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    Torture

    The big big thing in this episode that I really, really was unhappy about. First Young is happy to throw out due process, suggesting he'll get an answer out of Telford by any means necessary--and O'Neill appears to be okay with it despite Daniel's objection. And then we've got Kiva prattling on about how she's learned over the years that torture is effective, who is proven right by Rush giving in

    Wow, talk about sending the wrong message
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

    #2
    this is SGU it's supposed to be darker
    https://twitter.com/#!/Solar_wind84

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      #3
      Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
      The big big thing in this episode that I really, really was unhappy about. First Young is happy to throw out due process, suggesting he'll get an answer out of Telford by any means necessary--and O'Neill appears to be okay with it despite Daniel's objection. And then we've got Kiva prattling on about how she's learned over the years that torture is effective, who is proven right by Rush giving in

      Wow, talk about sending the wrong message
      Desperate times, desperate circumstances. I'd stave off torture for as long as possible, but when this many lives (not to mention Destiny itself) are at stake, sometimes morality has to take a backseat to survival.
      Click the banner or episode links to visit the virtual continuations of Stargate!
      Previous Episode: 11x03 "Shore Leave" | Previous Episode: 6x04 "Nightfall" | Now Airing: 3x06 "Eldest"

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        #4
        You can be "dark" without straying to the wrong side of right and wrong.
        "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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          #5
          Originally posted by s09119 View Post
          Desperate times, desperate circumstances. I'd stave off torture for as long as possible, but when this many lives (not to mention Destiny itself) are at stake, sometimes morality has to take a backseat to survival.
          Never. Survival is nothing without morality.
          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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            #6
            Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
            You can be "dark" without straying to the wrong side of right and wrong.
            the power of the darkside is strong
            https://twitter.com/#!/Solar_wind84

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              #7
              Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
              Never. Survival is nothing without morality.
              So you would rather let all of humanity die than torture someone? You essentially killed billions of people because you felt you were "above" a certain action. Where's the morality in that?
              Click the banner or episode links to visit the virtual continuations of Stargate!
              Previous Episode: 11x03 "Shore Leave" | Previous Episode: 6x04 "Nightfall" | Now Airing: 3x06 "Eldest"

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                #8
                Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                You can be "dark" without straying to the wrong side of right and wrong.
                And you call yourself a DS9 fan

                Its kind of cold and under normal circumstances I would never advocate torture but I have to ask myself in Young's mind how many lives can be saved in locating the Lucian Alliance
                Originally posted by aretood2
                Jelgate is right

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                  Never. Survival is nothing without morality.
                  Morality is not absolute. What can be considered immoral in one situation isn't always immoral in other situations.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                    And you call yourself a DS9 fan
                    "in the pale moonlight" being the best example. IMO
                    https://twitter.com/#!/Solar_wind84

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by s09119 View Post
                      So you would rather let all of humanity die than torture someone? You essentially killed billions of people because you felt you were "above" a certain action. Where's the morality in that?
                      Moral high ground. Torture is as wrong as it gets. Right down there genocide, child molestation, and not turning off your cell in the movie theater.

                      Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                      Its kind of cold and under normal circumstances I would never advocate torture but I have to ask myself in Young's mind how many lives can be saved in locating the Lucian Alliance
                      As far as Young knew, one. Rush.
                      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                        #12
                        Morality double standards. Society tells us torture is wrong, against human rights and other humanitarian reasons, but how many of us would not pull a Jack Bauer in Young's situation? He's looking out for his own people, people he's promised to get home. He's collecting on the tolls paid to Charon - blood for blood. He sacrifices a little bit of his humanity, but he's looking out for the lives of 70+ people (counting losses through attrition) who are all far away from prying eyes and beaurocratic crap (except for Camille).

                        Kiva probably has similarly ideallistic visions of why she's torturing Rush, but she's definately bat guano crazy, so I don't know what to say about her...

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                          Moral high ground. Torture is as wrong as it gets. Right down there genocide, child molestation, and not turning off your cell in the movie theater.


                          As far as Young knew, one. Rush.
                          I think he was thinking more then that. The Lucian Alliance went to great lengths to get to Destiny before. They would have no problem killing many continue their efforts
                          Originally posted by aretood2
                          Jelgate is right

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                            Moral high ground. Torture is as wrong as it gets. Right down there genocide, child molestation, and not turning off your cell in the movie theater.
                            So you would absolutely let the rest of civilization burn to keep your hands clean? That's just as sickening as any of the things you listed.
                            Click the banner or episode links to visit the virtual continuations of Stargate!
                            Previous Episode: 11x03 "Shore Leave" | Previous Episode: 6x04 "Nightfall" | Now Airing: 3x06 "Eldest"

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by jelgate View Post
                              I think he was thinking more then that. The Lucian Alliance went to great lengths to get to Destiny before.
                              How could he possibly know that? They had no idea where the 9th chevron went until they got there, and weren't even sure till this episode that it was the Lucian Alliance who attacked Icarus.
                              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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