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  1. #21
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    well before we blame it ALL on the writers, check the TV tropes site, the parts about "writer screwups" and "network screwups" and stuff related. it explains a lot. for example, it's not a big stretch of imagination that some network ******* thought the ship would be too old and turned it to hundreds of thousands of years

  2. #22
    Airman
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    Aside from arguing the Destiny moved at sublight speed, near c, are you also suggesting that the ship might have maintained her steampunky stargate, or something, so whatever method Rush would have used for datation would be trumped?
    Odd. Didn't he use the Destiny core computer?
    You'll excuse me my porous memories, I've only watched the episodes once thus far.
    I'm not totally sure I follow what you're asking but the computer core and its logs, the appearance of the ship, age of the stargate, etc.. would all be consistent with each other in terms of their age if time dilation is the actual reason for the discrepancy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    That would prove that when McKay "only" said 0.999c, he just didn't bother with the other decimals.
    It also means that the relative deceleration of 23 gees observed by McKay, from the Daedalus' point of view, points to very incredible amounts of power being used to slow down the Tria so fast. It's even higher than I thought (well above e19~20 W with sort of Newtonian thrusters).
    Yep, McKay definitely truncated the speed he gave, but the time to arrive in MW and the estimate of how long it would feel like to the people on board are plenty to get a more precise fix on their speed.

    As for the deceleration, it isn't quite as impressive as you might think. Well it is pretty impressive given the size of the ship but it is still 'only' 740 ft/sec^2 or put another way their velocity in feet per seconds is reduced by 740ft/sec every second. It would actually take them about 2 weeks to (relatively) come to a stop at those speeds, but iirc the 304s are capable of like 0.5c on their own so they would only need to reduce speed by half (so about a week to match speed). Luckily in the episode they just cut ahead to the ancients beaming down to Atlantis so they don't indicate that they came to a stop, how much they actually slowed down, or how long it took. So there were no inconsistencies there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    The Alterans/Lanteans left several millions of years ago ("Rising"), and there's little reason to believe the stargate network wasn't already in place, so her statement seems to be corroborated to a significant degree.
    Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think carter was wrong at all. I was just saying that of the two it seemed more likely that Carter was the one who was off to me, and mainly because I thought there would be a lot more uncertainty in dating the ice near the gate than the ship's logs. But if Quadhelix is right and Mallozzi has said Rush misspoke I'd like to see that.

  3. #23
    First Lieutenant Mike.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Hmm, this thread again...

    http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...njoy-if-i-did/
    Michael writes: “If Atlantis left for Pegasus “Several Million Years Ago” according to “Rising”, was Rush mistaken in his estimate that Destiny left Earth “Hundreds of Thousands” of years ago?”

    Answer: He misspoke or was speaking sort of off-hand, assuming he wasn’t going to be called on it by a knowledgeable fan.
    /end

  4. #24
    Airman
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Good enough for me.

  5. #25
    Second Lieutenant james123182's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    as other people have said, 900 billion years can still be described as hundreds of thousands, so you never know, it might be just a simple way of saying it

  6. #26
    Chief Master Sergeant AdmlDj's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    i have a theory about this, the earth gate is the first it is the prototype and the end result of the work to build a stargate but it requires naquadah to build it the ancients want to send out seeder ships but cant rely that they will always be able to find naquadah to use so they come up with a basic model gate one that can be built easily and would allow the ancients to get to whatever planet its on once there they could upgrade it or build whatever the latest model is just throwing that one out there

  7. #27
    Major Puddle-Jumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sqrl View Post
    Dr Rush speculates that the Destiny is "hundreds of thousands of years old" and contains a stargate that predates the MW gates.
    TPTB said on some blog or tweet somewhere that when Rush said this, he was just speaking off hand and he wasn't expected to be called on it by a knowledgable fan
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  8. #28
    Chief Master Sergeant ONeill4tW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    I'd like to know how Carter even got the 50 million year date for the Antarctic stargate. She couldn't have dated using Ice Cores because Antarctica wasn't even near the South Pole 50 million years ago. It did not reach its current position until 25 million years ago. So any ice that far deep won't date that far back. If she did use ice cores, then it is a writer's error.

    Did she date the Stargate itself?

    The material used to build it may say it is 50 million years old, but that does not mean that the stargate was built 50 million years ago. It's like randomly picking a stone out of a stone made house and dating it, finding that stone is 1 million years old and therefore the house must be 1 million years old, even though the house was only built 50 years ago.

    I would say that Carter and Rush are both wrong. The study of ancient civilizations and dating their history is more for archeologists (such as Daniel Jackson), paleontologists, anthropologists, and geologists than astrophysicists and whatever Rush is.

  9. #29
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    How much do the writers care about errors? You look at Sabotage, the drive bar at the back of the ship was fully lit at the end of the episode, despite the fact they just removed one of the drive modules in that very episode.

  10. #30
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ONeill4tW View Post
    I'd like to know how Carter even got the 50 million year date for the Antarctic stargate.
    An analysis of the DHD's power core.


    Quote Originally Posted by kwlafayette View Post
    How much do the writers care about errors? You look at Sabotage, the drive bar at the back of the ship was fully lit at the end of the episode, despite the fact they just removed one of the drive modules in that very episode.
    Which is not an error.

