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science or spiritual? (spoilers for series finale)

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    #16
    Originally posted by Morbo View Post
    so, you missed the point too, then.
    I'll say it again.
    They WERE NOT ALL DEAD THE WHOLE TIME. Everything that happened on the island - HAPPENED. they didn't all get together in dead-church world until they had each died on their own time.
    It wasn't really that hard to understand.
    Jack succeeded in getting them off the island. Hurley & Ben took over controlling the island for who knows how long. Everyone else went and lived their lives.
    what don't you get that some ppl wanted the happy ending in real time!? like, while they were ALL still alive? that's what i wanted, ALL of them getting off the island and ALL of them living to enjoy it. that's my happy ending. :/

    seriously, i get what you're saying, but not everyone sees 'happy ending' the same way.
    sally

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      #17
      Originally posted by majorsal View Post
      what don't you get that some ppl wanted the happy ending in real time!? like, while they were ALL still alive? that's what i wanted, ALL of them getting off the island and ALL of them living to enjoy it. that's my happy ending. :/

      seriously, i get what you're saying, but not everyone sees 'happy ending' the same way.
      Its not just that. They left all answers out and gave us what they thought is what we wanted. I mean wtf writing is that?
      Fuzzy Wuzzy wasnt old,
      Fuzzy Wuzzy gotten bald
      There was Fuzzy no more Wuzzy

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        #18
        Originally posted by tomstone View Post
        Its not just that. They left all answers out and gave us what they thought is what we wanted. I mean wtf writing is that?
        yeah.

        or they left out the answers, b/c they never figured them out for themselves.

        i loved this show. LOVED it. now i don't feel like watching an ep again. i'm just too bummed about it.
        sally

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          #19
          Originally posted by majorsal View Post
          yeah.

          or they left out the answers, b/c they never figured them out for themselves.
          I always thought that, but never expected them to leave it this way. I know they probably never could have explained it all, but they could have tried at least.
          Fuzzy Wuzzy wasnt old,
          Fuzzy Wuzzy gotten bald
          There was Fuzzy no more Wuzzy

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by tomstone View Post
            Its not just that. They left all answers out and gave us what they thought is what we wanted. I mean wtf writing is that?
            The story was mystical from the beginning. You just aren't used to a sci-fi show that isn't highly cynical about religious things. It is near dogma in sci-fi that religion is just unexplained science. In this show, the mystical WAS the explanation. In other words, LOST went where very few have gone before. Appreciate the diversity.

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              #21
              you guys are crazy.

              the show was NEVER about answering the island's mysteries.

              The writers didn't not know their stuff. they knew everything, which is why it was all connected the way it did.
              They didn't give us what they thought we wanted. They gave us a conclusion to THEIR story. THE story. The one about the characters. NOT about the island.

              and if they all got off the island and lived happily ever after -that completely negates the entire point of the show.
              Last edited by Morbo; 06 September 2010, 09:52 AM.

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                #22
                So I just got my set of Lost seasons and I am re-watching them. This thread needs a third category, because it isn't about science or religion. It's about philosophy. The third episode is a Latin term for the nurture side of the nature / nurture philosophical argument (Tabula Rasa). Locke was a philosopher. If you want a sci-fi parallel try B5 ( Chaos Vs Order).

                And you gotta love that first scene with Locke and the Backgammon game. They obviously knew what they were doing from the beginning.

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                  #23
                  Here's what lost is about in one word:

                  With one breath, with one flow
                  You will know
                  Synchronicity

                  A sleep trance, a dream dance
                  A shared romance
                  Synchronicity

                  A connecting principle
                  Linked to the invisible
                  Almost imperceptible
                  Something inexpressible
                  Science insusceptible
                  Logic so inflexible
                  Causally connectible
                  Yet nothing is invincible

                  If we share this nightmare
                  Then we can dream
                  Spiritus mundi

                  If you act, as you think
                  The missing link
                  Synchronicity

                  We know you, they know me
                  Extrasensory
                  Synchronicity

                  A star fall, a phone call
                  It joins all
                  Synchronicity

                  It's so deep, it's so wide
                  Your inside
                  Synchronicity

                  Effect without a cause
                  Sub-atomic laws, scientific pause
                  Synchronicity......

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                    #24
                    Synchronicity is the experience of two or more events that are apparently causally unrelated occurring together in a meaningful manner.

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                      #25
                      yes damon and carlton were inspire by sting. IT'S ALL CLEAR NOW

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Morbo View Post
                        yes damon and carlton were inspire by sting. IT'S ALL CLEAR NOW
                        All these people running into each other in airports. All these overlapping and consequential encounters and concerns. Keep in mind all the names of characters that are based on famous philosophers. And Synchronicity IS a philosophical construct.

