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    #76
    Originally posted by blackluster View Post
    I'm not sure about Wray, but I think Rush's issues with Young's leadership have compounded over some time.

    It probably starts with their power problems, where instead of taking on advice regarding the situation, Young attempts a gate dial and activating various systems, resulting in a major crisis on board. From there, in the midst of a dangerous situation with Telford's entire plan with the weapons system and sun dipping which threatened to end in complete disaster, Young was more concerned with his wife. Rush would most certainly have noted his absence. Later, we see the incident in water where Young is willing to risk everyone's life for Scott's sake in what amounts to rather terrible judgment. If it hadn't been for a stroke of luck in that tremor occurring, the crew may well have been consigned to death by dehydration. The straw that breaks the camel's back for Rush is probably the chair, since Young expects them to get everyone home quickly, but he forbids study on the chair. Then when Franklin disobeys orders and sits in the chair by his own will, Young promptly blames Rush for it.

    Add to this the constant accusations and suspicion directed at Rush and Young's campaign of overt surveillance against all the civilians, then I think one can see the issues with his leadership extend well beyond petty bickering or petulance on the part of the civilians. Most of these people are scientists and Young persists in treating them like idiots.
    I'm sorry but that's petty bickering. I think we all have better reason to frame our own boss for murder.
    Currently watching: Dark Matter, 12 Monkeys, Doctor Who, Under the Dome, The Mentalist, The Messengers, The Last Ship, Elementary, Dominion, The Whispers, Extant, Olympus, Da Vinci's Demons, Vikings

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      #77
      Originally posted by Commander Zelix View Post
      I'm sorry but that's petty bickering. I think we all have better reason to frame our own boss for murder.
      But, as Rush stated in "Justice", he didn't think the charge would stick - it was just a convenient way to get Young out of command, which was Rush's goal. He is very, shall we say, goal-oriented.
      sigpic
      Goodbye and Good Travels, Destiny!

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        #78
        Originally posted by carmencatalina View Post
        But, as Rush stated in "Justice", he didn't think the charge would stick - it was just a convenient way to get Young out of command, which was Rush's goal. He is very, shall we say, goal-oriented.
        Thats beyond what I'm interested me in here. I'm just saying it would be better if the mutiny and all the bickering was sustained by stronger moral/philosophical dilemma or differences. The way it is presented, its more like a typical soap opera drama about people (family) who don't like each other. There's no depth to it.
        Currently watching: Dark Matter, 12 Monkeys, Doctor Who, Under the Dome, The Mentalist, The Messengers, The Last Ship, Elementary, Dominion, The Whispers, Extant, Olympus, Da Vinci's Demons, Vikings

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          #79
          Originally posted by Commander Zelix View Post
          I'm just saying it would be better if the mutiny and all the bickering was sustained by stronger moral/philosophical dilemma or differences. T.
          I think I'm not being clear - what I'm trying to say is that, for Rush, the motivation for the "bickering" (as you call it) is his belief (unfounded or correct, either way, it is his belief) that Young is not fit for command. That's a strong philosophical difference - Rush thinks Young can't make the "big decisions" (as he puts it in "Justice") and that he is the wrong man for the job. He wants him out.
          sigpic
          Goodbye and Good Travels, Destiny!

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            #80
            Originally posted by carmencatalina View Post
            I think I'm not being clear - what I'm trying to say is that, for Rush, the motivation for the "bickering" (as you call it) is his belief (unfounded or correct, either way, it is his belief) that Young is not fit for command. That's a strong philosophical difference - Rush thinks Young can't make the "big decisions" (as he puts it in "Justice") and that he is the wrong man for the job. He wants him out.
            I'm sorry but that's petty bickering by definition. Its not completely bad, but I could have imagined something with more depth.
            Currently watching: Dark Matter, 12 Monkeys, Doctor Who, Under the Dome, The Mentalist, The Messengers, The Last Ship, Elementary, Dominion, The Whispers, Extant, Olympus, Da Vinci's Demons, Vikings

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              #81
              I guess I just don't agree that it is petty; who leads seems like an important point.
              sigpic
              Goodbye and Good Travels, Destiny!

