Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[thekillman]

thats much better, thanks.


yes but in SG they seem to be moderate against both.


besides, the plasma is a directed blast. so the majority of the energy is absorbed. a nuke or explosion only has 50% or so energy transfer to the shield, for a plasma blast it's closer to 90% or 95%.



kinetics VS particle :

particle also depends on beam or pulse. but when the beam is over .5c in speed, you'd get antimatter beams. well it doesn't become antimatter, but it's more or less the same effect. the damage types all get fuzzier the higher the speed is. at .14c the first dialation effects arrive, but it's not even significant up to about .5c. at .9c it's just pure annihilation. or probably even stronger than that.

plasma also depends on design. just a device that tosses hot plasma won't do much. but the type of weapons we've seen do about equal damage to shields and armor.


also, melting armor as i said is overrated.

[locutes]

well I do not have physics as part of my classes so I am not that well informed, I just tried to understand.

[guppy338]

Thanks for clearing it up for me

[thekillman]

don't have to be a physicist. and it doesn't have to be all perfect science.

[lord groovy]

i like it it give you a longer time sort out were you are going with it

Well something like this :

Spoiler:

1945, April 5 – Unknown place

At the top of a cliff over a raging ocean lies an ancient castle. In one of its towers, the distinctive sound of gate activation is to be heard. Unfortunately the place looks totally abandoned.

The large kawoosh and the event of horizon of the Stargate shed light for the first time in centuries. After some time, a person in standard diving dress exits the puddle. A flexible tube is still linked to the other side, with a rope just in case something goes wrong.

At first he expected to end at the bottom of an ocean or well at least a small lake but no need for that. Inside his helmet, Ernest Littlefield is in awe for mere seconds before muttering “I knew it”. He is in some kind of old building. There are some interesting rocks lying around, some definitely made by intelligent beings. He has to snap out of it as quickly as possible. The calculations he made before stepping through the puddle showed that he may have at best 5 minutes before the power run out and they would probably have to wait for weeks before making it back.

He goes quickly around his backpack for a bag then start putting some stones and what looks like some delicate porcelain pots in it. With enough chance, he could keep at least one for Catherine. That’s a far better gift than the usual wedding ring. Well it would probably be after he asks her father, Dr Langford. Surely such an important discovery would bring a smile on that stern face.

As he is heading to the gate, Ernest thinks about all he has to say to his colleagues when he will be back and to Catherine too. That was her idea that made the alien device, that “Doorway to Heavens”, works. By the way, they should find a better name, something simpler. He should ask Catherine about that. After asking her hand to Dr Langford of course…

Now, in front of the puddle, he takes a deep breath and looks at his portable watch. Only 5 minutes have passed. He should hurry. Next time, with more power they could hold the doorway open for a longer time. From now on, they should probably monitor the passage to avoid people bumping into each other. Maybe making two walkways, one for the incoming from Earth and the other the outgoing. Or have two gate activations. Before taking his first step, he just wonders how those that made that device manage the two-way traffic. They had to have some traffic lights. If not they could install one the next time too.

But nothing comes with the next step. He is still in the some ancient room. Except this time there is no more puddle, no more shimmering light, nothing but the dim light from the window. Did he went through the gate? When he look down at his feet, he understands that it is not the case : the rope has been cut clean. He just took too much time to get back.

He is looking warily at his surroundings. Maybe he can find a device to activate the doorway again. At the far side of the room there is something that has a distinctive form. As he got closer, he notes that it has somewhat the same design as the doorway. Surely some kind of control for it.

He wished he could walk faster but the diving dress is too heavy. He should probably remove it but he doesn’t know yet if he can breathe in that alien atmosphere. First thing to do is to make the device open a passage back to Earth, to Catherine. After that maybe he will verify if a human can breathe here or not. One step at a time.

Now in front of the second device, breathing heavily and sweating inside his protective suit, Ernest looks at the signs on the buttons on it. They are similar to the ones on the gate but he can’t recognize any of them. They are totally different from those on Earth’s doorway. What is he going to do? He can’t start punching every last of them until the ring device works. There are millions and millions combination possible.

No he can’t start panicking. Remember Catherine. The wedding. And the wedding pot. That would be a good joke to tell when he gets back. Afterall he was the one to figure the code to open the passage to this planet. He just has to do it again. He knows he can do it and he knows that at the other side they are repeating the experiment. It would take them a week or two to have enough energy to make it work again. But they will do it. They are the best scientists of all the country. They may even find a way to come at his rescue by the end of the day.

