Are humans the most evil species in SG?

[undeadly]

Asurans, Ori, Goa'uld, Replicators, Wraith, all genocided by the murderous humans.
They even had to kill all clones of a mostly harmless and likeable system lord.

I get this is a military oriented show so we can gloss over

Spoiler:

executing defeated enemy leaders or using WMDs on civilian population "to end a war"

for Freedom, our Nation and to save our boys' lives, but the SGC is actively exterminating whole species of sentient aliens in the name of Earth.
This is well into the Third Reich zone.

Let's compare humans to the genocided aliens:

Asurans: Okay, they wanted to genocide humans but only to accomplish their mission of genociding the Wraith, given to them by(whom else?) the humans.

Ori: Wanted to be liked. People are killed in the real world for not believing in Gods that do not even exist, the Ori did exist and probably were able to grant "salvation" to their followers.

Goa'uld: Wanted to be liked and powerful. Many of them were just a bit evil, probably not worse than what human leaders would have done to their own species(see Lucian Alliance).

Wraith: They just wanted to live. They needed to eat humans and always left enough alive to guarantee the survival of the species.

Replicators: They just wanted to live. They hardly attacked humans at all unless in self-defense.

I am probably forgetting some minor enemies, but you get the point. I hope they leave genocide out of SGU.

[Starrtom]

Asurans, Ori, Goa'uld, Replicators, Wraith, all genocided by the murderous humans.
They even had to kill all clones of a mostly harmless and likeable system lord.

I get this is a military oriented show so we can gloss over

Spoiler:

executing defeated enemy leaders or using WMDs on civilian population "to end a war"

for Freedom, our Nation and to save our boys' lives, but the SGC is actively exterminating whole species of sentient aliens in the name of Earth.
This is well into the Third Reich zone.

Let's compare humans to the genocided aliens:

Asurans: Okay, they wanted to genocide humans but only to accomplish their mission of genociding the Wraith, given to them by(whom else?) the humans.

Ori: Wanted to be liked. People are killed in the real world for not believing in Gods that do not even exist, the Ori did exist and probably were able to grant "salvation" to their followers.

Goa'uld: Wanted to be liked and powerful. Many of them were just a bit evil, probably not worse than what human leaders would have done to their own species(see Lucian Alliance).

Wraith: They just wanted to live. They needed to eat humans and always left enough alive to guarantee the survival of the species.

Replicators: They just wanted to live. They hardly attacked humans at all unless in self-defense.

I am probably forgetting some minor enemies, but you get the point. I hope they leave genocide out of SGU.

Are you an undercover propaganda agent for any of the above?

[thekillman]

you are forgetting a few things.

1: the ori are ascended beings who friggin wanted to kill us and killed those that not believed them. that is wrong on so many levels. besides, for as long as one ascended ori remains, the war couldn't have ended.

2: the wraith aren't exterminated, and we know from the ancients that peace talks didn't end well. the ancients tried to peacefully surrender but the ships that were sent as representatives were annihilated. they don't want peace, they almost committed genocide themselves.

3: the asurans were committing genocide. then genociding them is IMO fine.

Replicators: They just wanted to live. They hardly attacked humans at all unless in self-defense.

they consume materials to grow. to grow stronger, better and all. besides replicarter WAS evil and outright claimed she wanted power and all. do you really think she would've stopped? nope. she promised not to harm earth and still did it.

]

Goa'uld: Wanted to be liked and powerful. Many of them were just a bit evil, probably not worse than what human leaders would have done to their own species(see Lucian Alliance).

goauld use of the sarcophagus and their genetic memory makes them inherently evil. also these guys are ready to commit genocide themselves, torture using most horrible forms of torture and brainwash and kill. besides, they're not completely dead by far. many are still alive. we only eradicated the system lords, which are just a hand full.



lastly, mostly the Xenocide was commited as a last act. the Ori were winning and clearly showing they would NEVER allow ANYONE to surrender peacefully. it's kill or be killed. besides we spared many millions of lives through killing them, so i'm fine with that.


you also claim most want to be liked. a person impersonating a god and torturing and killing and even being cannibalistic, THAT IS NOT wanting to be liked. the Wraith do not wish to consider peace, they see us as lesser beings. the asurans are a WMD themselves. the replicators are worse than that. besides the replicators almost committed xenocide on the asgard.


besides most of the enemies hardly have anything like "citizens" or "civilians".

wraith: have a caste system but i've never met anything like a civilian.
ori: they're a collective of evil powermongers.
replicators: each member is a weapon on it's own.
asurans: WMD society
Goauld: i've only see system lords or lesser goauld ready to do evil. even a goauld scientist helped the ori establish a beachhead.



you see? when we nuked the asuran homeworld we destroyed WMD's. you saw FRAN. she was fine with being a WMD and happily accepted it and readily killed herself.

we executed major evil goauld. are you forgetting Baal tortured oneill and killed him dozens of times over? he put naquahdah in a sky scraper to nuke the US. such a bomb would've had a power in the many MT's, see Tsara Bomba for the effects.

we mass-eradicated the replicators, yes, while they were committing xenocide on jaffa, goauld, and humans.

we eradicated the ori while they were eradicating humans in our galaxy for not falling in line.

