Young is the good guy. Why the majority think different?

[Deevil]

Right, so given that there was good reason both for his decision and to get emphatic about it I don't see how you can use it as damning evidence on his command and say that decisions he makes are based on "desire" as you did several posts ago and called him selfish for doing so.

That is NOT what I said in reference to TJ at all. I have given my reasons for why I don't think he is fit for command, agree or not they will still be my reasons.

[Sami_]

Except his desire to keep TJ on board had nothing to do with his need to keep the crew together - it was selfish (although the right thing to do). In the end the civs had every right to decide to settle on the planet if they so wanted. They aren't owned by Young. Currently the military have little choice but it's going to come to a point that even they have to be offered one.

Seems like it.

[Deevil]

Seems like it.

What, saying that his personal wants are selfish is just a statement. TJ wanting to stay on the planet was equally as selfish. As was Scott's reasons. I'm not sure why you have a problem here.

[Sami_]

What, saying that his personal wants are selfish is just a statement. TJ wanting to stay on the planet was equally as selfish. As was Scott's reasons. I'm not sure why you have a problem here.

Your position is clearly that Young is not a competent leader and your posts are your opinions as to why, now you are claiming that its "just a statement" when it fact it was an attempt to condemn him as someone who makes decisions based on his desires.

Why bring it up otherwise in the context of the conversation.

[Deevil]

Your position is clearly that Young is not a competent leader and your posts are your opinions as to why, now you are claiming that its "just a statement" when it fact it was an attempt to condemn him as someone who makes decisions based on his desires.

Misinterpret what I said to your hearts content, you obviously have it in your head what you think I meant (in regards to TJ and Young in the episode Faith) despite my statements to the contrary.

ETA and clearly my position is that Young is unfit to lead, never pretended otherwise. I don't think his choices in Faith were entirely determined by his position, but rather his feelings. He ended up making the right decision, one that he should have made given his position anyway (in regards to the military personnel, not so much the blackmailing of civs and military alike) so it's all fine, and in this case emotion lead him to making what would be the semi-right decision. Whatever lead him there was good, as caring about someone as he does for TJ hasn't lead to others being hurt.

Although, that's not to say that it wont so he has to check that. All in all that was more of a statement to his character in this case rather then his ability to command.

[Sami_]

Misinterpret what I said to your hearts content, you obviously have it in your head what you think I meant (in regards to TJ and Young in the episode Faith) despite my statements to the contrary.

Okay, you had no purpose in claiming that he made a decision based on desire while having a conversation in regard to his leadership.

Completely a standalone non-related statement - got it.

[Deevil]

Completely a standalone non-related statement - got it.

I added an edit, I was speaking to his character not his command. If you like I can make it about his command and his inability to separate his feelings from his job, but I would rather not as one of the important parts of being in the military is caring for your brothers in arms, knowing they have your back. Perhaps Young and TJ took that too literally, but still, no harm has come to them, or anyone has been sacrificed because of their relationship so I don't think it's a problem. It could very well become one though.

[Sami_]

I added an edit, I was speaking to his character not his command. If you like I can make it about his command and his inability to separate his feelings from his job, but I would rather not as one of the important parts of being in the military is caring for your brothers in arms, knowing they have your back. Perhaps Young and TJ took that too literally, but still, no harm has come to them, or anyone has been sacrificed because of their relationship so I don't think it's a problem. It could very well become one though.

You are assuming a lot from an emphatic "No" which given the situation would make sense had he no feelings whatsoever for TJ.

[Deevil]

You are assuming a lot from an emphatic "No" which given the situation would make sense had he no feelings whatsoever for TJ.

No, what I am doing is taking into consideration his previous behaviour with TJ and I applied that information to how quickly his 'no' (and he said more then no at that point too) became more emphatic, potentially could be read as panicked once her name was mentioned as one of the people who wanted to stay. These singular events don't live in a bottle; interpretation of actions can traverse a great number of episodes.

I understand you have read the events differently and where you are coming from with your opinion on this topic, I just can't personally get behind that reading.

[Sami_]

Even if his reaction was a result of his feelings for TJ, which I disagree with, but assuming it is true its no different to Jack not leaving Sam behind in upgrades and later saying something like he would have rather died than leave her behind because he cared for her much more than hes supposed to.

Has anyone ever even suggested that it should reflect badly on his ability to command?

Also in Red Sky O'Neill was about to kill one of the locals because they caused the death of two of his men, though I'm sure you have never advocated removing O'Neill from command of SG-1.

[Deevil]

Has anyone ever even suggested that it should reflect badly on his ability to command?

Did I say that this reflected badly on Young's command? The reasons I think Young shouldn't be in command have nothing to do with this moment, although I am deeply deeply amused that you keep on arguing that I did!

As for your Jack/Sam references, I don't disagree with it up till Faith. After that, knowing she is pregnant with his child makes things different. While he hasn't had to make a decision that favours her, doesn't mean that he wont in the future. Should be interesting should that ever come up.

