Hathor (113)

[Ptah]

One thing I don't get is why she even needs to get DNA from Daniel in the first place. Doesn't her host body have DNA?

[Erik Pasternak]

One thing I don't get is why she even needs to get DNA from Daniel in the first place. Doesn't her host body have DNA?

Maybe she can't gain access to it. Or maybe a sample from both genders is required.

[Jarnin]

One thing I don't get is why she even needs to get DNA from Daniel in the first place. Doesn't her host body have DNA?

Not male DNA. If she's going to create a brood to make Jaffa, then she needs male DNA in order to prevent host rejection.

[Ke'ra]

I didn't think she "needed" DNA to make the Goa'uld larva, just to fine tune it to our physiology. Rejection is a good theory. But as far as needing DNA with a Y chromosome, I think she picked a male for convenience and because of her sexuality.

Her larva seemed to be different to others in that they were able to enter a Jaffa stomach pouch earlier than other symbiotes we have seen.

[Dionysus]

I dunno.... If that was a vat of liquid nitrogen Jack tossed her into, then her body splintered into a million pieces when she hit bottom.

That being said, there are almost as many ways to bring 'Hathor' back: clone Hathor, (even-more-)evil twin Hathor, AU Hathor, time travel Hathor, holographic imaging technology Hathor, halucingenic drug-induced Hathor, dream(nightmare?) Hathor, etc.

Just shovel those pieces in a sarcophagus and flip the switch she'll be fine. lol

Any optimism is good optimism when it comes to the possibility of Hathor returning, in my opinion LOLOL

[zats]

Oh, Yeah!!!!!

[whisper99]

First of all daniel was under the influence of a drug that made him want her NOT RAPE if a man got drunk and woke up with a woman he could not charge her with rape (I think)! Man can be raped by women in my opinion thru unwelcome sexual advances.

Ok, I just saw this episode (I LOVE my DVD SETS!! WOOHOO!) Ahem...anyway, when Hathor tells him she needs the code of life, Daniel starts to come out of it because he 'gets' what she is telling him. He actually pulls his arm away to try and get away and she grabs him. At that moment, he is completely aware that she needs his DNA to make baby goa'uld. And he is completely aware of HOW she intends to get it because of her 'enjoyable' comment. His very actions are that of someone who is trying to get away. Remember, this is the Daniel who destroyed an entire vat of infant goa'uld back on Chulak, so there is no way he would want to help create any more of them, enjoyable or not. So, she proceeds to drug him, and and then rapes him.

I like to think that when he's unresponsive when Sam finds him, it's probably not so much the drug as it's him realizing what he's just done. If only because he was able to get dressed (at least pull his pants up) and what happened just hit him. It was a complete violation, not only physically, but emotionally, mentally. It was a terrible thing to have happen to Daniel

Also, I don't know that Jack knew how Hathor got Daniel's DNA - so when he said EW, maybe he was thinking she took a blood sample or something. LOL I would like to think that off camera, there was some form of comfort for Daniel, at least by Sam who would understand that it was more than just a physical violation, since she was there when he killed the baby goa'uld.

[Dani347]

But if the woman got the man drunk without him knowing (spiking his drink or whatever) and shagged him even though he was asking her not to...? It's not like he chose to take the drug. Had he been in his right mind and stronger than her there would have been no sex. Everything that caused the sex to happen was initiated by her and was against his will.

If it isn't rape to make someone want you by drugging them before you do the deed, then how come it's illegal to put rophynol in drinks...?

And, someone confirm if this is true, but I've read that rophynol also makes a person more responsive, so they may act like willing participants. So, it's not even necessary for a person to actually resist, because they're still not performing under full mental capacity.

If it's a drug that [I]made -read forced him to want her, it's rape. He was forced to want her, therefore, it was against his will. And, rape is having sex against your will. Hathor didn't say, "Daniel, I have some great goa'uld power that could make you want me, wanna try it?" that would have given him the opportunity to consent to it. She took away his power to consent or reject (obviously, he had no power, unless we also assume that Jack had the power to refuse becoming a Jaffa, and wanted that) therefore, the drug forced[I] Daniel, he didn't consent, and forced sex (whether the force comes during the act, or before the act) is rape.

[Beatrice Otter]

I dunno.... If that was a vat of liquid nitrogen Jack tossed her into, then her body splintered into a million pieces when she hit bottom.

That being said, there are almost as many ways to bring 'Hathor' back: clone Hathor, (even-more-)evil twin Hathor, AU Hathor, time travel Hathor, holographic imaging technology Hathor, halucingenic drug-induced Hathor, dream(nightmare?) Hathor, etc.

Daughter of Hathor ....

[Beatrice Otter]

The round crystal device on her belly appears to have two functions.
When glowing will cut and cauterise a neat cross section into her new Jaffa's stomach and also appears to be a little door.

