny computer. It knew where to send the crew for the lime in Air. It knew where to send them for water. Once the repair robot was unpacked and told what repairs needed to be made, the robot completed the repairs on it's own. And we have evidence of manufacturing capability on Destiny: The Kino dispenser. Kinos are obviously disposable resources, and yet the dispenser is always full.

    Now as to why Destiny is in such bad shape... Any self repair that is on the ship has obviously failed. It could be due to lack of resources, it could be due to battle damage. Or it could simply be that the self-repair systems are unable to repair themselves.

    Here is one likely scenario: Over time the Destiny's energy storage system degraded to the point that it could no longer hold a full charge, kinda like the memory effect in NiCd batteries. The storage cells were made to be jettisoned and replaced by spares when their capacity degraded sufficiently, but eventually Destiny ran out of spares. It has to make a particularly large jump between galaxies and has to shut down all systems and run on momentum to carry it across the void. While it's in standby it hits a patch space debris. Maybe a meteor cloud or it glides through a comets tail. Either way the ship takes heavy damage. One of the systems damaged is the self-repair mechanism. The ship continues limping along as best it can.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaMm3r View Post
    Whether or not a ship was repaired centuries or millenia before the series even started would not fall into the latter category, IMHO. We get that it bothers you, but does it detract from the show? No.

    If it makes you feel better, we'll all pretend that some time back the blue aliens found the ship floating dead in space from unrepaired damage. They started to fix it, but as soon as enough core systems came back online, Destiny jumped away on her own to continue the mission the BA didn't know about. Consequently, the aliens are chasing the ship because the BA Captain left his favorite screwdriver aboard and wants it back!
    You know, actually, that is a pretty plausible theory. It would easily explain a lot that has happened so far.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin's_Legacy View Post
    I have to throw a bit of a monkey wrench into the "no prior evidence of self-repair" thing.... Replicators anybody??? Yes, I know that is way post-destiny tech, but the ancients DID create self-repairing machines, and got burned very badly by the technology, which is likely why there wasn't any sort of self-repair systems on Atlantis or later ships...

    Now for an example from SGU itself: The Seeder ships. The Seeder ships have automated manufacturing capability. They build stargates!!!! It would be virtually impossible for the seeder ships to continue their mission without being able to harvest resources and self repair.

    We also have some evidence for intelligence in the Destiny computer. It knew where to send the crew for the lime in Air. It knew where to send them for water. Once the repair robot was unpacked and told what repairs needed to be made, the robot completed the repairs on it's own. And we have evidence of manufacturing capability on Destiny: The Kino dispenser. Kinos are obviously disposable resources, and yet the dispenser is always full.

    Now as to why Destiny is in such bad shape... Any self repair that is on the ship has obviously failed. It could be due to lack of resources, it could be due to battle damage. Or it could simply be that the self-repair systems are unable to repair themselves.

    Here is one likely scenario: Over time the Destiny's energy storage system degraded to the point that it could no longer hold a full charge, kinda like the memory effect in NiCd batteries. The storage cells were made to be jettisoned and replaced by spares when their capacity degraded sufficiently, but eventually Destiny ran out of spares. It has to make a particularly large jump between galaxies and has to shut down all systems and run on momentum to carry it across the void. While it's in standby it hits a patch space debris. Maybe a meteor cloud or it glides through a comets tail. Either way the ship takes heavy damage. One of the systems damaged is the self-repair mechanism. The ship continues limping along as best it can.
    Very plausible. I definitely think they have hinted that at some point, there was at least one distance to bridge that Destiny could not complete with FTL. Like you say, it would logically calculate the reserve it would need to power up and refuel once it arrived, figure out how long it could stay in FTL and how long it would need to drift, and you laid the rest out pretty well.

    Probably, it was something like a trip between two super clusters, or even between galactic strands. Incidentally, this means that Destiny is far closer than it otherwise would be. I image a few hours at FTL is the equivalent of hundreds or even thousands of years of drift at sublight.

    I really like you theories.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    You know, actually, that is a pretty plausible theory. It would easily explain a lot that has happened so far.
    Except that there is no evidence of prior habitation, no half -finished repairs, no tools or parts laying around, no stranded alien bodies. There's nothing to indicate a surprise exit by Destiny. I just said the BA because of your other theory.