                        http://www.fanpop.com/spots/lost/for...on-true-person

                        "there are multiple Lost characters named after famous philosophers, most notably John Locke, Rousseau (named for Jean Jacques Rousseau), Desmond (David Hume), and Mikhail (Mikhail Bakunin).

                        the characters are all similar in some ways to their philosophical counterparts, but Locke is more than the others. interestingly, Locke's father on Lost is named Anthony Cooper. in real life, politician Anthony Cooper was philosopher John Locke's mentor."

                        (and just because Sting studied philosophy doesn't mean he originated the idea of Synchronicity. )

                        Note this chart of Jung, who coined the idea. Notice any parallels to LOST elements?:

                        Last edited by kmiller1610; 01 October 2010, 12:03 AM.

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                          #27
                          From am article on Synchronicity by Allen Stairs in 1998:

                          The shortest description is that it is "meaningful coincidence."

                          I was on my way into the mountains of West Virginia with a woman whom I had been seeing for several months. Our relationship was difficult in many ways and I had a sense that somehow this was a make-or-break weekend. Just after we crossed the West Virginia border, we stopped for gas. I put the nozzle in my tank and cocked the handle to fill automatically, then stood back. While I was watching the display, I thought to myself "Wouldn't it be a bad omen for the relationship if the pump stopped at exactly $13.00?" To my shock, that is what happened. At precisely $13.00, the pump stopped.

                          Here we have an outer event matching an inner state. There is certainly no reasonable possibility that one caused the other. Furthermore, the events took place in an atmosphere of psychological charge; I was anxious, and my thought was an expression of my anxieties. And while it might have been a reasonable guess that it would take somewhere around $13.00 to fill the car, I would have grave doubts about my ability to predict the exact amount any more accurately than to within $.50 either way. In fact, this seems much too optimistic, given that prices change from time to time and location to location and that gas gauges are not precision instruments. I find it very hard to believe that there was a chance greater than one in 100 that I could guess the precise amount it would take to fill the tank. But if an event with that low a probability by chance alone happens in the course of a psychology experiment, one has met the standard for publishing the result as "highly statistically significant."

                          My attitude toward this particular case is one of studied agnosticism. I neither admit nor deny that it is a genuine case of what Jung calls "synchronicity."

                          Why does Jung rule out causal explanations for psi-phenomena? The answer tells us something about his understanding of cause and effect relationships. According to Rhine, his experiments showed that psi effects are not dependent on time nor on distance. Furthermore, Rhine used Faraday cages, which shield the subject from electromagnetic radiation, and the effects persisted.

                          We describe things in a language that has a subject/predicate structure. That means that we talk in terms of things that have properties, but are not the same as their properties. This idea came up in our discussion of Locke and substance. But while this might be how we are constrained to describe things, it not need be how things are in themselves.

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                            #28
                            http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ci...ronicity02.htm

                            Synchronicity suggests that mind and matter, as well as past, present and future exist in a meaningfully connected continuum. It also implies that everyday distinctions concerning self and environment, causality and the belief in linear time are historically specific assumptions rather than absolute truths.

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                              #29
                              Allow me to explain why I am persisting when nobody cares.

                              First of all, as a Sci-Fi fac, I object to binary thinking. Science and Spirituality are only opposites in the minds of those who want them to be opposites.

                              Second of all, I like to get to the bottom of things and think accurately about them. This show is not about science, science fiction or the spiritual. It's a bloody soap opera unfolding in a universe of psychological,para-psychological-philosophical concepts and explorations.

                              Next Source:

                              http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-60054223.html

                              Causality, then, is congruent with a world which is taken as "natural" (i.e., obeying the classical laws of physics, for example) while acausality embodies the principle of discontinuity, or lack of connectedness ("inconstant connection," to use Jung's term). But, as mentioned, the causal world has been constructed from statistical truth, as a result of a "scientific" outlook. Consequently, as rationally-minded human beings we have become conditioned to a scientific world-view, to the effect that causal events are the only events that make sense, while acausal events stultify our reason. Jung proposed the theory of synchronicity as a means of encompassing acausal events into an ordered framework that would offer a more complete picture of our phenomenological world.

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                                #30
                                For six years I loved this show to the point of obsession. The island, the characters, the time travel, the possibility they were all somehow linked - wow, this show rocked.

                                In the last hour of the final episode I discover that the Dharma Inititative, the smoke monster, Walt, Claire and her baby, the dozens of connections between the characters - basically all of the things I loved about the show - meant absolutely nothing. In the end some of them got off the island, and then they all met up later when they died and lived happily ever after together in purgatory. WTF?

                                I am so bitterly disappointed with how the series ended that I never want to watch a single episode of Lost ever again. Even now, months later, I am still so angry that I can hardly put my thoughts into coherrent words.

                                Thank goodness I have discovered Stargate Atlantis to help me to move on.
                                sigpic
                                Thank you to mrscopterdoc for my Ronon sig

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