Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[lord groovy]

One last question : how resilient are the Jaffa now ?

(If they are all like Teal'c, you could pump gallons and gallons of sleeping gas or CO2 into the ship, they won't even flinch. Just keep shooting until everyone's dead.)

[Crazy Tom]

I expect half a clip each? Maybe more, depending on the quality of their armor and how much ducking they do. But soldiers would be appropriating Zats conveniently staked inside the gate room for some reason, as well as Staff weapons off incapacitated Jaffa, both weapons have been shown to take down Jaffa with one blast, and in close quarters, aiming is easier.

Point taken on the gas. What about just thinning the atmospheric pressure until everyone passed out?

[guppy338]

how resilient are the Jaffa now?

it does not matter they have to breath and the gas is inhaled and put into the blood stream and then to the brain we also could pump in different types of nerve gas or bio weapons that can immobilise or kill them then we can safely stole onto the ship in has mat and then take control of the ship and then just ring over a different canister to a different ship along with flash bangs.

[the-alguroan]

I expect half a clip each? Maybe more, depending on the quality of their armor and how much ducking they do. But soldiers would be appropriating Zats conveniently staked inside the gate room for some reason, as well as Staff weapons off incapacitated Jaffa, both weapons have been shown to take down Jaffa with one blast, and in close quarters, aiming is easier.

Point taken on the gas. What about just thinning the atmospheric pressure until everyone passed out?

i don't think the jaffa will not be able to withstand something like that. i am for the idea of travelers, hell they don't even need to be on the run from the gouald . they could have lost their planet in a war or something, hopefully their ships will be better designed then the travelers.

[Crazy Tom]

Actually, the Jaffa are pretty resistant to biochemical attacks, Tea'lk is walking around without a Hazmat suit in Singularity since he's immune to disease, and the Symbiote can do a lot of stuff to keep its Jaffa operational.

[immhotep]

If we knew it was a ship then we could pump in nerve gas and other bioweapons through the gate, and then go in with Hazmat or gas masks. The jaffa are not completely immune to toxins and have no visible signs of gas masks or the like. We wouldnt need sybmiote poison to wipe out a Hatak if we could gain access. And especially in the early years the capture of hataks could have been far better.

Im impressed by the ideas for new races and ideas that are coming through, the creative juices are making some really exciting things happen. Can i ask peoples opinions on continuing some of the work from the previous fleets. We had a storyline in the pipeline involving a new form of engine that allowed us to travel to alternative universes. Basicly able to cross between the fleets future timeline and another perhaps earlier time period Paralell to our own.

My idea would be to take elements from the first gen fleets and transfer them to a new universe, one where things have happened which made certain parts of the show far more realistic, perhaps the goauld are never wiped out, the replicators are a major thread, the wraith are still around. I would like some parts of the fleet to be kept, bits that worked and used in a new universe. I wont list everything to keep but i would like to see some of the old features kept, like the Asgard having a small class of ship than the Oniell, a combat version of the Jackson class for example. A more aggressive and comprehensive hold over the economics of the galaxy, i actually really liked the trade station ideas from 2.0, space stations set up by the tauri to network with and trade with advanced races for both technology and intelligence. They dont even have to be Tauri, but perhaps we do find an advanced race which has stargates on a network of space stations that trade technology and we can get involved in those commercial activities. Giving us a legitimate source of technology and intel and a mandate to aquire and explore commercial aspects of the gate, to set up mines and network to get ships produced offworld, or directly buy other ships. I think Promethius Unbound is a really nice example of the black market system we could really profit from, the SGC cant go public on earth so uses offworld economics as its source of revenue. I would like to see an organisation similar to archgate be founded, or for the SGC to have a more significant civilian and diplomatic wing, which could take in the more political and diplomatic parts of what people are suggesting.

I dont think every element of the old need disregarding, there are some very valid and good ideas that might be great additions to the general stargate fleet universe whatever form it takes. I think having a fleet of 3.0 ships trapped in a SG1 time frame would be a bit unfair, but perhaps a single ship crashes on a planet as a failed attempt to test these new engines, they give a "glimpse" of a future earth but have to treat themselves with a bit of distance because interfering would damage the timeline. But at the same time they then come under attack from old enemies that still pack a punch, such as a revamped goauld or ori armarda. I still think for all that people complain about how the old fleets uber things up, they would still be the underdog even at this point if facing a credible representation of the enemies SG1 had. A fully fledged goauld empire or Ori campaign would still prove an incredible challenge to 3.0 Tauri.

[guppy338]

I think we should take a vote on the ideas and then go from there in planning a time line basic ships races and stuff like that

[immhotep]

Well theres alot more that needs to be decided. We need to consider the main options. Complete reset? Time we reset too. Elements to carry over/disregard? Future/Past? Where in the series do we break off? Do we keep things as they were or change them? Are we rewriting canon and adding too it.

