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  1. #81
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    i just don't think they're gonna help us that way.

    i think the Altairans should be physically about the strenght of a human in good condition. nothing fancy. and their memory shouldn't be massive either. on the job of calculations, yes they'd be good.

    if we were to build an android right now, a human could defeat it easily in hand-to-hand combat. but i think an Altairan as a friend would be nice.

    i thiink an alien "ambassador" for some of our friends would work nice. having a tok'ra around, or a an Altairan.


    i think the F-302 should become available earlier, just as the Railgun.
    Actually, we saw in the episode that they could jump great distances and bend metal with their hands, so they are pretty strong, still I expect they need maintenance or something, like all machines. And we don't have to build 'e, the facilities exist on Altair, so we can use that advanced manufacturing capability.

    As to their minds, I doubt their fully electronic, some sort of composite electro-chemical computer probably. When somebody is scanned, their synaptic connections are mapped and the android brain is wired identically. Like a normal brain with nanoprocessors (like the Orbanian ones) instead of neurons.

    A Tok'Ra operative on loan to Earth would be great, not just as a source of information, but as help with reverse-engineering alien tech.

    Railguns and F-302s an be introduced earlier, but we still have to keep in mind the industrial bottleneck when dealing with a black program like the SGC, the only way I see to get these things faster would be to outsource a lot of production to places like Orban, Hebridian and Optrica.

    Speaking of which, can we agree on capturing Klorel's Ha'Tak? If Hammond moved on Daniel's warning immediately, and stalled Kingsley, they can find out it's a ship and begin boarding action.

  2. #82
    Lieutenant Colonel Dr Lee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    I've got an idea for a small group of Tau'ri....

    Spoiler:
    it's a small, but global, band of tau'ri that gain access to some tech. Nothing more than maybe Ion Drive and a Goa'uld Cargo ship Hyperdrive.... maybe ring tech.

    With this they are able to create no more than 4 ships (i'm leaning towards the ship on the right of my sig, minus the big guns) and they move around the Milky Way as a similar group to any SG program, but with slightly looser morals (Got the phrase 'Morally Grey' in my head for this).

    the idea is that they wouldn't be a direct bad guy for an SG program.... but they'd butt heads often, though they'd never do anything, or leave proof of anything, that'll have any SG program try and shut them down.


    what do you think?
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  3. #83
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    It's the Trust. Depends when their introduced, the main problem with small groups is that they have a limited story potential.

  4. #84
    Major bradly08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    I've had an idea of a seperate Human race in my head for a while and here would probibly be the best place to show it off.

    Spoiler:
    Right this group of humans are from a planet on the outer rim of the galaxy (which helps explain why the goa'uld have left them alone). They have had FTL capabilities for hundreds of years now (Similar technology wise with that of humany in Halo) and as such have a sizeable empire. They would be very militaristic society due to the threat of the Goa'uld and is ruled by a government similar to communism (Only this one actually works).

    They are happy enough with the status quo as they have plenty of breathing space and the goa'uld are too busy fighting each other than to take them seriously. But when a situation presents itself they will answer the call.

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  5. #85
    First Lieutenant guppy338's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Spoiler:
    I don’t like reading about militaristic society because not one Pearson who has written a fan fiction that I have read has got them right yet. They try to make them too nice

  6. #86
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Actually, we saw in the episode that they could jump great distances and bend metal with their hands, so they are pretty strong, still I expect they need maintenance or something, like all machines. And we don't have to build 'e, the facilities exist on Altair, so we can use that advanced manufacturing capability.

    As to their minds, I doubt their fully electronic, some sort of composite electro-chemical computer probably. When somebody is scanned, their synaptic connections are mapped and the android brain is wired identically. Like a normal brain with nanoprocessors (like the Orbanian ones) instead of neurons.
    it's not my fear for AI but for the superhuman abilities. i'm fine with endurance, not with the strength. i have thought of a machine allied race for my fanfic ideas, and it works, but there are prerequisites. first off, any maker with intellect would make them human-like, otherwise the robots don't have the same goal. these are humans, which is why i fear the superhuman part.


