Stones and sexual orientation

[reddevil18]

I've made a separate thread because I wasn't able to find a discussion specifically dealing with this. But if the mods want to merge it with another one, well, who am I to disagree?
Okay, so scientific research seems to point towards genetics or hormonal imbalance during gestation as causes for homosexuality. If that's the case, should Perry/Wray even be attracted to Rush/Sharon?

That's just one more reason why these magical(because that's just what they are, since there's not even been an attempt to give them an explanation) stones annoy me. Okay, writers can't explain how they work, and they do what the plot requires them to do, but that doesn't make it okay.

I've firmly decided that I hate the stones and I want them gone.

[s09119]

I've made a separate thread because I wasn't able to find a discussion specifically dealing with this. But if the mods want to merge it with another one, well, who am I to disagree?
Okay, so scientific research seems to point towards genetics or hormonal imbalance during gestation as causes for homosexuality. If that's the case, should Perry/Wray even be attracted to Rush/Sharon?

That's just one more reason why these magical(because that's just what they are, since there's not even been an attempt to give them an explanation) stones annoy me. Okay, writers can't explain how they work, and they do what the plot requires them to do, but that doesn't make it okay.

I've firmly decided that I hate the stones and I want them gone.

It's the mind that's swapping, and sexual orientation is as much based on genetics as it is on experience. I would assume that your preference would transfer along with everything else that you consider part of "you."

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

It's the mind that's swapping, and sexual orientation is as much based on genetics as it is on experience. I would assume that your preference would transfer along with everything else that you consider part of "you."

I'd think so too, that orientation would be transferred as a part of "you" that can't be separated from your body by, well, separating you from your body It's a physical/psychological part of you that I don't think you can separate out.

[droid327]

Well I can understand SGU doesnt want to delve overtly into the rather contentious issue of psychology vs physiology vis-a-vis homosexuality...but I would imagine that, for the short amount of time they're inhabiting others' bodies, that the personalities and "expectations" of the consciousness would override the physiological impetus of the body it's in.

In other words, Wray still is attracted to Sharon because she expects to be. Maybe if she was stuck in a straight woman's brain for weeks or months at a time, she might start to experience confusing urges and feelings towards Jonny Depp, but we havent had that happen yet

I havent seen Sabotage yet, and I think they may touch on it there a bit, but there's larger physiology questions to be asked about the stones than just sexual orientation....like when Eli and Chloe were out drinking in their "loaner" bodies, presumably with much different body weights and alcohol tolerances than their own. Or how they're able to immediately and effortlessly walk and perform surgery in a body that's a different size, height, different size hands, different strength of musculature, different proprioreceptive sensation, etc.

[reddevil18]

Well, I asked this now because Sabotage deals with the issue over a long period of time - almost a month.

But I see what you're saying. Even if genetics and hormones are the cause, as the person matures, it becomes so much so a part of them, of their consciousness, that not even a body that is genetically and hormonally predisposed to heterosexuality can "convert" them.

Here's a cool video from National Geographic on the issue:

[carmencatalina]

I personally have never bought the whole "mind/body duality" view of humans, so the communication stones don't work logically for me in any case. I don't think you can separate someone's mind from their body, they are not separable.

[s09119]

I personally have never bought the whole "mind/body duality" view of humans, so the communication stones don't work logically for me in any case. I don't think you can separate someone's mind from their body, they are not separable.

Why not? All you are is a collection of memories stored and accessed by electrical impulses. The body only acts as a storage center for those memories, so if they're transferred, why does the body matter?

Besides, it's alien technology. We're told it works so it works.

[reddevil18]

I personally have never bought the whole "mind/body duality" view of humans, so the communication stones don't work logically for me in any case. I don't think you can separate someone's mind from their body, they are not separable.

Mmmm...that touches on even deeper philosophical questions.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I'd still like to know what the policy is if there are any transgendered individual's on Destiny. Do they go with their Gender or their Sex when they are assigned bodies to be swapped?

[s09119]

I'd still like to know what the policy is if there are any transgendered individual's on Destiny. Do they go with their Gender or their Sex when they are assigned bodies to be swapped?