If he manages to make it work from that side, he won’t have to wait a week and he could gather enough data to make the next trips easier. He mustn’t give up and lose hope. One step at a time.

He takes a deep breath and removes his helmet… Five seconds into this atmosphere and he is still alive. There is still hope. He will make it back to Catherine. In a week he will be back and this time he will ask directly her hand to Dr Langford. No more delay. Either he is going to make the control device work or his colleagues will come at his rescue. One week of vacation at most.

Now back to work. He has his notes and the secondary device. He should probably find a name for it. Something better than secondary device. Well it’s supposed to get him back home and it looks like the rotary dials on the phones. What about a dial-home device, a D-H-D? That looks good. One step at a time.

To be continued...

[thekillman]

yes good idea. and since we know the Alliance knows eachother's languages, could we make the holo pedestal contain data on the elements themselves? and then there are multiple of these devices covering different areas?

[lord groovy]

2nd part :

Spoiler:

1945, June 21st – Heliopolis planet

It’s the middle of the day on Heliopolis planet. Ernest Littlefield stands in front of his DHD, still trying to figure out Earth code. For three days straight, he’s been trying different combinations he found on ancient scrolls around the castle. Unfortunately they were in such bad conditions that most of the time he cannot even make out the signs.

Up until now none of those he found worked. Probably after centuries without being used, the doorways connected to those “addresses” have been buried in sands like the one they found in Egypt. But well it’s just a theory. For now, only one address matters to him. He has to get out of Heliopolis.

Oh! Heliopolis is the name he chose for that planet. While exploring one of the rooms in the castle he found a device that projected forms in the air. At first he was afraid. The people that made such thing were surely really advanced compared to Earth and they probably wouldn’t be pleased if he messed up with their treasures. But after several weeks, no one came. Either through the doorway or the outside world. No one came at all.

So whenever he has spare time he comes to that room and studied the four panels on the walls. It didn’t take him long to understand that it was 4 different languages made by 4 different civilizations. That place was surely a place for them to meet and maybe share their view of the world, just like the late League of Nations or the future United Nations of Earth. Maybe inside all the data they left he could find a solution to get back home. Well, finally he chose Heliopolis because that ancient city had the same role in the past. It’s what Catherine said to him one time. He should ask her again… if he sees her again.

No! He is going to see her again. This time maybe the doorway will work. He studied the constellations out there. That’s the key. It should work. He just has to believe and it will work. It will certainly… And it did! Yes it is working. He has what? Maybe 5 minutes. He should hurry. He already has his notebooks and the garments he wear are sufficient enough. Time to go back home.

But what if it is not home? He can’t afford to make a mistake. If he leave and that’s not the right planet he may lose any chance of ever returning to Catherine. And if she comes to Heliopolis and doesn’t find him they will shut down the project and that would be the end. He’s sure Dr Langford will shut down the project. There is no reason for him to come rescue him finally. He didn’t like Ernest and Ernest didn’t like him either. Ernest only likes Catherine. Ernest should get back to Catherine and to Catherine only. He has to be sure.

He writes a small message for her on a sheet of paper and throws it in the puddle. Immediately after, it shuts down.

He made a mistake. He shouldn’t have done that. He shouldn’t have. Now he’s lost his only chance. No! No! He has the address he will wait for one day. That’s the standard time to schedule a doorway activation. One day should be enough. He can wait one day. He’s already been there for two months. One day should be enough. He has enough food for a week. He can wait one day. And then Catherine will come through the doorway and take him back home. Like an angel. That’s exactly that. She would be the angel leading Ernest through his Gate to Heaven.

Oh! Dial Home Device and Heaven’s Gate. That’s perfect names for the two devices. He should ask her. She’s surely going to like them.

Before that, he has to verify that it is the good address. How else could he do that ? Maybe with the portable radio system they gave him before he went through the Gate. He still has the helmet with the radio transmitter embedded in it. It was originally wired to the other side but he could make an antenna to replace that. He would then be able to transmit back through the puddle. And he’ll ask for Catherine and she will answer and she will come get him. He is a genius.

Now where’s the helmet and the metal wires he salvaged from his diving dress? Oh yes! Still in the Conference room where those 4 races used to held discussions. He should start making preparations.

Outside a storm is coming.

[Crazy Tom]

First off, I'm with Tep. We can't fix a lot SG's mistakes without turning into another show. I'm against a restart that goes back further than the series, it would just alienate people.

As to naquadah and it's exotic properties, let them stay, they break the laws of physics in well defined ways that don't spill over into anything else and can be considered acceptable breaks form reality.

