Ancient Remote

[meo3000]

Im really looking for an answer here, thats why im reposting this in its own thread.

If the remote links with the gate, which then link with the network, giving a bunch of available addresses, it means that the remote is "seeing" the Destiny, which means Destiny "sees" the gate and remote also. All this without any wormhole connection, which means subspace connection.

So why in the hell Destiny didnt wait for the last team to redial knowing that they were simultaneously trying to make a connection? The ship computer had to know. So the real question is, did the ship deliberately left them down there? or is this a "plot hole"? I dont want it to be the writers fault.

For now im choosing to believe its because of Chloe and her new found Blue Alien powers that got her the boot, Eli and Scott are just collaterals.

What do you think?

PS: Do you think the remote could also be used like a phone to communicate directly with the gate console on Destiny? or at least text messages back and forth?

[Sami_]

If the remote links with the gate, which then link with the network, giving a bunch of available addresses, it means that the remote is "seeing" the Destiny, which means Destiny "sees" the gate and remote also. All this without any wormhole connection, which means subspace connection.

I think this is where your stretching things to fit your theory, Destiny could well be transmitting a strong enough signal so that local dialing devices can see the ship but its by no means certain that the dialing device can transmit a signal that Destiny can pick up.

Even if you accept that Destiny was aware of the attempt to dial its hardly a stretch that there just isn't a failsafe in place to delay an FTL jump if there is a dialing attempt in progress.

[happy]

I don't see how the ship would know someone is dialing in while the gate is active. It's not like stargates have call waiting.

It could just be that each stargate is broadcasting a signal and whichever signal the remote can detect shows up on the list of addresses. The remote is not sending out anything by itself. It's like how wireless router works. When you want to connect wirelessly your computer first check which routers are in range. The routers wouldn't know of your computer's existence until you actually connect to it.

[Mike.]

The gates see the others in range - the remote only connects to the gate and downloads that list. While Destiny also sees the gates around it, it had no way to know who is on the other side; or even if there was a remote present.

Could this communication system be hacked ? Possibly, but these "are the wrong people" they might not have the necessary skill. There are precedences - the Avenger virus or how Ball dialed all the gates in the MW simultaneously.

The first time Eli tried to dial he got a busy signal because Rush and his team was coming aboard at that moment. The second time Destiny was already in FTL, possibly preventing a stable connection using a standard address or already far enough for the 7 chevron address to stop working (it's location based) - Destiny travels faster than light, in a few seconds it could have already left the star system.

Right now the only way Eli can get back:
- is if he somehow catches up to Destiny - to be in range of normal gate operation,
- or dials the 9 chevron address. While it might take more power than a normal dialing, it will be a lot less than what was necessary the first time ("billions of light years") - he would only need to cross the void (or part of it). He can do it if he finds a supplemental power source, he knows the power equation and memorized the address.
- he gets a lift by ship and gets dropped off on Destiny. They could find the race that built that star system, or get captured by the blue aliens (who probe Eli's mind and find Destiny's course) or encounter something new.

[meo3000]

Some kind of connection is being made between all the gates, thats a certainty. The remote connects with the nearest gate, thats also a certainty.

Think of it like our computers today. If the gate system is a closed wireless network, each gate is a client desktop computer on stand by, Destiny is a laptop computer with ADMIN rights and skilled nerd using it and the remote is... WiFi device.

When a connection is made, the nerd knows from which computer it comes, he can also know if another computer is trying to connect at the same time, and he can definitely see the difference between a ping and an upload request. And to push it, that nerd can figure out that the request is coming from a WiFied device through the computer, like a phone.

If this is feasible right now, i would like to believe that Destinys AI can do it to, and a lot more.

[Sami_]

The gates see the others in range - the remote only connects to the gate and downloads that list. While Destiny also sees the gates around it, it had no way to know who is on the other side; or even if there was a remote present.

I'm not so sure that the gates actually "see" others in range as much as it keeps a mini-database of gates around it.

So a gate is seeded on planet #1 but it has no knowledge of any other gates, another gate is planted on planet #2 and the seeder ship transmits the location information of planet #2 to the gate on planet #1 and each subsequent gate thats dropped already has the locations of all gates dropped previously.

Either that or just dont bother with the signal and let gate #2 dial gate #1 and give location information via wormhole connection, whatever it is a real-time connection between gates is not necessary and just a waste of power.

[Col. Matarrese]

I'm not so sure that the gates actually "see" others in range as much as it keeps a mini-database of gates around it.