    A Tok'Ra operative on loan to Earth would be great, not just as a source of information, but as help with reverse-engineering alien tech.

    Railguns and F-302s an be introduced earlier, but we still have to keep in mind the industrial bottleneck when dealing with a black program like the SGC, the only way I see to get these things faster would be to outsource a lot of production to places like Orban, Hebridian and Optrica.

    Speaking of which, can we agree on capturing Klorel's Ha'Tak? If Hammond moved on Daniel's warning immediately, and stalled Kingsley, they can find out it's a ship and begin boarding action.
    yes i'm thinking of this on multiple levels: not only does america only share the alien technology research, but with the tok'ra i imagine the same: earth brings in cool stuff, and the tok'ra help research, gaining knowledge for themselves aswel.

    well we'd have the 8 main industrial nations in control, so it's a bit easier.

    also, yes a ha'tak is useful. i don't think it's gonna give us spaceships in a year, but at least mapping the thing, locating important primarly and secondary systems and some sort of control interface is gonna be useful.


    and a traveller-like race seems quite good to me. not to big a fan of major empires or small groups.

  7. #87
    First Lieutenant guppy338's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    I like the ha'tak idea form what I understand a ha’tak does not just carry gliders they have cargo ships and al’cesh as well.

  8. #88
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    it's not my fear for AI but for the superhuman abilities. i'm fine with endurance, not with the strength. i have thought of a machine allied race for my fanfic ideas, and it works, but there are prerequisites. first off, any maker with intellect would make them human-like, otherwise the robots don't have the same goal. these are humans, which is why i fear the superhuman part.
    Sorry, you lost me.

    yes i'm thinking of this on multiple levels: not only does america only share the alien technology research, but with the tok'ra i imagine the same: earth brings in cool stuff, and the tok'ra help research, gaining knowledge for themselves aswel.

    well we'd have the 8 main industrial nations in control, so it's a bit easier.

    also, yes a ha'tak is useful. i don't think it's gonna give us spaceships in a year, but at least mapping the thing, locating important primarly and secondary systems and some sort of control interface is gonna be useful.
    Oh definitely, but having one would do two important things: it would give Earth a real line of defense against future attack and it would prove to potential allies that when we take a souvenir we don't **** around, so to speak. Capturing Klorel's Ha'Tak would also likely allow us to contact the Tok'Ra earlier, I think it isn't to far fetched that they had an operative aboard.

    Quote Originally Posted by guppy338 View Post
    I like the ha'tak idea form what I understand a ha’tak does not just carry gliders they have cargo ships and al’cesh as well.
    The Al'kest have never been confirmed and the tal'taks seemed to be missing in the first season finale. So I'm playing it conservative just to be on the safe side.

  9. #89
    First Lieutenant lord groovy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Tom View Post
    Oh definitely, but having one would do two important things: it would give Earth a real line of defense against future attack and it would prove to potential allies that when we take a souvenir we don't **** around, so to speak. Capturing Klorel's Ha'Tak would also likely allow us to contact the Tok'Ra earlier, I think it isn't to far fetched that they had an operative aboard.
    In their first episode, the Tok'ra already confirmed that they had operatives on Apophis's and Klorel's Ha'tak. I just wonder how we are really going to capture two ships full of Jaffas. That would be a massive operation that would later not go unnoticed by the other System Lords.

    And probably, to "ensure our safety", the Tok'ras would want to bring back at least one of those to the Goa'ulds. They would then be able to use that in their mind game, telling something like :

    " We had a good look at them! There is no way they were regular humans. Rather slaves enlisted by one of the other System Lords... BTW we found a spy of [insert Goa'uld name here] among us. Action must be taken."
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  10. #90
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Something like that:

    Upon finding it's a ship, Hammond takes operational command of Cheyenne mountain and sends every man with a gun he can find through the gate. But not before requisitioning every canister of sleepy gas he can get his hands on. Thus the fight for Ha'Tak begins with the pumping of large quantities of sleepy gas and visibility obscuring gas into the hallways, which human marines equipped with infrared optics use to their advantage.
    Furthermore, they can use on site equipment like zats and shock grenades stockpiled for the invasion of earth, as well as the sarcophagus to resurrect their dead.
    Another idea would be to get the bridge and mess with environmentals, pump CO2 back into the ship's air until everyone falls unconscious.

