Swan Song (522)

[starg8fans]

WOW, that was something else. A great ending to the story arch, with a nice setup for S6.

So Chuck is/was God. Or is he? Hmmm. It would explain why in The Monster at the End of this Book and Lucifer Rising Dean and Cas managed to change the storyline according to Chuck. In both cases when Dean showed up at Chuck's place, he said that's not how he had written it - and I was wondering what gave Dean the power to override the prophet's vision. But of course God would have been able to rewrite the script, or rather could have kept the real script under wraps. It could have been one way of helping the boys believe that their choices mattered where fate was concerned.

On the other hand - what about the amulet? According to Cas it was supposed to 'burn hot in God's presence'. Why didn't it when Dean was around Chuck?

[iolanda]

On the other hand - what about the amulet? According to Cas it was supposed to 'burn hot in God's presence'. Why didn't it when Dean was around Chuck?

Maybe the amulet was always just an amulet. Or you have to believe an know that it burns hot in gods presence. Or God wasn't in Chuck at first, or just when he had his visions or when he was writing (that would explain why Chuck didn't believe Sam and Dean that they are in fact Sam and Dean).

[Aerilon]

Well, that was actually quite poor...

I was expecting a whole lot more than we were given. There were a few twists and turns about the place, but half of what we expected to see never actually happened. It seems obvious that Chuck is God (I do believe that Kripke clearly stated we'd see God in the final episode, and it wasn't Bobby). I find it hard to believe that God would drink Coffee and invite Hookers around though, just doesn't seem in his nature.. then again, what do we know of God?

I liked the twist that now, both Michael and Lucifer are stuck in Hell together, no doubt they will somehow find a way out, though I am curious what happened to Sam and Adam. I'd predict that Sam was 'brought back' by God, and that Adam 'remained dead, but in Heaven'. Seems only fair as he was used by Michael. That being said, it seems we've only got Raphael left as the last Archangel (although Castiel could be one now, as he did state he's been brought back better or something to that extent). Hopefully we'll see him again; I'd actually like to see Raphael again too, and Gabriel (would have thought God would bring him back, but no).

I'm having a hard time seeing Chuck as God. The whole 'Archangels defend Prophets', when it actual fact, they seem to be protecting God himself? So much confusion right there. Regardless, I did expect a bit more from the episode (Cas exploding was cool though). Hopefully season six (and onward) will give us something nice and new to chew on, though I'm willing to bet it'll end up with Dean looking for Sam, or something... can't see how they're going to continue Supernatural with Dean living the happy little life.

[Salamas]

On the other hand - what about the amulet? According to Cas it was supposed to 'burn hot in God's presence'. Why didn't it when Dean was around Chuck?

Well considering if Chuck is God, he is God, God can do stuff. I'm sure he'd find a way to disguise himself from the amulet.

[TheRandomOne]

Did Bobby get his soul back ? & I wonder if Sam is an angel now since they would need a Michael replacement

[Jeffer]

i hope bobby got his soul back. I think that Sam is half angle half human and has to work for heaven. I think god pulled him out and made a deal with him. also fav line from the entire ep. "How bout it Sam a fiddle of gold against your soul to think I'm better then you" also loved the song Dean chose for the lead up in the impala 'Rock of Ages' by Def Leppard

[Aerilon]

Still bitter about this disappointment, I'm not done here.

Archangels: It has been a prophecy (if you like) that Michael and Lucifer had to eventually fight each other. One (or both) would end up dying because of this. This leaves a single Archangel; Raphael. Is it now his job to stop Lucifer? Is it his job to stop both Michael and Lucifer? Baring in mind (last we saw) he was still trapped in a ring of fire, and as such, isn't going to be doing much with his spare time at any point soon.

Also, whilst on the subject of Lucifer, even though 'evil' he was the one who was right. Lets not do what God wants, lets decide our own fate. Michael was the Ignorant one here, and paid the price for it.

Death and Heaven: Does anything that 'dies' go on to live in Heaven? This would include Angels. If not, what happens to everything other than Human when other such entity dies? This has never been explained. Sam and Adam would have died, this much we get, yet there was nothing to stop them being brought back to life once Michael and Lucifer had settled their score.

God / Chuck: I refuse to believe that Chuck is God. If Chuck was God, then God (being all-knowing) would have known it was Dean on the end of the phone. There was no need for Chuck to cover up that magazine like he did, nor was there any reason for Chuck to have acted like he has in past episodes. Personally, I think the writers ran out of paper here, and just threw Chuck's character in at the deep end. There are so many things Chuck has done, and so much that has surrounded him, that it makes no sense for him to actually be God.

Castiel: Firstly I think he gave up hope (at the start) a little too much, or too quickly. Also, come the end, he simply 'left'. Like Dean said, he was crap at goodbye's. That entire scene was rushed. Cas has spent a year or so with Sam and Dean, and he just leaves like that? It neither explained what happened / happens to hos vessel. Jimmy died some time ago, or at least would be in a comatosed state. When Cas went back to Heaven, does Jimmy go back with him? - If so, next time we see Cas (if at all) he'll need a new vessel. Jimmy is no longer with us.