Now, as to weapons, Earth would not be making many weapons at first. we can cover that when we get to out first ship. So we have the X-301 Death Glider hybrid, then we have some sort of intermediate X-302 recon/bomber ship, the size of an Al'kesh, something like the Dreadnaught from I-War, then we can think about a 200m long behemoth like the Prometheus. (I recommend you read up on the I-War universe, it's the only game I know that makes fully realistic space based conflict fun to play, and it's equipment isn't outrageous either.)

As to weapons, I think we should avoid rigid classing, it hinders creativity, rather we should apply our collective brainpower to creating weapons that fit each specific function as it comes up.

For example, a Goa'uld staff canon is a useful weapon, requiring no ammunition, and having enough power to fight Goa'uld single-ships. So put four in a box frame, wire them to cooling systems, and fire them sequentially like a Gatling gun. Through... through CIWS would be cheaper against Death Gliders, it wouldn't be able to do much to an Al'kesh.

As to episodes, this is an example:

The First Commandment
-The SGC establishes an off-world research camp on P3X-513 to study Goa'uld Sun Shield Technology.

Cold Lazarus
-Research camp is established on P3X-562 to study the Unity life form.

Brief Candle
-The SGC confiscates the Goa'uld nanite controller and large samples of nanocytes.

etc.

And we can get more detailed as required. The Unity crystal could pretty much read people's minds, so it would come in very useful to develop ties with it, we can ask it to read Goa'uld minds and tell us what they know and in return provide it with readily available energy and resources o help it grow and repopulate.

The Sun shield and the nanites would take longer to benefit us, as research would be done, but the nanites would be a great bargaining chip with Orban later on. Knowledge is power, even if we only have schematics of the Sun shield, they could still be worth something.

[lord groovy]

3rd and final part :

Spoiler:

1945, June 22nd – Heliopolis planet

The whole castle is shaking under the storm outside. In the Gate room, Ernest is trying to keep calm and think straight. It may be his only chance to get back to Earth.

No one came yesterday. This time he will activate the Heaven’s Gate and start transmitting with his home made radio until it shuts down. Then wait five minutes. If nothing happens he will step through the next time. Were he to get in hostile territory, he will just step back to Heliopolis. It would take only few seconds for him to assess the situation. Seriously nothing could happen during those fow seconds.

The weather is getting worse outside. The roofs are leaking and the wind’s blowing through the walls as if they were not there. If only he had some tools, he could move the DHD and the Gate to a safer place. Somewhere deep inside the castle. Unfortunately, he will just have to put it. At least, for the next minutes. After that he will either be back at the Conference room or at home.

Time for activation. As he pushes the button, the inner ring of the Gate spins and locks the corresponding signs. When the last one is entered, the kawoosh (Ernest hasn’t found a better name yet) happens and is soon replaced by the shimmering puddle.

Holding his transmitter, Ernest doesn’t know what to say. It’s the first time in two months that he is going to talk to another being and he doesn’t know what to say. That’s pathetic. What is she going to think of him?

Well, “Catherine, I am here. I am alive… I will be coming back… I will be coming back. Just…Just wait for me… If you got that message, answer.” (Nothing but static.) ”If you can’t answer, I will step through the Gate. No the Doorway. I mean the Doorway... I will step through the Doorway in 5 minutes.”

Still static. Maybe she didn’t hear me. Outside, the storm is getting stronger and stronger. Maybe it’s Ernest that cannot hear Catherine. Or maybe she’s not here. He should have asked for Dr Langford. But that’s too late. His batteries won’t last long. He has to make a decision.

The Gate shuts down. 5 minutes left. He start walking towards the DHD.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!

What happened? He can’t see anything. He was bathed in a brilliant light. An angel apparition? No! that can’t be possible : the Gate was closed.

He’s lying down on his back and can’t get up. But he has to. Only five minutes Dammit! 5 minutes. If he needs to crawl, he would do it! One step at a time!

The wind is so strong. Surely the windows gave out. But he can’t afford it. There are little sharp rocks everywhere on the floor. They are hurting him but not enough to make him stop.

His vision is returning slowly. Everything's blurred. That would be enough for now. From what he can see, the windows didn’t just give out, they were disintegrated and a huge hole sit at their place in the middle of the wall. That’s why the wind was so strong. Apart from the fact that there was a gigantic storm outside.

But that’s of no consequence to him : the DHD is still there. He can still dial home. Or so he thought.