But as far as we know, their aren't any transgendered persons on the ship. I assume they would go with the genetic sex, however, for the comfort of the individual swapping in.

[carmencatalina]

Why not? All you are is a collection of memories stored and accessed by electrical impulses. The body only acts as a storage center for those memories, so if they're transferred, why does the body matter?

Besides, it's alien technology. We're told it works so it works.

Because our memories aren't stored the way we store electronic information on computers or drives - our memories are actually encoded in the very physical connections of our nervous system. The connections of individual axons, the interaction at axon endings. Not just electric information - biochemical information. You can't separate our neurons from the information they store - they ARE our memories.

There literally is no difference between mind and body (or at least, mind and brain).

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

s09119,

But as far as we know, their aren't any transgendered persons on the ship. I assume they would go with the genetic sex, however, for the comfort of the individual swapping in.

I wonder how the permission forms would deal with that particular issue when the person gets back to Earth?

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saO_RFWWVVA

that was really neat! Thanks, Red
I've never believed sexual orientation in any form is a matter of choice. Sexual acts can be, yes, but not orientation. Good to see the science on it though!

I personally have never bought the whole "mind/body duality" view of humans, so the communication stones don't work logically for me in any case. I don't think you can separate someone's mind from their body, they are not separable.

It's an interesting question, isn't it? Of course the very dramatic change with the stones is something in the realm of science fiction but one thing I've learned from science fiction is that there is always something in there that's do-able, either now or in the future, and it's stretched to its limits to explore that notion.

I'm probably opening myself up for some degree of mockery here (must be Tuesday!) but when I was a kid I had a near death experience. I won't go into details here but the point I'm trying to make is that I may not have been in my body, even for a short while. I know that it's not the same as the stones, but again, sci-fi stretches things in order to explore. So let's go on the notion that my mind, my spirit, left my body. Where did it go? To stretch a little further (there's an X-Files episode, some will remember), what if, at the moment of my near-death, someone else "dies" or is also out of their body at that moment. Could we switch? If it could happen by accident, could it be made to happen on purpose?

[s09119]

s09119,



I wonder how the permission forms would deal with that particular issue when the person gets back to Earth?

Does it matter? Either way, it's not your body. Let's say the transgendered person was born male but believes his gender is female. Since his body is still that of a male, I assume a male would swap in, and said transgendered individual would swap back to the swapper's body. You either make them both uncomfortable by forcing a woman into a man's body or limit the discomfort to only one of them. It may not be fair for all parties, but it's fairer than anything else I can think of.

Also, this isn't exactly on-topic. Sexual orientation and gender identity are very, very different things.

[FromOutside]

I am a big fan of bodyswap and more serious gender swap stories so I have thought this much when I am having a sleepless night. And that is not rarely.

I don't know if the video linked says the same but the current view of human sexuality is that there is both physiological and (learned) psychological aspect. This is not surprising, if we agree that a human being is psychophysical being and exclude dualism etc. In body swaps that means there must be chances in brains, since the personality is stored in matter and matter also effect it. The brain must chance, but how much it does chance?

Since temperament is a biological, essential part of a personality and variates person by person, the chances can't be done only in memory level. If they were, personalities would be different because of different temperaments, and that is not seen very often. However, it would be an interesting idea to sci-fi.

Major chances. I can't see why the area that conctrol sexual desire and hormonal function couldn't chace as well. Often muscle memory is chanced too and that hints the chances are even more gigantic. But persons experiencing them doesn't notice them because the structures behind them are familiar for her or him.

In gender swaps it becomes more interesting because there is more room to mess with. The chance to experience should be bigger and more dramatic.

If a male character get chanced to female, it seems logical that he (she?) really is a woman and can for example menstruate. That means female brain (hormones produced by brain have a big part in menstruation cycle). Why the parts that have biological combound in sexuality wouldn't chance too? But at the same time learned part thinks differently. My logic says that it would lead to some kind of crisis and chances, likely towards bisexuality, if the subject chances was heterosexual from the beginning.

(hopefully my rambling thoughts are understandable and have no too much typos. My browser lost it's proof reading -_-)