These are big questions, if we want to do a full reset then we can. But we need to decide exactly when to reset too and how. Thats the main question. I believe that what we created was from what the SG universe have us, was a pretty good extrapolation of a future war with the wraith. It was perfect and im the first to admit that, but niether was the show and our flaw follow on from thiers. If you want stargate as we know then i think we have done a decent job. I personally would like a reset of the fleet universe to where the shows stopped in the MW. 1.0 did the PG from about 2020-2045. Theres a huge gap missing and we could correct alot without blowing things apart, we could even remake much of the SG1 storylines without too much damage. I think Earth's position at the end the of the Ori war is a perfect starting point for a fleet. Its just at the right time, the Ori war affected everyone, and there would be a power vacuum created by it. Advanced races which had been in shelter from the time sg1 emerged could start to expand and be at peace for a bit, at least with no supreme force threatening them. We could have a huge number of diverse races.
Also if we did meet a trading power, its possible that we integrated their trade network in to our own by the 2050's which is when 2.0 was set. Making that transition fine. Our brief history of the MW was that the earth expanded in secret and then the gate got exposed and things went bad. While we were focusing alot of resources from earth on fighting the wraith. There is alot of material to "fill in" thats great scope for all manner of storylines and races. Instead of reworking the old, lets bury it and move on to new material in the same universe. I think correcting all the mistakes of the show will get very complicated and messy and detract from creating new things.

[Crazy Tom]

Problem is that these ships roll off the production lines few and far apart. So we cant really do much until we reach a certain point, then we go "hey it's time we got a new ship, alright, this is where we are, this is what we have, this is what we need, what do we do?".

I'm not a fan of mixing the fleets directly, even a little, but it may just be psychological thing. But he's right about using the lessons we learned in the original fleets. For example, Earth never bothered acquiring a lot of tech from Hebridian, or exploited that naqudah Asteroid Anubis sent our way. A Ha'Tak is a big ship. Once we have our own ships, we can make a killing as a heavily armed merchantman, to pay for little acquisitions.

[Crazy Tom]

I disagree that correcting mistakes will distract us from making new things. Some things need to be addressed, to make the storyline more believable and realistic, thus enhancing quality. Ihat's why I propose with a re-imagined Season 1 finale that we've been discussing thus far, and fast forward,m altering things as we pass each episode, and soon we'll be totally out of the show's territory, where things will be significantly different from the show.

[guppy338]

There is many race we never fully exploited I can draw up a list if you want the Tec we could use off them form the show and make a reasonable assumption on other technology they would have.

[immhotep]

I actually think piracy would be a very effective use of some of our resources. Not total piracy, but if we tweak the timeline slightly and say that at the end of the war with Baal Earth took some of the Kull or Replicator Hataks. Perhaps a small fleet of replicator ships that were heading to earth to attack, when the replicators were wiped out they dropped out near the edge of our solar system. During the war with the ori they were either hidden or kept out of battle because we knew they were no match. We now have a small fleet of Hataks, that we are upgrading and retroengineering fully. Perhaps even with a few upgrades from the replicators, we know for example that they are faster and have better shields. It wouldnt be too farfetched to say that the replicators auto-upgraded the Hataks they took over with Asgard based shields and hyperdrives to give them an edge over Baal, we already know that Anubis was capable of performing similar upgrades so its beyond a hatak in terms of its tech level to be able to use asgard upgrades. We then fit them 302's instead of gliders, fit some rail guns and other weapons, perhaps find a way to patch in cloaking systems from the PJ in the way we do with atlantis. Thats a pretty decent ship with which to go out in to the galaxy. With a fleet we would be able to capture more of them and also defend our bases offworld. A Hatak in orbit of the naquadah mine the unas are using, would be great as a way of transporting the ore to a refinery or soem other production facility. Theres alot of potential for a fleet storyline in only some minor tweaks to canon, we dont need to rewrite the show in order to give us a foothold in to a fleet style fanfiction.

[Crazy Tom]

The problem is that the whole appeal of a reset is the fact that we do thing differently. If we keep too much of the old, then it loses that appeal.

Speaking of which, we should really redesign the F-302. The one on the show is a death trap help together by plot shields.

And How's everyone feed about allocating the 303 slot to an Al'Kesh size craft? Makes more sense than umping form a fighter to a 200 meter long battle cruiser (whose "battles" i can count on one hand).

[the-alguroan]

The problem is that the whole appeal of a reset is the fact that we do thing differently. If we keep too much of the old, then it loses that appeal.

Speaking of which, we should really redesign the F-302. The one on the show is a death trap help together by plot shields.

And How's everyone feed about allocating the 303 slot to an Al'Kesh size craft? Makes more sense than umping form a fighter to a 200 meter long battle cruiser (whose "battles" i can count on one hand).

- F-302 death trap? how?
- ya , a smaller ship is a better choice than the Prometheus, i never liked the big jump. plus when i watch lost city i get a bit annoyed since all that is really flying is the F-302's.

though if we start over i say we should use that idea of different teams that we can control ourselves, and each team helps get us farther into the story through their own adventures.

[colbmista]

should do a story bout the statadans