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Thread: Hathor (113)

  1. #41
    Captain Tok'Ra Hostess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Dick
    That wasn't the case in Birthright.Teal'c only allowed Ryac to be implanted with a symbiote because of the boy's illness. Otherwise, the episode seemed to indicate that Ryac could have gone on living without one and suffer no immune system deficiency.
    umm...it was the case in Birthright(season six) The girls lost their own immune system at puberty.

    In season one's Bloodlines, Teal'c thought he could save his son from implantation, only to discover that the youth was dying. Teal'c may have convinced himself that implantation or death was a lie concocted by the Goa'uld. (He'd already proved that the Goa'uld were liars in that flashback in Threshold.)


    It seems that Jaffa only lose immune functions AFTER the larval Gou'ald has been implanted.
    Have you seen season six' Birthright?

    What is not clear, at least to my reckoning, is whether or not Jaffa are actually born with the pouch.
    <nods> It's never been said on the show, thus far, but here's how I see it:

    Among humans only the female can bear young, but female humans are not born with a womb. The numerous components needed to concieve and bear children grows in over time, some parts(the placenta, for example) don't appear until after an egg has been fertilized.

    Just as child-bearing organs are not artificially implanted into females at puberty so that they can thereafter produce children, so too, the Priest does not(IMO) implant the pouch into the Jaffa at puberty so that s/he can thereafter incubate larvae.
    Gracie

    A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
    "In every life there is a terrible fight a fight between two wolves.
    One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
    resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
    confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
    A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
    The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."



  2. #42
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tok'Ra Hostess
    umm...it was the case in Birthright(season six) The girls lost their own immune system at puberty.

    In season one's Bloodlines, Teal'c thought he could save his son from implantation, only to discover that the youth was dying. Teal'c may have convinced himself that implantation or death was a lie concocted by the Goa'uld. (He'd already proved that the Goa'uld were liars in that flashback in Threshold.)
    He seemed pretty sure of himself, and it seems like he'd be one to know. I think it's a continuity error, at the very least (and I'm highly suspect of contradictory information presented in the lamentable 7th season of the show).

    Have you seen season six' Birthright?
    Once. It didn't impress itself upon me very well.

  3. #43
    Lieutenant Colonel Major Fischer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Eh, I think the fact that the information DOES fit with each other and Teal'c was in the first season just figuring out exactly which things he knew were the truth and which were lies, that is far more likely than the easy out of blaming season 7.

    Watch out for the plot holes, but don't create ones that aren't there just to find another reason not to like season 7.



  4. #44
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Fischer
    Eh, I think the fact that the information DOES fit with each other and Teal'c was in the first season just figuring out exactly which things he knew were the truth and which were lies, that is far more likely than the easy out of blaming season 7.
    I guess I just find it highly unlikely that Teal'c, his wife and the 133 year old Jaffa Master Bra'tac would be so ignorant about their own physiology. That's not a conclusive observation, but personally, I feel more comfortable ignoring the information presented in Season 7 (as I tend to ignore other instances of gross mischaracterization during the latter seasons of SG-1).

    Watch out for the plot holes, but don't create ones that aren't there just to find another reason not to like season 7.
    My distaste for Season 7 goes far beyond this, I assure you.

  5. #45
    Brigadier General Madeleine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Dick
    "Oh, you poor man," is what Daniel said when Carter tried to rape O'Neill in The Broca Divide. I suppose a similar standard could be applied to Daniel's predicament in this episode.
    Note the word *tried*. Was O'Neill ever in danger? Fending off unwanted advances from someone who is inferior to you in strength is hardly a big deal. Being forced to actually have sex despite your protestations is a very big deal indeed.

    Besides, Daniel's sarky "you poor man" was in response to O'Neill saying that Carter had made a pass at him, not that he had nearly been raped. (ie even if Jack considered himself a victim of attempted rape rather than just a very rough come-on, Daniel was unaware that it was so). No way can a similar standard be applied.