It would have been nice of Cas gave Jimmy's life back to him, somewhat on the condition that if Cas needed a vessel again, Jimmy would be obliging, but no, they failed to even think about that.

The Amulet: Chances are nothing could actually locate God. Why should it? I don't know where Castiel got his information from, but it doesn't seem to fit very well. Just so happens an Amulet of Dean's was suppose to show God's location? I think not.

Dean: Was nice of him to mention Adam at the end when in the car with Cas. Adam wasn't even mentioned. Dean just went on about how he'd lost Sam.

Bobby: So he has a deal with Crowley (what happened to him by the way, he wasn't even in this episode). Did Bobby go to Hell for a few days (hell-time is different), or did Bobby go to Heaven? We don't know exactly what his deal with Crowley was. Neither do we know whether he has his soul back. Seems a bit hypocritical that Dean and Bobby part ways if Bobby still owes Crowley.


I'm actually quite annoyed right now...


Edit: I doubt very much that Sam is an Angel or anything. It wouldn't make sense for him to be one, and not Dean. I think either Sam was free'd (by God), or that Sam is dead, but was given the chance to see Dean settling down, and fulfilling his promise. Suffice to say, Season 6 will need both of them, and in some respect, they'll both need to be Human again, even though we know Heaven sucks.

[Heaven]

wow what an ep. this felt like a series finale

I don't think Chuck is God, I think he was just whisked away for something that will kick off next season
just like Sam suddenly showing up

[Aerilon]

wow what an ep. this felt like a series finale

I don't think Chuck is God, I think he was just whisked away for something that will kick off next season
just like Sam suddenly showing up

Thats just the thing though, we've been told that God was to make an appearance in this episode. Chuck is the only person he could have been. The only other thing Chuck could be is another Supernatural being, but even then, we never met God.

In addition to this, we've been told that the next season wont have anything to do with the Apocalypse or Archangels etc. Either we're being lied too, or they're taking it from a whole new point of view.

[Arative]

Still bitter about this disappointment, I'm not done here.

Archangels: It has been a prophecy (if you like) that Michael and Lucifer had to eventually fight each other. One (or both) would end up dying because of this. This leaves a single Archangel; Raphael. Is it now his job to stop Lucifer? Is it his job to stop both Michael and Lucifer? Baring in mind (last we saw) he was still trapped in a ring of fire, and as such, isn't going to be doing much with his spare time at any point soon.

But the prophecy doesn't say when they have to fight. It could be with both of them in pit now, that the previous prophecy about armageddon is no longer valid. The future isn't written and all that.
We also don't know if God brought back Gabriel, he certainly could have done it off screen. From what Cas said, he might be an archangel now. He's probably in heaven, taking control. I guess that's some stuff they should address in season 6

Also, whilst on the subject of Lucifer, even though 'evil' he was the one who was right. Lets not do what God wants, lets decide our own fate. Michael was the Ignorant one here, and paid the price for it.

Lucifer always struck me as a petulant child. He wanted to be loved more than all others and he got angry when God loved Man more than him.

Death and Heaven: Does anything that 'dies' go on to live in Heaven? This would include Angels. If not, what happens to everything other than Human when other such entity dies? This has never been explained. Sam and Adam would have died, this much we get, yet there was nothing to stop them being brought back to life once Michael and Lucifer had settled their score.

From what little we were told about heaven, it seems only humans go there after death. But since we were never told what happens to angels or demons or any of the creatures the boys kill after they die, I don't think we can assume they go to heave.

Sam and Adam could have been brought back after Michael and Lucifer fought but you have to remember, when they did fight, it was going to lay waste to a great deal of the planet. That's why Dean and Sam were trying to find a way to stop the battle.

God / Chuck: I refuse to believe that Chuck is God. If Chuck was God, then God (being all-knowing) would have known it was Dean on the end of the phone. There was no need for Chuck to cover up that magazine like he did, nor was there any reason for Chuck to have acted like he has in past episodes. Personally, I think the writers ran out of paper here, and just threw Chuck's character in at the deep end. There are so many things Chuck has done, and so much that has surrounded him, that it makes no sense for him to actually be God.

Was it ever stated in the series that God was all knowing? I can't recall that it was, in which case you're proscribing your own belief about God. Plus, who doesn't want a God with a sense of humor?

I've always thought that Chuck was Kripke injecting himself in the story, so in a very real sense, Kripke is God in the world that he created, so it makes sense from that perspective that Chuck would be God.

Castiel: Firstly I think he gave up hope (at the start) a little too much, or too quickly. Also, come the end, he simply 'left'. Like Dean said, he was crap at goodbye's. That entire scene was rushed. Cas has spent a year or so with Sam and Dean, and he just leaves like that? It neither explained what happened / happens to hos vessel. Jimmy died some time ago, or at least would be in a comatosed state. When Cas went back to Heaven, does Jimmy go back with him? - If so, next time we see Cas (if at all) he'll need a new vessel. Jimmy is no longer with us.