So a gate is seeded on planet #1 but it has no knowledge of any other gates, another gate is planted on planet #2 and the seeder ship transmits the location information of planet #2 to the gate on planet #1 and each subsequent gate thats dropped already has the locations of all gates dropped previously.

Either that or just dont bother with the signal and let gate #2 dial gate #1 and give location information via wormhole connection, whatever it is a real-time connection between gates is not necessary and just a waste of power.

The only problem I see with that theory is that Destiny itself disappeared from the console's list, therefore indicating that the network, or at least the nearest gate's list, updates in something close to real time.

I think the network is something like a modern wireless mesh network...the reason you can't see all the gates from one spot is because you lose strength in your signal the farther away you get. For example, you have one "base" connection (the gate you're nearest to) and from there, each step (gate) you move away from that loses half its initial signal strength...this Wikipedia article probably explains the concept more clearly:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MANET

Point is, I think it's real time, just with limited range.

[Stormtrooper]

As far as I know, a Stargate only connects to another specific Stargate and establishes a wormhole once the 7th chevron is locked.

First time Eli dialed Destiny, the line was busy (thanks to Rush and his team).

Second time, the phone seemed to be out of range. Because if not, Destiny should have dropped from FTL and allowed the wormhole to be established just like what happened in the pilot.

Therefore, in both cases, there was no way Destiny could have "known" someone was trying to access the local gate.

[Sami_]

The only problem I see with that theory is that Destiny itself disappeared from the console's list, therefore indicating that the network, or at least the nearest gate's list, updates in something close to real time.

Destiny sends a signal out because it can be anywhere at any given time and the console picks it up so it can dial, there is no reason why you'd need the same thing from the gates, they are static.

There would be no reason to have a wireless link at all.

[Mike.]

Destiny sends a signal out because it can be anywhere at any given time and the console picks it up so it can dial, there is no reason why you'd need the same thing from the gates, they are static.

There would be no reason to have a wireless link at all.

Actually they do need to communicate to account for stellar drift. The MW and PG gates use correlative updates (via the DHDs).

[Avenger]

Some kind of connection is being made between all the gates, thats a certainty. The remote connects with the nearest gate, thats also a certainty.

Think of it like our computers today. If the gate system is a closed wireless network, each gate is a client desktop computer on stand by, Destiny is a laptop computer with ADMIN rights and skilled nerd using it and the remote is... WiFi device.

When a connection is made, the nerd knows from which computer it comes, he can also know if another computer is trying to connect at the same time, and he can definitely see the difference between a ping and an upload request. And to push it, that nerd can figure out that the request is coming from a WiFied device through the computer, like a phone.

If this is feasible right now, i would like to believe that Destinys AI can do it to, and a lot more.

No connection with Destiny was ever established when Eli dialed.

[Lord Hurin]

Even if you accept that Destiny was aware of the attempt to dial its hardly a stretch that there just isn't a failsafe in place to delay an FTL jump if there is a dialing attempt in progress.

This.

The Ancients were pretty arrogant. I'm sure their view of the matter would've been something along the lines of "well, we're not idiots! We won't get lost!"

[meo3000]

You guys are not getting it.

If the address disappear at the same time as the ship, it mean theres already a connection between the remote and Destiny. Think about it for a second. The two DHDs are communicating with each other, yes, one is the remote the other is the ship.

If we take this as fact, then something else could be sent back and forth without ever having wormholes. If a gate can send info about its stellar drift, it stand to reason that something like a simple sms could get through.

We have a kid genius that thinks outside the box, it could be something he could come up on his own. He doesnt have dial all the galaxy gates all at once, he just needs to hack the link. Im sure he could do it.

[Sami_]

Actually they do need to communicate to account for stellar drift. The MW and PG gates use correlative updates (via the DHDs).

Why does this help your theory on a wireless link? you just cited how they update for stellar drift, why would we suddenly assume they do so differently than MW gates?

You guys are not getting it.

If the address disappear at the same time as the ship, it mean theres already a connection between the remote and Destiny. Think about it for a second. The two DHDs are communicating with each other, yes, one is the remote the other is the ship.

What you describe does not require a 2-way connection, I don't see whats so hard about that to understand.

Destiny continuously sends a signal detailing its position, when the device stops receiving it then naturally it would stop displaying it as a gateable location.

[Lord Hurin]

I think a key thing to remember is that the people aboard have NO control over Destiny's navigation systems. The ship does what it wants and what it's designed to do.