    They had removed one of the FTL nodes. However, the "drive bar," as you put it, is quite apparently some sort of STL thruster strip (for example, see here). The fact that it uses STL engines while in FTL does not make those thrusters FTL engines.
    "From East Middle School. Suzumiya Haruhi. I have no interest in ordinary humans. If there are any aliens, time travelers, sliders, or espers here, come join me."
    - The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya; Best Character Introduction Ever.

    "And can we lose the ten thousand year old dead plants?!"
    - Stargate: Atlantis (1x03) "Hide and Seek"

    "Hammerheads do not load/unload units immediately – they must descend to ground level first. Initial experiments involving jump-jetting infantry into the Hammerhead’s cargo compartment met with unfortunate results."
    - Command&Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath Hammerhead Unit Spotlight

  11. #31
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alx View Post
    my two cents on this topic:

    IF destiny was due to its FTL affected by time dialation how come the communication stones work?
    if the destiny while in FTL were subject to time dialation no contact with earth would be possible.

    i still believe that "hundreds of thousands" IS and ALLWAYS will be an epic writer screw up a true inconsistency, and that itself shows to prove that TPTB have no idea or intrest in the show they are making.
    I don't know if they wouldn't work, but for sure, people would always get back to Destiny and it would be "dude, you were only gone 12 seconds", and the other guy would reply "I went to Jamaica for a week, mon".

  12. #32

    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    guys any of u though that in ep Air rush meant that its been traveling for hundreds of millions of years and his actual words where an error of the actor, For those saying about the condition its in well it may have been in great condition till the blue aliens started following it the FTL drive is slower than the prometheus not fast but fast enough as its not hyperspeed.

    also its billions of LY away and where ppl getting the dates wrong, carter said the earth gate was 50 million yo about, well the ancients where in our galaxies well before that they may have flew to every planet in MW, then built the first stargates the destiny type as the years went on and they had sent destiny on its great journey then as they found out that they can be faults in the stargates they updated them swaped al lthe MW ones with the earth gate SGC uses and the one on earth was the first new one.

    it would explain why the destiny one looks weird compared to the MW gates also originaly the gates did not use ZPM's ? then all MW gates started useing ZPM's. also it does seam strange that for the length of time destiny has been in operation and its journey's end seams too far, if it was the only set of ships to gate seed why is it along a sort of path like its reaching some place, if humans was doing this we would follow the galaxies starting with the neariest then move out in a spearical pattern not in a dot to dot. ? unless the anceints wernt the first race of humans and there original race from the ORI galaxy came from some place evan farther out.

  13. #33
    Captain sgc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Hundreds of thousands of years was just Rush's preliminary estimate regarding the ship's age. JM established the age of Destiny to be 50+ million years old.

    Regarding the time dilation, Destiny does not suffer from time dilation because Destiny is traveling faster than the speed of light. Time dilation occurs when you are traveling very close to (but still under) the speed of light.

  14. #34
    Major General
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    True dat.....

    But still, iirc they said the antartic gate was what.. 50 mil years old itself.

  15. #35
    Captain sgc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    True dat.....

    But still, iirc they said the antartic gate was what.. 50 mil years old itself.
    Yes. They said it was 50 million years old.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    So if it is 50 mil years, and the destiny was launched 50 mil years, would they not be the same?

  17. #37
    Captain sgc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    So if it is 50 mil years, and the destiny was launched 50 mil years, would they not be the same?
    Just because Destiny was launched 50 million years ago does not mean that the gate aboard Destiny/the gate model is the same age as Destiny. Also, I think that these gates were specifically designed for Destiny's mission.

  18. #38
    Staff Sergeant
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    i'm surprised no one said this, maybe destiny is younger than you think and rush is correct about the age, what would that say about the stargate.

    well, since the seeder ships have to build stargates from stratch and the milky way gates is too complex to build on board a automated ship so they have to go to a older version which is easier to make and cheaper in resources to build.

    its like having a machine to build PS3 which takes 10x longer and more complex to build than the first generation PSone which is simple to make

  19. #39
    Captain sgc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Quote Originally Posted by danielhartley91 View Post
    i'm surprised no one said this, maybe destiny is younger than you think and rush is correct about the age, what would that say about the stargate.

    well, since the seeder ships have to build stargates from stratch and the milky way gates is too complex to build on board a automated ship so they have to go to a older version which is easier to make and cheaper in resources to build.

    its like having a machine to build PS3 which takes 10x longer and more complex to build than the first generation PSone which is simple to make
    The age of Destiny was confirmed by JM.

    I have no doubt that Destiny's gates are designed specifically for the mission. They are simpler to build, and they work in multiple galaxies due to the glyphs not being constellations.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Earth Gate and Destiny Gate: Could Carter and Dr Rush both be right?

    Maybe both gates were created at in the same time period. What if the Destiny style gates are just of a lower caliber than the milky-way gates. This makes sence as the destiny gates cannot take as much damage as Milky way gates. A simple energy weapon could destroy a destiny gate where as a milkyway gate can survive a meteor impact. I think the destiny gates are the susceptible to damage than the milkyway gates because they have to be easier to manufacture from materials gathered by the seed ships.

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