Once you pick up a weapon...

[IrishPisano]

you stop being a civilian...

all this griping about the way the military treated the civilians..... once you pick up a weapon in direct opposition to a soldier you are no longer a civilian....

and if you are unarmed but are aiding those taking up arms, then you are on their side

IMHO, LT James was completely justified in rifle-butting that one guy.... 1st there was an armed mutiny on board the ship. 2. because said mutineers are armed, said mutineers cease being civilians. 3. the guy that James hit was moving towards her and was not listening to commands. 4. it set an example and ensured that no one else would choose to not listen to Greer


this isn't just a bunch of civilians protesting peacfully
this was an armed attempted coup d'etat...
Young, Greer, and the rest of the military were completely justified in all of their actions for that one simple fact.

[Daro]

I completely disagree with almost everything you said, except that this was indeed an attempted coup. However, James's superior officer reminded all of them before they went into that room to take it easy on the civilians (or resistance fighters, if you want to be extreme about it.) She directly violated that order by striking an unarmed man. Whether you think Rush and Wray v. Young are right or wrong is immaterial. When twenty or so people on the ship have all the guns and have a nasty habit of pointing them in someone's face every day, tension is going to rise. Rifle-butting an unarmed civilian is just stupid.

As for Young being right in every way, I'm not so sure. I think Rush and Wray should have tried to handle things diplomatically, but who can blame Rush for wanting to avoid that? Not only does he figure his life is expendable to Young, but he's got plenty to fear from wild cards like Greer.
Young is reaping what he sowed. He did the wrong thing, and he knows it, by leaving Rush to die. He has fumbled the ball and proven that he cannot control his temper in crucial situations. I don't think Rush or Wray would be any better as leaders than him, but both of them at least have some restraint, it seems.
You can't equate Destiny to Atlantis. The military and civilians are all here against their will (save for Rush, of course) to start with. Contact with SGC is limited. I wouldn't expect Rush or Chloe or anyone else on their side to sit back and just take whatever violence and judgment that Young thinks they deserve.

[The Shrike]

By that logic, the military that's occupying the ship and refusing civilian control is fair game too. Make no mistake, Rush was breifly in control of that ship, and if he wanted to he could have let Young and Scott be vapourized when the ship made the jump. After doing that, he could have depressurized the areas under control by the military and be done with them for good.

Pure logic, brutal logic, and dare I say it, military logic.

[PG15]

Wait, which of the civillians had a weapon?

I don't remember any of them having guns.

[Pharaoh Atem]

Wait, which of the civillians had a weapon?

I don't remember any of them having guns.

me neither

[Replicator Todd]

I think one civilian had a weapon, just one.

[PG15]

Oh right, I remember now. That guy who pointed the gun at Eli.

Still, it seems most of the coup just involved Rush trapping the military folk without the need for a firefight.

[Coronach]

Wait, which of the civillians had a weapon?

I don't remember any of them having guns.

One of them took the weapon that TJ made the marine lay on the ground. This was the only weapon I remember them having, though.

[Astria]

They pulled a gun on Eli. Who commented on the irony of that situation.

[Daro]

Still, one civvie with one handgun. Hardly qualifies the entire group as an armed resistance.

[s09119]

The whole point was that the civilians were fighting back peacefully and the military still treated them like prisoners. Having one gun (really just to keep any military out that may have followed Eli) hardly makes them cease being civilians.

[jelgate]

The whole point was that the civilians were fighting back peacefully and the military still treated them like prisoners. Having one gun (really just to keep any military out that may have followed Eli) hardly makes them cease being civilians.

I'd hardly call the civilians locking everyone and giving no food or water being peaceful

[Coronach]

The whole point was that the civilians were fighting back peacefully and the military still treated them like prisoners. Having one gun (really just to keep any military out that may have followed Eli) hardly makes them cease being civilians.

The point about the "one gun" is actually a very good one. Remember, Volker said "they're the ones with the guns" in the episode Space. This implies that the military had tabs on all of the arms and only distributed them to military personnel. Additionally, Young knew very quickly (based on communications with Greer and others) which military personnel were on his side and which were stuck on the civilian side.

From here, it should have been easy to deduce that they had only the one weapon. The only question now is, was one of those people that Greer laid out in the hallway the person with the gun or not? As they were the "guards", I'd expect they were...though this could be easily confirmed by rewatching the episode.

I only mention this because it's important to establish whether or not the military had reason to believe several civilians were armed or not. Unfortunately, my memory is terrible and the episode is not available on Hulu yet.

[s09119]

I'd hardly call the civilians locking everyone and giving no food or water being peaceful

Peaceful simply means a lack of violence, and that's what this was. They didn't want to hurt anyone, they just wanted to force the military's hand. What other options did they have, anyway? They were being as civilized and nonviolent about it as they possibly could, given how Young and the military have treated them thus far.

[Daro]

They didn't deny food and water. They controlled it, same as the military had control over life support and Eli. They made an exchange. I don't think Rush or Wray ever intended to try and starve the military out, just get them to compromise.