    Now maybe if some other race besides the BA used the gate to get onboard, repair the ship and then cleaned up after themselves, I might buy into my own sarcastic theory. But, that would pretty much mean that some surviving colony of Ancients come aboard to make repairs every now and then, which is a fairly preposterous notion.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaMm3r View Post
    Except that there is no evidence of prior habitation, no half -finished repairs, no tools or parts laying around, no stranded alien bodies. There's nothing to indicate a surprise exit by Destiny. I just said the BA because of your other theory.

    Now maybe if some other race besides the BA used the gate to get onboard, repair the ship and then cleaned up after themselves, I might buy into my own sarcastic theory. But, that would pretty much mean that some surviving colony of Ancients come aboard to make repairs every now and then, which is a fairly preposterous notion.
    Well, it has been mentioned that Ancient tech is quite robust. It could have been long enough ago that the bodies have all turned to dust. It would explain the CO2 scrubbers being all used up.

    Imagine, some time long ago, an alien race finds Destiny drifting, nearly powerless, extensively damaged. They board it, get life support working. Actually live on it for decades, or centuries, slowly gleaning its secrets. Their race advances by leaps and bounds. Then one day, someone repairs the wrong junction (or maybe war between competing factions, and it is deliberate; they know the ship will leave). Perhaps the aliens remained aboard for centuries more, but cut off from the rest of their race? Eventually, leaving their home galaxy far behind. Then one day, they take the chance, and abandon ship on a suitable looking planet, taking everything they can with them. A million years later, we figure out Icarus...

    It actually sounds like another spin off... They should start paying you.

  11. #71
    First Lieutenant Shai Hulud's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by HaMm3r View Post
    Except that there is no evidence of prior habitation, no half -finished repairs, no tools or parts laying around, no stranded alien bodies.
    They, uh, tried jamming something into the shuttle doorway to keep it open long enough to let the person inside get out.
    ^Thats from the transcript of Air Part 2. Seems that someone was trying to fix the shuttle air leak before the Tau'ri got to Destiny. Evidence of prior habitation?
    Bless the Maker and all His Water. Bless the coming and going of Him, May His passing cleanse the world. May He keep the world for his people.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Well, finally managed to see Subversion, despite the fact that the satellite signal kept dropping off. And that I get Internet off the same satellite as I get TV. That was pretty annoying I tell you. Spacecast's online viewing website is so bad that it is actually impressive.

  13. #73
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shai Hulud View Post
    ^Thats from the transcript of Air Part 2. Seems that someone was trying to fix the shuttle air leak before the Tau'ri got to Destiny. Evidence of prior habitation?
    Only if that quote is taken out of context:

    JOHANSEN: They tried jamming something into the shuttle doorway to keep it open long enough to let the person inside get out.

    ARMSTRONG: But it ... it just opens again. Some sort of safety mechanism like an elevator.

    JOHANSEN: Rush says he can't override it.
    In other words, "they" refers to members of the Icarus evacuees.



    Also, if any race had boarded the Destiny at some point in the past, the Icarus evacuees would have suffocated on arrival: the ship (re?)pressurized itself in response to their arrival, but there is only so much air that the ship could carry in reserve. In other words, it seems rather unlikely that the ship had been boarded in the past.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    That is another thing that does not make sense. One door being stuck open is not going to allow all the air in a space ship to escape. It would be designed like a submarine, any area of the ship could be sealed off to prevent the loss of the entire ship. Every room has a door that can seal off that room, every hallway has doors to seal off all or part of the hallway. The ship would be sectioned off such that one door could be closed and it would seal off a whole group of rooms.

    Except for that one super critical door to the shuttle. For some reason, all areas of the ship are open to that door. Not a very good plot device in my opinion.

    Another thing that clearly does not make sense, is how they have not opened and cataloged the contents of every container they have access too. The Ancients clearly left some supplies around, but they just seem to be, for the most part, ignoring them.

  15. #75
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    That is another thing that does not make sense. One door being stuck open is not going to allow all the air in a space ship to escape. It would be designed like a submarine, any area of the ship could be sealed off to prevent the loss of the entire ship. Every room has a door that can seal off that room, every hallway has doors to seal off all or part of the hallway. The ship would be sectioned off such that one door could be closed and it would seal off a whole group of rooms.

    Except for that one super critical door to the shuttle. For some reason, all areas of the ship are open to that door.
    Well, as we can see here (original here), the damaged shuttle (red) is fairly close to the 'Gate room (blue). It is also important to remember that they had just begun exploring the ship, so they might not have found any place to relocate themselves other than in the sections that were connected to the shuttle.




