Power should be shared

[beafly]

Pipi,

What about after Young retook the ship and Wray looked at him and said, "You shouldn't have left him to die." Young responded, "You think I don't know that?" That's an admission against interest that would get by the hearsay rule.

Young already admitted that he fell in a rock slide. The statement you quote above is consistent with his previous story too.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Beafly,

Good point. Young has shown his willingness to lie and to allow other's to take resonsibility for his actions. It would be consistent for him to perjur himself.

[beafly]

Exactly. As he said to Rush, "It's your word against mine." I don't see how anything he has said thus far to Wray would change that. He's been very careful choosing his word with her. He wants her to know that he did it, but not be liable.

As I've stated before, his ability to flat out lie is what I dislike most about the man. He's a sack of crap just like Rush.

[FallenAngelII]

No he did not!

Have you, you know, seen "Divided"?

WRAY: You shouldn't have left him on the planet.
YOUNG (softly): You think I don't know that?

If you're referring to what evidence is there to prove that Wray incited mutiny or a coup, then that evidence will be in the advent of a trial, everyone gets interviewed and they will tell the truth about what happen on that day.

So your "evidence" is simple testimony. The same evidence exists for the attempt at Rush's life.

It is naive to assume that all civilians or even Wray will lie under oath to deny any involvement with overthrowning Young's command.

And what happens when Young lies under oath with Rush, Wray and whoever else heard Young confess testify against him? He said/She said in both situations.

If Young willfully lies during his testimony, I do not doubt that the civilian will retaliate by lying under oath during Wray's trial in turn.

I don't recall watching that. If you can quote the episode number and time so I can rewatch it.

I was illustrating how the testimonials will play out.

If there is a trial, everyone will get interviewed and the truth will come out that Wray incited a mutiny/coup. The court will read Young's military reports and they will also read Wray's reports. If everyone tells the truth in their interviews, it'll be 100% clear she's guilty as charged.

And if everyone tells the 100% truth, it will be clear that Young is guilty as charged. What is your point?!

There's also Kino footage of Wray's and some people plotting in the Hydro lab thanks to Eli.

It doesn't prove the mutiny took place at all! Also, Rush can easily erase that. If Young tries to have Wray punished for the mutiny while continuing to lie about his attempted murder on Rush, Eli will be forced to side with civilians and erase any incriminating evidence that indicts Wray. Because Eli has an actual conscience.

It's not like self defence. Two wrongs does not make a right.

Yes it is. Young attempted to murder Rush. Wray felt that he was a danger to the crew. Wray wasn't going to lock him up, she simply didn't want him in command anymore.

Pipi,

What about after Young retook the ship and Wray looked at him and said, "You shouldn't have left him to die." Young responded, "You think I don't know that?" That's an admission against interest that would get by the hearsay rule.

There's no hearsay there. It's a direct admission coming from the culprit's own mouth.

[rlr149]

Yes, let's not actually read even the OP before responding with a strawman. As head of the military, Young would be in command when being shot at by aliens.

not the point, you can't run things optimally by commitee............ a council(govornment) can decide policy, you still need a 'leader'(president/prime minister) though who doesn't have to(not saying he shouldn't if he has the time etc) consult with several other people who might think they should be in charge to make any kind of decision.

and i did read it, classic wishy washy "can't we all get along" type woolly thinking, and if theres anything that the vast array of human history proves............. its that we can't all get along!

by all means hope for it, but don't gamble lives on it. not mine anyway

[nx01a]

I agree with you, rlr.

Yes it is. Young attempted to murder Rush. Wray felt that he was a danger to the crew. Wray wasn't going to lock him up, she simply didn't want him in command anymore.

That's certainly downplaying the extent of the coup and its ultimate ends [Wray back in command and the military being second class citizens again.]

And who would take Young's place? Certainly not Wray. Definitely not Rush. Sure as heck not Volker! Danger to the crew or not, he's [sadly] the best choice for leader on the ship.

[Gollumpus]

What about after Young retook the ship and Wray looked at him and said, "You shouldn't have left him to die." Young responded, "You think I don't know that?" That's an admission against interest that would get by the hearsay rule.

The actual quote is, "You shouldn't have left him on the planet." This is a big difference from what you have said.

Just to play devil's advocate here, in a court of law if Wray's comments and Young's response were written into evidence as they were actually spoken there could indeed be a very big reasonable doubt here. A lawyer would likely say that his client (Young) actually meant, "You think I don't know that? - I should have tried harder to see if he was actually still alive, what with the expertise Dr. Rush brings to the table. Also, I was aware of how it would look to people due to our past history. It was a failure on my part not to check on him and my only defense is I had to rush back to reach the gate before Destiny departed. If it wasn't for that I would have checked him and found him alive and then returned him to the ship."

Combine the above with Rush confirming to the rank and file that events unfolded as Young had said, and him saying that Young had "done the right thing" (whether he's actually told Wray of not is open to debate and would be something which could be torn down by a good lawyer), Young would walk.

regards,
G.

[Lord Hurin]

Combine the above with Rush confirming to the rank and file that events unfolded as Young had said, and him saying that Young had "done the right thing" (whether he's actually told Wray of not is open to debate and would be something which could be torn down by a good lawyer), Young would walk.

The problem with this is that it seems Rush has told everyone about what really happened. Wray and Chloe know for sure, and I figured that this fact was the main thing going against Young in the civilians' eyes.

So, basically Rush is being sneaky. Show of hands, who's surprised?

[nx01a]

*doesn't raise hand*
If Young decides to tell the civilians that Rush framed him and that led to Rush's being left behind, I wonder how many would be eager to get behind Rush [and Wray] again.

[Gollumpus]

The problem with this is that it seems Rush has told everyone about what really happened. Wray and Chloe know for sure, and I figured that this fact was the main thing going against Young in the civilians' eyes.

And Rush, while he was getting in his first square meal in a few days, told everyone that events unfolded as Young had said. If I were a civilian on that ship I may not be in support of Young, but I would have a lot of questions to ask Rush (considering his history) about the change in his position before I went along with a plan he was supporting. Wray would likely "believe him" regardless of the veracity of his position because it would support her position. Chloe would support Rush because she feels a sense of loyalty to him from his rescue of her from the alien ship. How much that has affected her sense of credulity is anyone's guess.

regards,
G.

[Starrtom]

Once you introduce a committee to run things you will have problems. It will create more angst then peace. It will become political, it will create factions and divisions. Egos will get in the way of actually making the right decision and nothing will get done. I have worked with committees, luckly not in them, and understand the pitfalls very well. The destiny needs one clear leader that can take charge, deligate duties and ensure the survival of the people.

Democracy wouldn't work in a situation the people of the Destiny are in. I don't advocate dictatorship, but leadership.