    Madeleine

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine_W
    The difference is in the word *tried*. Was O'Neill ever in danger? Fending off unwanted advances from someone who is inferior to you in strength is hardly a big deal. Being forced to actually have sex despite your protestations is a very big deal indeed.
    I think what I'm saying is that Hathor could rape me anytime she wanted to. In other words, I'm subscribing (in a purely tongue-in-cheek fashion) to the oft-repeated assertion that men cannot be raped by women because, being the libidinous types that we are, such an activity would be enjoyable and welcome regardless of the circumstances.

  7. #47
    Brigadier General Madeleine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Sorry, but I know too many men who are either keen to remain faithful to their wives, who need to love a woman in order to make love to her, who like to be the one in control of their own actions or who would balk at the idea of shagging a probable killer to imagine that "such an activity would be enjoyable and welcome regardless of the circumstances." Toungue in cheek or otherwise.

    I think what I'm saying is that Hathor could rape me anytime she wanted to.
    So you're giving your permission? so it wouldn't be rape. Daniel not only didn't give his permission he actively attempted to rebuff her, and had to be drugged into submission. He didn't want to do it, he was forced, it was rape. There's nothing about rape.

    Madeleine

  8. #48
    First Lieutenant cobraR478's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Dick
    I guess I just find it highly unlikely that Teal'c, his wife and the 133 year old Jaffa Master Bra'tac would be so ignorant about their own physiology.
    Humans used to think it was a good idea to drill holes in their heads.

  9. #49
    Lieutenant Colonel Major Fischer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by cobraR478
    Humans used to think it was a good idea to drill holes in their heads.
    And as recently as fifty years ago the precursers of the FAA tried to forbid women from flying planes during their menstral cycles because they would lack the mental capacity to perform complex tasks.



  10. #50
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine_W
    Sorry, but I know too many men who are either keen to remain faithful to their wives, who need to love a woman in order to make love to her, who like to be the one in control of their own actions or who would balk at the idea of shagging a probable killer to imagine that "such an activity would be enjoyable and welcome regardless of the circumstances."
    In the "battle of the anecdotes", there can be no winner, but I know a number of men who would feel differently or who would at least be willing to joke about feeling differently.

    So you're giving your permission? so it wouldn't be rape.
    Not necessarily. I could say "no" out of a sense of honor or out of respect for the law but enjoy the physical act. In the state of nature, I suppose it wouldn't be rape.

    There's nothing about rape.
    I suppose I'm just one of those people who can find humor in anything, including rape. I pity those who cannot. The whole situtation is treated rather flippantly in the episode so I'm comfortable doing the same here.

    Quote Originally Posted by cobraR478
    Humans used to think it was a good idea to drill holes in their heads.
    I don't think this analogy is akin to an easily observable physiological change that either does or doesn't result in death. Don't tell me that Teal'c or Master Bra'tac have never been in or ever heard of a situation in which a young Jaffa was unable to receive a prim'tah at the appointed time and survive. There's simply no excuse for such egregious ignorance on their behalf except as it pertains to the lazy writing of TPTB.

  11. #51
    a Dream Master SeaBee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Dick
    I suppose I'm just one of those people who can find humor in anything, including rape. I pity those who cannot. The whole situtation is treated rather flippantly in the episode so I'm comfortable doing the same here.
    I'm sorry, but I can't ignore this part of your post. Being somebody who has seen the psycological damage suffered by victims of rape or sexual assault I cannot laugh at it. Rape, in my opinion, is the worst crime anybody can inflict on any man or woman, and there is no humour in it.
    Last edited by SeaBee; September 22nd, 2004 at 05:43 AM. Reason: spelling error
    http://forum.gateworld.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=29235&d=1297874202

  12. #52
    Major Crazedwraith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Fischer
    Eh, I think the fact that the information DOES fit with each other and Teal'c was in the first season just figuring out exactly which things he knew were the truth and which were lies, that is far more likely than the easy out of blaming season 7.