    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    Another thing that clearly does not make sense, is how they have not opened and cataloged the contents of every container they have access too. The Ancients clearly left some supplies around, but they just seem to be, for the most part, ignoring them.
    They found the Ancient spacesuits in "Water" and the robot in "Faith," so they might have just been doing this off-screen.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazeh View Post
    We have never seen any demonstration that the Ancients incorporated automated self-repair systems into any of their vessels.
    You know, this would pretty much guarantee that the seeder ship were no longer in operation. Assuming similar level of technology, same drives and such, the seeder ships would be experiencing all the same problems as Destiny. They too would have "barely made" the last few intergalactic trips. They would have been attacked by all (or at least most of) the same races. Destiny itself was not going to make the last intergalactic trip.

    The inescapable conclusion is, without self repair, some of the seeder ships would already have failed, and the rest would be at least as close to failure as Destiny. You have to assume that the chances of "drifting the rest of the way" when falling short via FTL is not entirely free of risk.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    You know, this would pretty much guarantee that the seeder ship were no longer in operation.
    It does nothing of the sort.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    Assuming similar level of technology, same drives and such, the seeder ships would be experiencing all the same problems as Destiny.
    Who says they're not?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    They too would have "barely made" the last few intergalactic trips.
    You're right they may very well have only barely made the last few trips.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    They would have been attacked by all (or at least most of) the same races.
    I don't see how you can make this statement, there's no evidence for it. Just because one or more races has run across the Destiny doesn't immediately mean they've also run across the seeder ships.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    The inescapable conclusion is, without self repair, some of the seeder ships would already have failed, and the rest would be at least as close to failure as Destiny. You have to assume that the chances of "drifting the rest of the way" when falling short via FTL is not entirely free of risk.
    Some of the seeder ships may have failed, there's no reason to believe that hasn't been the case. I don't recall anywhere in the show where they have confirmed that all the seeder ships are still in operation. As for the remaining ones they probably are just as close to failure as Destiny. However it must also be considered that as purely unmanned vessels the Ancients may very well have completely overengineered them in terms of robustness and redundancy.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    You have to assume that the seeder ships were launched pretty much at the same time as Destiny. Any more than a few decades apart, and you are into a new generation of technology, faster drives, more efficient energy storage, etc.. Also, the ships would have to be huge to store even more power than Destiny, and carry the mining equipment and such necessary to harvest the raw materials.

    Unless of course, the Ancients sent out the indestructible seeder ships with all the raw material they would ever need for the rest of time. As you yourself have pointed out, you have to accept show canon; there has never been any evidence that the Ancients had automated mining vessels.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    You have to assume that the seeder ships were launched pretty much at the same time as Destiny. Any more than a few decades apart, and you are into a new generation of technology, faster drives, more efficient energy storage, etc.. Also, the ships would have to be huge to store even more power than Destiny, and carry the mining equipment and such necessary to harvest the raw materials.
    The show and the creators have already confirmed the seeder ships were sent out in advance of the Destiny and while not giving exact numbers it's been strongly implied they're a considerable distance ahead of the Destiny. As for the size of the seeder ships, firstly who's to say that they're not huge and secondly if they are unmanned then they'll be able to save a huge amount of space that would otherwise be needed for people to live in and the equipment to keep them alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    Unless of course, the Ancients sent out the indestructible seeder ships with all the raw material they would ever need for the rest of time. As you yourself have pointed out, you have to accept show canon; there has never been any evidence that the Ancients had automated mining vessels.
    And there has never been any evidence that the Ancients didn't have automated mining vessels. There's been nothing in any of the franchise series that has shown a situation where an automated mining vessel would be ideal but has then indicated that no such vessel or technology exists. On the other hand numerous examples have been provided of Ancient vessels that would definitely have benefitted from a self repair system yet at no point has it even been hinted at that such a system exists and all indications have been that it doesn't exist.

    That also doesn't take into account SGU implies the seeder ships have some ability to obtain resources to manufacture stargates and that Joseph Mallozi has pretty much confirmed this to be the case.

  20. #80
    First Lieutenant Mike.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Destiny must have self repair.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    As you yourself have pointed out, you have to accept show canon; there has never been any evidence that the Ancients had automated mining vessels.
    Regarding Resource gathering (ie. mining) this was hinted at by Joe Mallozzi several times at least in the case of the seeder ships. The Ancients also had several mining facilities - the mobile drilling platform on Lantea, the compound located on a caldera ("Inferno") and possibly the device Anubis used to overload stargates - it had "roots" that appeared to get energy from within the planet - so there are precedences - the Ancients do have experience in the filed and made use of it when it was deemed appropriate.
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