Hathor gives birth to a boiling tub of Goa'uld larva and I think these creatures were spawned from behind this device. When Hathor rises out of her boiling tub in one scene, the device on her belly looks like a ring with a gaping hole. When she fully stands up the stone returns to its original place, in effect like a door closing.

Is this a light trick on the camera or intentional?

I think its an optical illusion; it looks just the same to me. Here's my theory on Queen Goa'ulds:

While normal Goa'ulds can have any gender of host they want, queens must be in a female host if they want to spawn. Remember, every time we've seen a queen Goa'uld (or Tok'ra) out of a host and preparing to spawn, they had this huge egg-sac thing that looks really gross.




You can't really see it in these pics, but when you pause the DVD it looks like the sac and the symbiote have a fairly clear dividing line, and that they're attached to each other, not integral components. Well. There's certainly no room inside a human for that huge sac, and in Egeria's case she went from that tank in the first pic straight to a human host. So the egg sac must be detachable. Now, if they don't have an egg sac while in a human host (and certainly, Hathor's trim figure had no room for one!), what do they use instead?

Aha! Human females have an organ that fulfills basically the same function. We call it a womb. So my theory is that the queen just kind of attaches herself and modifies it for her own purposes. This would neatly explain why it was so critical for Amaunet to hibernate while Sha're was pregnant, which otherwise doesn't make sense to me. It would also neatly fit with Hathor's method of procuring the "code of life" from Daniel--everything went where it would have if she'd been a normal human woman, it was just put to a slightly different purpose.

Now, this theory's kinda gross imho, but it fits the facts we have.

[Major Tyler]

One thing I don't get is why she even needs to get DNA from Daniel in the first place. Doesn't her host body have DNA?

Maybe she was just horny.

[Sela]

Daniel....
Hathor....
DNA.....
Eww.

[LMichelle]

You gotta admit Hathor does have good taste in men.

[Sela]

I repeat...Eww.

Poor Daniel...Let's hope as the drug wore out of his system, so did the memory of the ...*ahem*...encounter.

Eww.

[Albion]

Well, I love this episode. Despite the cheesy moments which make me wince and the plot holes you could drive a sarcophagus through. Not to mention the heavyhanded feminism diatribe. (Which is what makes Emancipation a real love/hate fest for me. I love that one to bits too, for the same reasons as Hathor, but the heavyhanded message makes me wince) It just hit all the buttons that I enjoy in my SF. Humour, action, great team moments, character relationship. I love it to bits.

And Hathor was just deliciously evil. And, like Osiris, had so much fun being evil, she was a delight to watch on screen. I thought they made a mistake getting rid of her so early. She had a lot more mileage in her, imo.

BTW, have you noticed that although they act generally as though Sam is unusual in being part of SG1 and in Hathor they make a point of how few females there are on the base, there are a multitude of episodes which contain SG teams with a female member? Spirits for example. And A Matter Of Time. Just to name two. Maybe after Sam's heroics in Hathor, they decided more women was a dang good idea.

One more thing I wanted to just point up re the discussion about Daniel being raped by Hathor. It was an interesting discussion, but I'm not going to get into it. Just regarding the offhand way the others reacted to it - I've always been rather discomfited and surprised by the casual way that Daniel himself dismisses the near rape of the young woman by the caveman at the start of The Broca Divide:

Cut back to the young woman. Unlike her captors, she looks normal, and is positively terrified. Carter notices her, and frowns.

Carter: Why does that one female look different? She looks more human.

One of the cavemen grabs her roughly by the arm, trying to drag her off. She struggles and cries, trying to get away from him.

Carter: We have to stop him!

The caveman pulls the woman down on her hands and knees, moving to mount her from behind. She screams and kicks, clawing at the ground as she tries to get out from under him.

Daniel: No, that's - how prehistoric males probably had sex. Forcibly. The strongest male gets to mate; that's survival of the fittest.

As the woman crawls away from him, the caveman grabs her skirt, trying to tear it off, and grabs her around the waist, forcing her down.

Carter: Well, I call it rape, and I think we should stop it!

What surprises me with this is that Daniel may well be correct on the habits of cavemen. However what he doesn't seem at all to take into account and should that that young woman isn't of that species. She comes from a more intelligent, more advanced evolution of the species with a viewpoint of the existance of rape, which the caveman society doesn't have.

For a female of the caveman's species, the act would be 'no harm done' and Daniel would probably be right to dismiss it as just the typical reproduction act for that species were the caveman's partner to be one of his own tribe.

However, for the female of the Untouched, unlike a female of the caveman's species, the act will be rape with all the connotations of degradation, guilt, possible social sanctions etc that go with it. This is a 'modern' woman being assaulted. Not a primitive one.

So Daniel's callous disregard for the young woman's plight always makes me wince.

Albion