Some of the Military Shocked me

[Misfits]

So? That doesn't change the end result. Franklin made a choice. He is still responsible for it, no matter what lead up to the choice. Really, we could talk around this forever, I don't think we're gonna agree.

Actually I changed the events in such a way to make Dr. Franklyn responsible for his actions.
Young to Wray was done properly.
By having the chair discovered after Wray was in command makes any security of it Wray's call, duly authorized to make that decision.
Then Dr. Franklyn sits in the chair, making his condition a result of his choice.

Nah, they like it better when we disagree .

You think?

[Deevil]

Actually I changed the events in such a way to make Dr. Franklyn responsible for his actions.

You didn't need to change conditions to make Franklin responsible for his actions, he already was which is what my point is. I know you disagree, so I'm not sure what else we can add to this current line of discussion.

You think?

The media doesn't like it when people get along. Not enough blood or something .

[Misfits]

You didn't need to change conditions to make Franklin responsible for his actions, he already was which is what my point is. I know you disagree, so I'm not sure what else we can add to this current line of discussion.

I was trying to show that under the changes that I made to the sequence, I would agree with you, however that wasn't the case. No authority to change means full responsibility.

We can't. You have your point of view, I have mine. We agree to disagree.

The media doesn't like it when people get along. Not enough blood or something .

Ya think?

[Shadow_7]

I don't see the point in figuring out which guy is better, they are both pretty messed up individuals. Neither I would want to be lead by.

Not that any of us have any say who we're lead by. Dimple chad or unable to furnish a birth certificate to prove citizenship. Well I guess we do have some say. Follow spencers lead, or palmers and friends.

Yeah let's look at that.
In 'Air' Dr. Franklyn was about to follow Dr. Palmer and Airman Curtis to another planet. Rush decided to stop him. Ordered Sgt. Greer to shoot him. Sgt. Greer shot Dr. Franklyn. This saved Dr. Franklyn's life. Good job. Even though Rush didn't actually shoot Dr. Franklyn, he ordered it. He decided, somebody lived. Good, very good.
Rush was sorely responsible for Dr. Franklyn's saved life. I have no problem with giving Rush his due when he does something right.

Never mind that when he got back through the gate he was yelling Greer shot him. And omitting the "by my order" part. While I like the Character of Rush, his actions are starting to wear on even me. A bit too much like my former bosses. You're salaried and you work one ten hour day and one six hour day, you have a two hour deficit because you didn't work two eight hour days. Just a bunch of self serving making rules out of thin air administrators. Deleting logs to survive the audit. Fabricating data, Rush might as well be a CEO for ENRON, Worldcom, Fannie Mae, .....

[Misfits]

Never mind that when he got back through the gate he was yelling Greer shot him. And omitting the "by my order" part. While I like the Character of Rush, his actions are starting to wear on even me. A bit too much like my former bosses. You're salaried and you work one ten hour day and one six hour day, you have a two hour deficit because you didn't work two eight hour days. Just a bunch of self serving making rules out of thin air administrators. Deleting logs to survive the audit. Fabricating data, Rush might as well be a CEO for ENRON, Worldcom, Fannie Mae, .....

Like I said, I like Rush's character because he's stirring things up.

But he keeps making decisions without any authority to do so. That's why I place the blame on him.

[Laxian of Earth]

greer don't take **** from no one plan and simple. the military leads the destiny and the civilians were uprising. so in a way think of it as martial law

They don't lead, every single base except the Alpha-Site and the SGC in Stargate has been commanded by a civilian most of the time (Samantha Carter was an exception, probably because she's as much a scientist as a military officer, and she didn't last long), they usurped leadership basically (justifying it with "it's an emergency situation" - of course it is you ****ers, but even in those command of the armed forces rests with a civilian leader! In the case of the US-Military it's the Commander-in-Chief (who is the US-President!), who will delegate some of that to his defense minister and that person again will delegate some to the secretaries of the Navy, Army and Air Force and those guys would probably select people to act in their stead in Atlantis etc.)

Hell, I would have no problem if any of the soldiers on Destiny were half-way competent, but none of them is!

In fact all of them should be court martialed (bring in a judge and lawyers etc. via the damned stones!), stripped of rank (dishonorably discharged!) and locked up because they all are a danger to the ship and the crew!

Everett is no leader (in fact he's an anti-leader and I wouldn't follow that guy anywhere, while I'd go with Jack O'Neill, Hammond, Samantha Carter etc. in a heartbeat! Hell, I'd trust Harry Maybourne and the NID over that guy!), Greer is a deranged trigger happy ******* and Everett's second in command is a non-personality who thinks more about sleeping with Chloe then anything else!

Note: I am not saying that most of the civilians are all that great, but at least they aren't trigger happy and beat other people up!

greetings LAX

[Laxian of Earth]

If I'm rehashing other people's points, I'm sorry. But I wanted to post quickly and not go though 6 pages just 'cause I'm hurrying.

I'm honestly shocked that people are shocked by the actions of the military in this episode. I think you have two separate issues going on here. The first, is the appearance and possible actuality of a military dictatorship going on inside Destiny, but I think that's separate from what you have going on here.

The actions of the military seem perfectly consistent with their function and training. The civilians took control of the ship, the resources, and ordered the military force to essentially surrender. The commander, DIDN'T agree to it and hatched a plan retake the assets. It wasn't pretty, but it was also fairly clean and I don't remember seeing anyone killed.

Had any of the soldiers not complied with their commander, they could and probably would be brought up on charges later. A soldier does not have the luxury of deliberating on the correctness of his commander's decisions. So I'm not sure why we're judging anyone that harshly with the possible exception of Greer who just seems to "want" fight.

That said, there is a legitimate issue here and that is the inability of Wray, Rush, and Young to somehow segregate duties so that all parties feel comfortable. As it has been pointed out, the military can't function there alone. And at the moment, I'd say the civilians need the military as well. But honestly, I DON'T blame any of them. I blame the idiots back on Earth who they keep in contact with and keep pulling strings. Wray was basically told to "manage" the ship. Young has been told to "manage" the ship. And Rush doesn't need anyone to tell him to manage the ship because he just happens to know more than anyone else.

YES HE/SHE DOES! A soldier can be brought up on ****ing charges (court martial!) if he obeys an order that isn't lawful (beating up civilians can be seen as such, especially since the military is supposed to be controled by civilians - the supreme commander of the military (in the US of A) is the freaking president who is a civilian after all! Running a military dictatorship is kind of against the law, too so you could easily bring Young up on charges, hell if you add attempted murder and ordering unlawful **** then you are looking at a long time at hard labour at Fort Leavenworth!)

A soldier isn't a machine, he/she is supposed to judge every order given and to not obey unlawful ones!

greetings LAX
ps: Damned, I am doing it again...thread necromancy