[asdf1239]

you're also conveniently forgetting that the asurans were sentient and they were exploited by the expedition when they fooled around with the base code. they should not be held responsible for their actions fighting the wraith because the programming forced them try to defeat the wraith at all costs which encompasses genocide on human populations.

it's like an entire population that has been conditioned as sleeper agents. and who did it - the supposed benevolent lanteans who also committed genocide on the asurans when their weapons project didn't turn out as planned. given this, their desire to destroy atlantis as a symbolic form of retribution and animosity towards the tau'ri are understandable. and considering weir's and the rest of the team's persistent obsession with zpms and behavior during progeny (practically demanding help against the wraith and acting like it was the asurans' obligation to assist them, even allow them to live in the damn city ffs), i wouldn't be surprised if the tau'ri came off as overly militaristic/aggressive and thus suspicious. they appeared very much reminiscent of the eurondans who kept asking for heavy water for their war.
mckay had a chance to fix everything by removing the asuran aggression programming but he betrayed them, froze them, and blew up their populated cityship, pissing them off.

and if you're going by the "they must be killed because theyre a threat" aka ends justifies the means philosophy, then the tau'ri are no better than the goa'uld or wraith for destroying advanced civilizations that are a threat.

also, the lanteans attempted to wipe out the wraith during the war and we don't know which side tried it first. from confirmed canon it's more than likely that the lanteans saw the wraith as a pest rather than another culture and tried to completely eradicate them.

it's been proven multiple times that goa'uld can turn good. so they aren't inherently evil as a species.


and even disregarding the sg/atlantis teams actions towards other species, they're putting the entire population of earth at risk of total annihilation or enslavement and allowed to do so purely with the consent of few individuals.

as for the mw replicators, they weren't inherently evil either since their sole objective is to replicate (deliberate malice isn't necessary) they are not sentient either except for the few human form ones. i agree that they needed to be destroyed and it was not genocide since the vast vast majority aren't sentient beings in the first place.

the tau'ri have had it better than most other species in the sg-verse. they're the most technologically advanced group of both galaxies and can enforce any "moral" judgements that they make with force. none of the tau'ri making intergalactic decisions have experienced the things that have happened to other races, some of which they are fighting. they screw around with things that they do not understand and end up getting millions of innocents killed in pegasus - the ones that they're trying to protect. so even the other "good guys" aren't exempt from tau'ri-induced destruction.

[reddevil18]

Humans are great. Humans are heroes. Humans are the best. YAY, HUMANS!

[thekillman]

when did a goauld EVER turn good? also, the ancients desired peace with the wraith and got their representatives blown up.


any race ready to commit genocide or xenocide IMO does not have the right to be shielded from it themselves

[Replicator Todd]

I can grant the Wraith as not being evil. but stubborn with the idea of finding another way to feed. The Ori and Goa'uld seemed definitely more evil than any human. The Ori were like "we have superpowers and staffs, bow to us or be obliterated" thats pretty evil IMO. Then again alot of them didn't realize the "evil" they were following. So I think the Goa'uld were the evil ones.

[asdf1239]

when did a goauld EVER turn good?

um..the tok'ra queen? and the goa'uld in fallout?

also, the ancients desired peace with the wraith and got their representatives blown up.

the lanteans had tried to xenocide the wraith already, what makes you think the wraith should trust them

any race ready to commit genocide or xenocide IMO does not have the right to be shielded from it themselves

...and going by this, the lanteans shouldn't have been shielded from genocide either

[Supreme Commander Sil]

All the text I typed disappeared .
In brief:
Ori would kill all those who wouldn't believe - people would defend against humans with same goal.
Unas considered equal - Chaka befriended by Jackson - defended Unas.
Goa'uld didn't want to be "liked", they wanted to dominate - evil - took hosts against their will. Enslaved almost the entire galaxy. Enslaved Unas. Then killed many of them too... Enslaved "non-humnans".
Sentaurii (?), the aliens appearing on Space Race and an episode beforehand, were helped by humans. Against the humans on the planet thinking they were superior and helped bring down this rebellion.
Tea'lc is technically not human. Actively supported jaffa rebellion.
To'kra accepted. Carter's father joins them. Treated as powerful allies and equal.
Helped Nirti's mutants.
Let's no forget the Asgard.
... The ancients (they became allies with those who revealed themselves and helped)
Oh, and some of them were part ancient....
etc!
The humans did feel guilty for changing the asuran base code. However, the asurans weren't forced to eliminate the humans, they chose it as their strategy. They are robots, pretty much. They do somewhat have a personality (especially Fifth), but that dictates that they spread forth and "devour" . In order to create more of themselves, they destroy everything.
If the humans were so self-obsessed, they would have left the *forgotten* device - the one Jonas built which destroys hive - on and not cared about the possible human/alien deaths.
They also felt guilty for awakening the wraith. Plus all the other things they did.