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                #82
                Originally posted by carmencatalina View Post
                I guess I just don't agree that it is petty; who leads seems like an important point.
                I tend to agree with Young more then Rush as I see Rush agreement can't make the big decisions more along the lines of wont let him risk people lives for a possible payoff- ie the Chair.

                If he can't argue the point he will try to force the point with the carrot and stick. Look Young, theres a planet that can save us . All we need is the master code . So know will you let me put somebody in the chair. NO.. well time just to use the stick.

                And while Wray and the Civies may have issue with the military not power sharing. The SGC was first and foremost a military program. They may need the scientist but there the ones on the front line and first to fall if need be. I get that there not happy, but I will always trust those trained to survive and fight in the situation that they are in over those who are not.

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                  #83
                  I don't think Rush really wants to be in charge. He wants someone in charge who will leave him alone and do what he wants.
                  I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

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                    #84
                    That's effectively the relationship he had with Wray. All he wanted from her was control of his science team to do with what he will.
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                    More fun @ Spoofgate!

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                      #85
                      Originally posted by CZ
                      I'm sorry but that's petty bickering. I think we all have better reason to frame our own boss for murder.
                      I'm not sure how you've equated steps against life threatening incompetence to petty bickering. It seems like nonsensical devaluing of the argument.

                      Originally posted by Tuvok
                      And while Wray and the Civies may have issue with the military not power sharing. The SGC was first and foremost a military program. They may need the scientist but there the ones on the front line and first to fall if need be. I get that there not happy, but I will always trust those trained to survive and fight in the situation that they are in over those who are not.
                      I dunno guy, the significant factor here is that they are not in the SGC. They are far from oversight and far from support as well. Unless someone comes up with a brilliant idea, they aren't getting home anytime soon either. The situation calls for a slightly more evolved outlook on leadership than "the SG program is a military program so therefore the military rules".

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by blackluster View Post
                        I'm not sure how you've equated steps against life threatening incompetence to petty bickering. It seems like nonsensical devaluing of the argument.

                        I dunno guy, the significant factor here is that they are not in the SGC. They are far from oversight and far from support as well. Unless someone comes up with a brilliant idea, they aren't getting home anytime soon either. The situation calls for a slightly more evolved outlook on leadership than "the SG program is a military program so therefore the military rules".
                        First point of call is Survive.

                        The military runs things because that is what they are trained to do. Keep everyone safe and focused. If Young was a terrible leader and Wray a better choice then I would have no problem with him being replaced. The fact remains that Wray is leader of Personal , doesnt scream worthy to lead the ship and look over the castaways in dangerous and unknown waters.

                        Does Young need to focus on getting home. Yes. Does he need to be replaced, no . Mainly because he is trained to lead and the other options for leadership of the sorry crew are definately nothing to write home about.

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                          #87
                          Originally posted by Tuvok
                          First point of call is Survive.
                          True they need to survive, though in many aspects this is something more dependent on Rush than any of the other personnel, military or otherwise. The fact of the matter is, that in quite a few instances so far, much of the decision making that has been critical to survival has not been uniquely military in origin, nor did they require the skills of a soldier to make. In some ways that I think is Rush's charge against Young, being his poor judgment where a better, more holistic point of view was required to make the decision.

                          The military runs things because that is what they are trained to do. Keep everyone safe and focused. If Young was a terrible leader and Wray a better choice then I would have no problem with him being replaced. The fact remains that Wray is leader of Personal , doesnt scream worthy to lead the ship and look over the castaways in dangerous and unknown waters.

                          Does Young need to focus on getting home. Yes. Does he need to be replaced, no . Mainly because he is trained to lead and the other options for leadership of the sorry crew are definately nothing to write home about.
                          Well as I myself said in the other thread in this section, I think Young should remain as the designated leader. However, I'll repeat myself by saying that the current setup where he is able to make unilateral decisions has to end immediately as it has almost gotten everyone killed a few times now. The straight forward military command will not suffice in this scenario and Young should forget about the military base leadership paradigm when it comes to Destiny. Certainly in emergency situations like alien attack, special concession should be made, but for the majority of the time, the crew is not under constant duress, so treating the crew as such is inappropriate.

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