It would have been nice of Cas gave Jimmy's life back to him, somewhat on the condition that if Cas needed a vessel again, Jimmy would be obliging, but no, they failed to even think about that.

Again, you don't know what happened off screen. Cas could have beamed back to Jimmy's house and left him there. Since Cas wasn't an archangel, Jimmy should be fine. Not seeing what happened to Jimmy leaves the opening to Cas to return next season. So its no wonder they didn't tie that story line up.

The Amulet: Chances are nothing could actually locate God. Why should it? I don't know where Castiel got his information from, but it doesn't seem to fit very well. Just so happens an Amulet of Dean's was suppose to show God's location? I think not.

Didn't Cas say he heard a rumor about objects that could locate God? Maybe it was just God's way of getting Cas out of the picture to let the boys do what they needed to do or maybe just the writers getting a powerful character out of the way.

Dean: Was nice of him to mention Adam at the end when in the car with Cas. Adam wasn't even mentioned. Dean just went on about how he'd lost Sam.

So Dean should feel as broken up over a kid he barely knows over Sam, who he practically raised? I'm sure he feels bad about Adam but I can see where he feels worse about Sam.

Bobby: So he has a deal with Crowley (what happened to him by the way, he wasn't even in this episode). Did Bobby go to Hell for a few days (hell-time is different), or did Bobby go to Heaven? We don't know exactly what his deal with Crowley was. Neither do we know whether he has his soul back. Seems a bit hypocritical that Dean and Bobby part ways if Bobby still owes Crowley.

I'm pretty sure that Crowley gave back Bobby his soul last episode but I'd have to go back and rewatch it, just to be sure.

[LoneStar1836]

I've always thought that Chuck was Kripke injecting himself in the story, so in a very real sense, Kripke is God in the world that he created, so it makes sense from that perspective that Chuck would be God.

Exactly. Though I never considered Chuck to be Kripke since he was introduced. Not until this episode and the way they had Chuck narrate it did I totally equate him as being Kripke/God. Heh, I like it. RDM gave himself the same nod in the last episode of BSG.



I can't say "wow! the episode totally blew me away", but I do love it. If this had to be the final episode, I could totally live with it...well except for the ending with Sam standing there (which obviously leads to S6) because I'd need some answers for that. I love Joss Whedon, so I'm used to main characters dying in his shows. So if they had left us with Sam being gone, he went out as a hero.

Cas/Jimmy: I'm thinking Jimmy has long been dead, which would be the merciful thing. Cas got killed by an archangel at the end of season four and once again in this episode he was blown to little pieces. Anna got to come back looking like her original vessel, why not Cas.

Was I the only one worried that this episode was going to be the Impala's swan song? TVGuide had mentioned it would play a part in the episode, and then the ep started off the way it did. So I was preparing myself for it to be driven into Hell or something. I liked the way it played into the episode.

Bring on Season 6.

[iolanda]

Was I the only one worried that this episode was going to be the Impala's swan song? TVGuide had mentioned it would play a part in the episode, and then the ep started off the way it did. So I was preparing myself for it to be driven into Hell or something. I liked the way it played into the episode.

Bring on Season 6.

I wasn't worried, I was sure that the Impala would be the one to go. But the she didn't- And I am very happy about that, and about that neither Bobby nor Cas died for good.

[NIMBUS]

umm yea, i don't know how likely this is but imo it would be sweet if lucy and mike would for any reason experience what castiel did when he became almost human (his host was a vegetable and he lost his powers)...
...i'm talking very fan-ficcy here but what the hell - if entering the cage with a host would do that to them and then spit them out... the two strongest/arrogant angels would be that they hate the most and practically two small whiny girls comparing to what they were before
btw, they could technically fulfill their destiny and fight each other
...PM me the link if someone decides to write ANYTHING similar to that or it already exists..
...by btw (my version of pps ) it was what sam looked like in the end of the ep...
...cheers!

[marielabbott]

Was I the only one worried that this episode was going to be the Impala's swan song? TVGuide had mentioned it would play a part in the episode, and then the ep started off the way it did. So I was preparing myself for it to be driven into Hell or something. I liked the way it played into the episode.

As soon as the narration began, I thought the "beloved character" that was going to die would be the Impala.

I'm still processing the episode, but I am stumbling over Chuck apparently being God. God is the author, so sure, that part makes perfect sense...but not much else about Chuck's behavior. At the moment, I don't think I like it much. Maybe that will change with a rewatch.

This would have been a good series finale. I'm glad it's not, but I could've lived with it. Sam defeating the devil, while making Dean promise to live the apple pie life Sam began the show yearning for. Interesting circle there, full of SPN's brand of sadness.

I wonder what season 6 will bring? I'm glad we will get to see.

[the fifth man]

I am still reeling over how good this one was. I really can't wait to get Season 6 underway.