    When Apophis' flagship arrives and begins to send reinforcements, SG-1 sends the nuke they brought along (in case the mission failed) over, and blows up Apophis.

    And basically, yeah, have the Tok'Ra blame some other Goa'uld for the attack.

  11. #91
    First Lieutenant lord groovy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    One last question : how resilient are the Jaffa now ?

    (If they are all like Teal'c, you could pump gallons and gallons of sleeping gas or CO2 into the ship, they won't even flinch. Just keep shooting until everyone's dead.)
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  12. #92
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    I expect half a clip each? Maybe more, depending on the quality of their armor and how much ducking they do. But soldiers would be appropriating Zats conveniently staked inside the gate room for some reason, as well as Staff weapons off incapacitated Jaffa, both weapons have been shown to take down Jaffa with one blast, and in close quarters, aiming is easier.

    Point taken on the gas. What about just thinning the atmospheric pressure until everyone passed out?

  13. #93
    First Lieutenant guppy338's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    how resilient are the Jaffa now?
    it does not matter they have to breath and the gas is inhaled and put into the blood stream and then to the brain we also could pump in different types of nerve gas or bio weapons that can immobilise or kill them then we can safely stole onto the ship in has mat and then take control of the ship and then just ring over a different canister to a different ship along with flash bangs.

  14. #94
    Chief Master Sergeant the-alguroan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Tom View Post
    I expect half a clip each? Maybe more, depending on the quality of their armor and how much ducking they do. But soldiers would be appropriating Zats conveniently staked inside the gate room for some reason, as well as Staff weapons off incapacitated Jaffa, both weapons have been shown to take down Jaffa with one blast, and in close quarters, aiming is easier.

    Point taken on the gas. What about just thinning the atmospheric pressure until everyone passed out?

    i don't think the jaffa will not be able to withstand something like that. i am for the idea of travelers, hell they don't even need to be on the run from the gouald . they could have lost their planet in a war or something, hopefully their ships will be better designed then the travelers.
    time doesn't go in a linear path like everyone thinks, time is a ball of timey wimey wibbly wobblely uh....

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  15. #95
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Actually, the Jaffa are pretty resistant to biochemical attacks, Tea'lk is walking around without a Hazmat suit in Singularity since he's immune to disease, and the Symbiote can do a lot of stuff to keep its Jaffa operational.

  16. #96
    Major General immhotep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    If we knew it was a ship then we could pump in nerve gas and other bioweapons through the gate, and then go in with Hazmat or gas masks. The jaffa are not completely immune to toxins and have no visible signs of gas masks or the like. We wouldnt need sybmiote poison to wipe out a Hatak if we could gain access. And especially in the early years the capture of hataks could have been far better.

    Im impressed by the ideas for new races and ideas that are coming through, the creative juices are making some really exciting things happen. Can i ask peoples opinions on continuing some of the work from the previous fleets. We had a storyline in the pipeline involving a new form of engine that allowed us to travel to alternative universes. Basicly able to cross between the fleets future timeline and another perhaps earlier time period Paralell to our own.

    My idea would be to take elements from the first gen fleets and transfer them to a new universe, one where things have happened which made certain parts of the show far more realistic, perhaps the goauld are never wiped out, the replicators are a major thread, the wraith are still around. I would like some parts of the fleet to be kept, bits that worked and used in a new universe. I wont list everything to keep but i would like to see some of the old features kept, like the Asgard having a small class of ship than the Oniell, a combat version of the Jackson class for example. A more aggressive and comprehensive hold over the economics of the galaxy, i actually really liked the trade station ideas from 2.0, space stations set up by the tauri to network with and trade with advanced races for both technology and intelligence. They dont even have to be Tauri, but perhaps we do find an advanced race which has stargates on a network of space stations that trade technology and we can get involved in those commercial activities. Giving us a legitimate source of technology and intel and a mandate to aquire and explore commercial aspects of the gate, to set up mines and network to get ships produced offworld, or directly buy other ships. I think Promethius Unbound is a really nice example of the black market system we could really profit from, the SGC cant go public on earth so uses offworld economics as its source of revenue. I would like to see an organisation similar to archgate be founded, or for the SGC to have a more significant civilian and diplomatic wing, which could take in the more political and diplomatic parts of what people are suggesting.