[Laxian of Earth]

this is all wrong. Young is the good guy here. he has flaws, but his intentions are good. Dr. Rush however, his intentions arent even clear, and civilians cant think for themselves clearly. Military has disciplined these soldiers well to be able to handle such circumstances and in very special circumstances such as this to restore order and protect civilians from themselves. i think DIVDED episode actually made Young and the military look good as they were the most reasonable.

The road to hell is also paved with good intentions they say! Hell, a lot of bad guys (organized criminals for example or people like the NID-Spooks if you want to use a Stargate example!) had good intentions (pretty up the neighborhood where they were born (some criminals do that, but that doesn't change the fact that they kill, steal, embezzle etc. in order to be able to do that!), save Earth by stealing technology (which might make the good guys in the Galaxy, like the Asgard (!), hate humanity!))!

Does that make them good guys? Nope! It might make them human, but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't rather deal and work with people who aren't like that! Give me SG-1 any day instead of those scumbags (especially the military!) on the Destiny! Threatening civilians into complaince at the point of a gun? Yeah, how about no? They should have depressurised the sections the soldiers were in IMHO (they can collect their gear and weapons later on and then run the ship way better than with those trigger happy barbarians along who'd rather behave like thugs than civilized people!)

greetings LAX
ps: I wouldn't work with Young, I'd simply stop working (what's he going to do? Shoot me?) and the rest would probably, too (so no food, no repairs on the ship etc.)...have fun soldier-boys!

[Alterus]

Ahhhh..... it has been stated that these are the wrong people to be there, they were never to really serve on board Destiny even if Lucian Alliance didn't screw things up.

Young is the only LEADER among them. Military has its chain of command but yet the CIVILIAN personnel is only concerned about being in charge. Rush wants it, the IOA chick wants it, the rest just want someone else to be in charge other then Military. But with Aliens recently attacking Destiny who would you rather have in charge? A Military commander with combat experience or a potentially mad scientist who seems to be just gambling?

He has problems, duh, but when everyone's attitudes begin to cloud their judgement and dissension amongst them begins someone also needs to be the level head and try to play referee, sumtimes its needed to get into a persons face and yell. Rush does not care about the others (we know this already) he will sacrifice others for his goals. As for the planet thing.... Rush had it coming you know it, I know it everyone knows it.

For the idea that in non fighting times the Civilian Government has all power and the Military should listen to them is an obviously good idea, but in chaotic situations like what is currently happening on Destiny the Military needs to keep things in control. The Military on board Destiny are like the police force, they keep the peace, but when you have more then one person attempting to SEIZE power from others by force, and those people may not have the best intentions the Military needs to keep things in control.

Young, I think, realizes that they are stuck, and they need to find a way to live together.... otherwise why not expose Rush after the events of "Divided". I think people don't want to see this (From Destiny Crew P.O.V.)

Rush, potential mad scientist with no regard for others take power

Young, Military commander keeping things the way they are

IOA Chick (Cant remember her name ever!) Closest thing to a politician who has no knowledge of ship systems and will have to rely only on everyone else and not really contributing to anything in the long run.

You have any other ideas for a Leader? Military, for now, is best, Young is the best choice to keep running things.

Someone else, anyone else like in Atlantis the Military answers to a civilian commander just as Sheppard answered to Weir and Woolsey

[Xaeden]

Someone else, anyone else like in Atlantis the Military answers to a civilian commander just as Sheppard answered to Weir and Woolsey

What exactly was Wray's role in Icarus? I'm not incredibly versed in SGU, but my understanding is that she had some degree of power (Johansen seemed obligated to go to talk to her about leaving for her scholarship), but she was more of an observer sent to keep an eye on the money the IOA was spending and thus perhaps had to rubber stamp personnel changes. There could be more details that were revealed in later episodes that I don't remember, but I am of the understanding that Young was ultimately in charge at Icarus and his civilian oversight came from reporting to his superiors back on Earth who reported to a civilian government.

Technically, that chain still exists on the Destiny as Young is able to use the communication stones to answer to his military commanders on Earth who answer to a civilian government. When the civilian rebellion happened, Wray talked about the importance of the military answering to a civilian government, but as she had no previous authorization to give orders to those military personnel as far as I'm aware, she was attempting to create her own power structure independent of the existing one.

[Alterus]

What exactly was Wray's role in Icarus? I'm not incredibly versed in SGU, but my understanding is that she had some degree of power (Johansen seemed obligated to go to talk to her about leaving for her scholarship), but she was more of an observer sent to keep an eye on the money the IOA was spending and thus perhaps had to rubber stamp personnel changes. There could be more details that were revealed in later episodes that I don't remember, but I am of the understanding that Young was ultimately in charge at Icarus and his civilian oversight came from reporting to his superiors back on Earth who reported to a civilian government.

Technically, that chain still exists on the Destiny as Young is able to use the communication stones to answer to his military commanders on Earth who answer to a civilian government. When the civilian rebellion happened, Wray talked about the importance of the military answering to a civilian government, but as she had no previous authorization to give orders to those military personnel as far as I'm aware, she was attempting to create her own power structure independent of the existing one.

That technically didn’t suit the IOA when Sam was in charge of Atlantis, it was made pretty apparent that they didn’t want a Military officer in charge so I fail to see how they can tolerate Young muscling his way into becoming de facto head of the Destiny Expedition.