The device is dead. Something, maybe the lightning, destroyed it. Ernest pushes the buttons frenetically but they refuse to work. The whole world refuses to work. It was his only chance and that world denied it to him. Why? WHY? All he wanted was to get back home. That couldn’t hurt anybody or anything. It just wasn’t fair to Ernest! It wasn’t!

No wait! Ernest could do it the old way! Ernest could spin the rings manually. Ernest would only have seconds before the kawoosh happens but Ernest can do it! Ernest has to do it!

Ernest limps back to the Gate, his Heaven’s Gate. One sign at a time. The winds is strong but not strong enough to stop Ernest. One sign. The first one. Easy to do. The whole thing is heavy to Ernest but not that heavy. Ernest can do it. Ernest just have to think about Catherine. Ernest is doing this for Catherine. Catherine’s going to be proud, to be happy, to be supportive, to be funny, to be beautiful, to be everything from now on. No more Gate travel. No more science. Ernest will buy a small cabin next to lake and they will be fishing. Ernest knows a lot about it and Ernest will be teaching Catherine. Just one sign! Just one! Just the first one!

Please God! Just the first one!


1945, June 23rd – Heliopolis planet

In the middle of the Gate room, lies Ernest. Ernest is weak. Ernest can’t do anything. Ernest is going to live his life alone. Lost among the stars. Far from those Ernest loves.

Ernest has hoped he could get back home. But Ernest could not. Catherine has been saying that he should try again after some rest. But Ernest doesn’t believe Catherine? She is saying that to give him courage. But that’s not courage that Ernest needs. It’s the knowledge to make the DHD work again. It’s the only solution.

The storm is gone now. Ernest can finally stand again and start exploring the castle. The solution must be there somewhere. Anything could do : instructions, technical drawings, anything. Ernest will look again in the scrolls and the projection device. This time Catherine will be helping him sorting through all this data and they are going to work it out.

Ernest is even hearing her tell him to not give up. Ernest can’t give up. Ernest will make it back home. One step at a time. First thing : open his eyes. Then eat and explore.

And Ernest opens his eyes on a helmet. A diving helmet like the one he has. But this one looks newer and there seems to be someone’s head in it. Blond hairs. Odd… Catherine had blond hairs.

“Ernest! Ernest! Please answer! It’s me Catherine! Please! Wake up! It’s me!”

That can’t be true. He must be hallucinating. But soon the helmet goes off but the head stays in place. It really looks like Catherine. But… no… he has lost his mind. That can’t be possible. He is losing hope. If he gives up, he will never be able to get back to the real Catherine.

But that one looks so true. She’s even pouring water slowly in his mouth. He didn’t know that hallucination could be that vivid. He wonders if he can touch her. Surely not but it’s probably worth the effort.

His left arm is so heavy. His elbow aches like hell. His fingers are so cold. Her skin is so soft and warm and wet. She’s crying. Really crying. Like the real Catherine.

“You got my message?”
“Yes! I got your message! And I am here with you this time!”
“You came… for me?”
“Of course! This time I am staying with you”
“But … the DHD is broken and the castle is unstable and the Gate ring is too heavy to move and… and you are stuck with me. You shouldn't have. You shouldn't. I am sorry. ”
“No, no, no. We are going to be together. And we are going to solve it. I have brought supplies and engineers and scientists. We are going to make it work again. And we will get back home. And you will finally ask my hand to my father. One step at a time.”

Ernest hadn’t smile for two months. He has been thinking, sulking, even crying. Now was his first true smile in a long time. All this while holding tightly Catherine’s hand. He won’t let her go. Ever.

….

“Oh! What is that DHD thing?”
“Well it’s the Dial Home Device – D.H.D. That device there. I used it to activate the Gate, I mean the Doorway to Heaven.”
“Oh that’s perfect names. DHD and Gate like in StarGate. That’s exactly what they do. One makes you input the code to get back to Earth and the other opens ways to the stars. That’s where you get the idea. Right?
“Uh…Exactly!” He couldn’t tell her yet about the angels. He must show her that he was strong during all that time.
“ And once they are repaired we will be able to explore the galaxy and discover amazing things and outstanding alien civilizations unlike those on Earth.”
“ For that you don’t need to go to other stars. I have already found something that would amaze you already. Follow me.”

Finally, he was so weak that she was the one leading him. But that didn’t bother him because she either couldn’t stop holding his hand. They were together.

a little cheesy?

[Crazy Tom]

Except for the part where the DHD was broken form the beginning, hence he never could dial out.