    I dont think every element of the old need disregarding, there are some very valid and good ideas that might be great additions to the general stargate fleet universe whatever form it takes. I think having a fleet of 3.0 ships trapped in a SG1 time frame would be a bit unfair, but perhaps a single ship crashes on a planet as a failed attempt to test these new engines, they give a "glimpse" of a future earth but have to treat themselves with a bit of distance because interfering would damage the timeline. But at the same time they then come under attack from old enemies that still pack a punch, such as a revamped goauld or ori armarda. I still think for all that people complain about how the old fleets uber things up, they would still be the underdog even at this point if facing a credible representation of the enemies SG1 had. A fully fledged goauld empire or Ori campaign would still prove an incredible challenge to 3.0 Tauri.

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  17. #97
    First Lieutenant guppy338's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    I think we should take a vote on the ideas and then go from there in planning a time line basic ships races and stuff like that

  18. #98
    Major General immhotep's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Well theres alot more that needs to be decided. We need to consider the main options. Complete reset? Time we reset too. Elements to carry over/disregard? Future/Past? Where in the series do we break off? Do we keep things as they were or change them? Are we rewriting canon and adding too it.

    These are big questions, if we want to do a full reset then we can. But we need to decide exactly when to reset too and how. Thats the main question. I believe that what we created was from what the SG universe have us, was a pretty good extrapolation of a future war with the wraith. It was perfect and im the first to admit that, but niether was the show and our flaw follow on from thiers. If you want stargate as we know then i think we have done a decent job. I personally would like a reset of the fleet universe to where the shows stopped in the MW. 1.0 did the PG from about 2020-2045. Theres a huge gap missing and we could correct alot without blowing things apart, we could even remake much of the SG1 storylines without too much damage. I think Earth's position at the end the of the Ori war is a perfect starting point for a fleet. Its just at the right time, the Ori war affected everyone, and there would be a power vacuum created by it. Advanced races which had been in shelter from the time sg1 emerged could start to expand and be at peace for a bit, at least with no supreme force threatening them. We could have a huge number of diverse races.
    Also if we did meet a trading power, its possible that we integrated their trade network in to our own by the 2050's which is when 2.0 was set. Making that transition fine. Our brief history of the MW was that the earth expanded in secret and then the gate got exposed and things went bad. While we were focusing alot of resources from earth on fighting the wraith. There is alot of material to "fill in" thats great scope for all manner of storylines and races. Instead of reworking the old, lets bury it and move on to new material in the same universe. I think correcting all the mistakes of the show will get very complicated and messy and detract from creating new things.

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  19. #99
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    Problem is that these ships roll off the production lines few and far apart. So we cant really do much until we reach a certain point, then we go "hey it's time we got a new ship, alright, this is where we are, this is what we have, this is what we need, what do we do?".

    I'm not a fan of mixing the fleets directly, even a little, but it may just be psychological thing. But he's right about using the lessons we learned in the original fleets. For example, Earth never bothered acquiring a lot of tech from Hebridian, or exploited that naqudah Asteroid Anubis sent our way. A Ha'Tak is a big ship. Once we have our own ships, we can make a killing as a heavily armed merchantman, to pay for little acquisitions.

  20. #100
    Brigadier General Crazy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

    I disagree that correcting mistakes will distract us from making new things. Some things need to be addressed, to make the storyline more believable and realistic, thus enhancing quality. Ihat's why I propose with a re-imagined Season 1 finale that we've been discussing thus far, and fast forward,m altering things as we pass each episode, and soon we'll be totally out of the show's territory, where things will be significantly different from the show.

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