    Watch out for the plot holes, but don't create ones that aren't there just to find another reason not to like season 7.
    *sigh* Thers no conflict Birthright/Bloodlines anyway. Ryac being sick in S1 was not due to him not having a Prim'ta and Major Carter stated that Moloc's Jaffa had been altered so they depended (even more) on symboites.

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  13. #53
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    another interesting episode which requeals alot a fair bit of info on the goa'ulds life cycle.


    was nice to see the girls get an episode to themselves aswell!

    Stargate Destiny - Coming Again Soon

  14. #54
    Second Lieutenant zats's Avatar
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    Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard
    was nice to see the girls get an episode to themselves aswell!
    Oh, yeah!!!!

  15. #55
    Mr. Parker gatelover12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    First of all daniel was under the influence of a drug that made him want her NOT RAPE if a man got drunk and woke up with a woman he could not charge her with rape (I think)! Man can be raped by women in my opinion thru unwelcome sexual advances.

  16. #56
    Brigadier General Madeleine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    But if the woman got the man drunk without him knowing (spiking his drink or whatever) and shagged him even though he was asking her not to...? It's not like he chose to take the drug. Had he been in his right mind and stronger than her there would have been no sex. Everything that caused the sex to happen was initiated by her and was against his will.

    If it isn't rape to make someone want you by drugging them before you do the deed, then how come it's illegal to put rophynol in drinks...?

    Madeleine

  17. #57
    Lieutenant Colonel Major Fischer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Certainly I have a friend who was raped when a man got her drunk and than wouldn't stop when she said no (though she was too drunk to stop him, like alcohol poisoning level drunk).

    It does happen. I wouldn't dare say that it wasn't rape for Daniel.



  18. #58

    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Replicarter
    i loved this eposode, i love Hathor. shes so sexy, i was gonna buy her outfit from ebay, but it went a little over my budget lol. bring back hathor!
    Yay, A like minded person.
    All this talk of rape is making me feel dirty for liking Hathor. I have never been raped and I don't know anyone who has. So I can't comment on the topic, but to me Hathor is just like any other Gou'ald. They use and abuse, they are all unashamedly wicked.

    Below I posted this on another forum, I am just after a second opinion.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    The round crystal device on her belly appears to have two functions.
    When glowing will cut and cauterise a neat cross section into her new Jaffa's stomach and also appears to be a little door.

    Hathor gives birth to a boiling tub of Goa'uld larva and I think these creatures were spawned from behind this device. When Hathor rises out of her boiling tub in one scene, the device on her belly looks like a ring with a gaping hole. When she fully stands up the stone returns to its original place, in effect like a door closing.

    Is this a light trick on the camera or intentional?






    Last edited by Ke'ra; November 19th, 2004 at 03:47 PM.

  19. #59
    Brigadier General Madeleine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ke'ra
    Yay, A like minded person.
    All this talk of rape is making me feel dirty for liking Hathor. I have never been raped and I don't know anyone who has. So I can't comment on the topic, but to me Hathor is just like any other Gou'ald. They use and abuse, they are all unashamedly wicked.
    You're right about the goa'uld, and you don't need to feel guilty. I like Baal, Nirrti, Apophis... a torturer, a Mengler and a murderer. But they serve their purpose well as dramatic characters, they're interesting, so I say I like them, and if you like Hathor that's fine! I was sad when she died, I thought she was a good villain.

    Madeleine

  20. #60

    Default Re: Hathor (113)

    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine_W
    You're right about the goa'uld, and you don't need to feel guilty. I like Baal, Nirrti, Apophis... a torturer, a Mengler and a murderer. But they serve their purpose well as dramatic characters, they're interesting, so I say I like them, and if you like Hathor that's fine! I was sad when she died, I thought she was a good villain.
    I can now understand why the producers introduced Queen Goa'ulds in fish tanks.

    It is just not sociably acceptable for a Queen Goa'uld to have a human host.
    "Eew" and "beyond icky"
    As a result I don't think we have seen subsequent female host Goa'uld Queens nor never will.

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