[lord groovy]

Except for the part where the DHD was broken form the beginning, hence he never could dial out.

Well I just assumed that when Carter said that it happened a long time ago, she meant that it could be at any time between several millenias and several decades ago.

And I think that I will keep only one or maybe two working pedestals in Heliopolis base. Since they each contain some kind of powersource (Ancient origin?) they would represent a far too significant boost for Earth. Currently they just need one to make the DHD work again and figure how to replace it with homemade dialing device.

Once back on Earth they will have to put up with a new world : end of WW2, birth of the UN, birth of nuclear technology and computers, the planet is undergoing massive political and economic transformations. Things happening too fast won't do any good. At least, for now I am just talking about the Heliopolis Expedition. Later it would really become the Alpha site (once they have moved the stargate to a safer place than the Alliance castle) with facilities, research centers, military bases and permanent teams stationed there.

The only thing I have not figured out is when would it stop being a US-run program and become a G8 (or G20) program. Maybe when the Berlin Wall fell in 1989. Any ideas?

[the-alguroan]

lord groovy, I would assume after the cold war so in the 90's would be a good time, though i'm not sure how the Russians will react to finding out that the gate exists, and that America has it. Also will the beta gate in Antarctica be discovered?

[Crazy Tom]

As I've said before, a historical AU is a bad idea in my opinion. Too weird. People like SG-1, I say we keep it.

I just had an idea: what if during the episode 1969, SG-1 broke the temporal prime directive so to speak, and gave Hammond tips, like a note to be opened on a certain date, directing him to take certain actions? We know the SG time line is a Timey Whimey Ball with no understandable cause and effect, cue the time clones and the alternate time lines.

So Earth would contact the Tok'Ra ahead of time, they would know about Apohis's attack on earth (Within The Serpent's Grasp), etc. Allowing us to speed things up considerably. Say by setting up some ring platforms and beaming aboard a few companies of marines once their in orbit, neatly avoiding the huge gap in Earth's defenses with two new memberships and the highly visible explosion of two spaceships the size of the great pyramids.

[lord groovy]

lord groovy, I would assume after the cold war so in the 90's would be a good time, though i'm not sure how the Russians will react to finding out that the gate exists, and that America has it. Also will the beta gate in Antarctica be discovered?

At first I was thinking it would be found like in the original story : by accident, when Ernest and Catherine come back. But since they have still to discover that gate travel is only one way and not two-way, I would like to avoid adding this to the story. It would result in unnecessary and severe casualties.

It would rather be the Russian exploring the tremors happening in Antarctica each time the First Gate is activated and bringing it back. Since they already have the egyptian DHD, they know what it is but not how it works. During the cold war, they will use the information gathered by their spies to copy US programs. Maybe even have their own mining colony. Why not have them find about Naquadah (but well renamed by the communists) and make nuclear reactors out of it?

After the fall of Berlin Wall, and the cooperation between the different nations, they could at first share/sell the Naquadah reactors to the SGC and participate in the construction of the first space ship (a very crappy one). Between the 90s and 2010, it would an intensive competition between the two superpowers to uncover alien technology and exploit alien resources. NATO countries would work rather with the US while developing countries ( Brazil, China, India, Iran and so on) are with the Russians.

Finally circa 2010, after the current crisis, both their programs would be merged and gave birth to the IOA and an international version of the SGC (ISGC anyone?).

Note: Russia seems to have the advantage here : they have Naquadah reactors and 2 DHDs. They are the only one who can hold the gate opened for 38 minutes and that whenever they want. They can afford making regular short offworld missions while the American teams are bound to make long missions (often months).

That's why they are making permanent bases and are upgrading quite rapidly the Alpha site. Until the day they meet the Orbanians and make the portable Naquadah generator we've seen in the series.

[the-alguroan]

since the whole AU stargate is a bit undecided, though lord groovy's could still work to get us to present day SG-1 only with a few modifications here and there. basically making us take a different path and still end up with the same basic outline. The only difference is that our gate has been running longer but our exploration really doesn't take off till round the late 1990's. example, we could have very crude ships and understanding though planning for this is gonna take time because if something like this is done we may make it impossible for certain events to occur.

- lord groovy
so basically while the Americans are running a gate program the Russians are too, and both sides are hiding their exploits till the time where the gate program is international. I would like to see some Russian based teams and such, since a Russian SG-1 team would be interesting to read about.

Though messing with a time line in any case is a bad idea, we need the doctor to aid us with this one. does anyone have an intergalactic temporal phone?