Humans are great. Humans are heroes. Humans are the best. YAY, HUMANS!

Humans are SUPERIOR!
I have perfect eyes, 20-20 vision and they're BLUE!

Oh, I also stated comparing them to Nazis is too steep . That's the goa'uld . They force labour. Hard labour. They kill whosoever they desire.... They force people into their ranks and they send out lots of propaganda and infiltrate the education. Bingo !

I can grant the Wraith as not being evil. but stubborn with the idea of finding another way to feed. The Ori and Goa'uld seemed definitely more evil than any human. The Ori were like "we have superpowers and staffs, bow to us or be obliterated" thats pretty evil IMO. Then again alot of them didn't realize the "evil" they were following. So I think the Goa'uld were the evil ones.

They didn't kill the followers (well, as few as possible), so those who followed mostly lived . They realised that . The goa'uld did the same.

[s09119]

I can grant the Wraith as not being evil. but stubborn with the idea of finding another way to feed. The Ori and Goa'uld seemed definitely more evil than any human. The Ori were like "we have superpowers and staffs, bow to us or be obliterated" thats pretty evil IMO. Then again alot of them didn't realize the "evil" they were following. So I think the Goa'uld were the evil ones.

So if everything we on Earth eat suddenly began fighting back, you'd be fine with just creating another food source to replace them? We're vastly superior to cows, why not just kill them like we always do and continue enjoying our hamburgers?

[gotthammer]

Humans are SUPERIOR!
I have perfect eyes, 20-20 vision and they're BLUE!

"We are going to die."

[asdf1239]

The humans did feel guilty for changing the asuran base code. However, the asurans weren't forced to eliminate the humans, they chose it as their strategy. They are robots, pretty much. They do somewhat have a personality (especially Fifth), but that dictates that they spread forth and "devour" . In order to create more of themselves, they destroy everything

they were forced by the programming to defeat the wraith regardless of morals. therefore they inevitably chose the most efficient strategy - starving the wraith by destroying human worlds. if they had plans of widespread replication around the galaxy they would have carried them out a while ago. before the tau'ri came, they were peaceful and isolationist.

and the atlantis team didn't feel the least bit "guilty" about it. they only had an "oh sh!t" moment when todd informed them of the results of the reprogramming.

[Laxian of Earth]

when did a goauld EVER turn good? also, the ancients desired peace with the wraith and got their representatives blown up.


any race ready to commit genocide or xenocide IMO does not have the right to be shielded from it themselves

well "turned good" goa'uld (also good is a matter of perspective - as they did some morally questionable acts, too):

Jolinar of Malkshure (the name says it - goa'uld that join the tok'ra get a name for a great battle they fought against the systemlords (well they lost that battles mostly, but still))

Egeria - the tok'ra queen (once faithful to however created her and latter on betrayed the goa'uld in favour of creating the tok'ra)

Garshaw of Belote (member of the tok'ra leading council and again with a name that suggests goa'uld origin (that's most likely why she was offended the most when the tauri called her this - as she has sacrificed much in order to join the tok'ra))

...there are one or two others.

I can grant the Wraith as not being evil. but stubborn with the idea of finding another way to feed. The Ori and Goa'uld seemed definitely more evil than any human. The Ori were like "we have superpowers and staffs, bow to us or be obliterated" thats pretty evil IMO. Then again alot of them didn't realize the "evil" they were following. So I think the Goa'uld were the evil ones.

i do not think the goa'uld evil, they just have "lost perspective" - imho at first (when they first took hosts) they felt very vulnerable (their natural form is!) so they forced themselfes into other creatures for protection (and as that went well, they continued it), so i am saying:

at first they were only over compensating (with their defeating in then enslaving of other races) for their own lack of selfe confidence and vulnerability (and the fear of being hurt themselves) - some of course liked it (they most likely became the systemlords) some didn't (they became the tok'ra later on).

as for the goa'uld, later on their own fears, their love of being in charge (therefore having nothing to fear any longer) and the use of the sarcophagus made them "evil" also a good therapy might cure that imho

greetings LAX

[asdf1239]

So if everything we on Earth eat suddenly began fighting back, you'd be fine with just creating another food source to replace them? We're vastly superior to cows, why not just kill them like we always do and continue enjoying our hamburgers?

what if a technologically advanced group of cows reactivated a flying city of great power and started attacking us

[Replicator Todd]

So if everything we on Earth eat suddenly began fighting back, you'd be fine with just creating another food source to replace them? We're vastly superior to cows, why not just kill them like we always do and continue enjoying our hamburgers?

I'm fine with eating bread and veggies. But seeing how the Wraith were fine with occasionally forming an alliance with the humans, and even using the retrovirus or whatever was used to remove the need to feed, the Wraith have other options that would cause far less death.