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    #16
    Originally posted by Oranos View Post
    Why does everyone think Renegade means bad or evil? It's neither. We Renegades are all about the ends justifying the means. We're going to get the job done at any cost.

    I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:

    Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.

    Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.
    I try to have an un-military view on things. I call the Evil character evil because he has a scar on his face, and he is bald! The normal evil sci-fi character!

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      #17
      Originally posted by Oranos View Post
      I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:

      Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.

      Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.
      I think that's a perfect example of the great moral conundrums that BioWare can write. If it were me (IRL), I don't think I could handle letting the innocents die. Balak is just one of many Batarian terrorists, he goes down and another will just take his place and innocent lives would have been lost for nothing.

      Just my take though. In-game, it's a lot of fun to just say "you're not leaving here alive"
      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
        I think that's a perfect example of the great moral conundrums that BioWare can write. If it were me (IRL), I don't think I could handle letting the innocents die. Balak is just one of many Batarian terrorists, he goes down and another will just take his place and innocent lives would have been lost for nothing.
        Yup.

        However, the Renegade way--though you wouldn't know this till after--allows you to capture and interrogate. You could ultimately end up saving even more lives with what Balak knows.

        Either way, not an easy decision. And you can justify it either way.

        But my Shepard is a Colonist (about an even mix of Renegade and Paragon). Which pretty much made my decision easy.

        Originally posted by DigiFluid
        Just my take though. In-game, it's a lot of fun to just say "you're not leaving here alive"
        Personally, my Shepard enjoyed putting a few rounds in the guy. And then leaving him for the Alliance.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Oranos View Post
          Why does everyone think Renegade means bad or evil? It's neither. We Renegades are all about the ends justifying the means. We're going to get the job done at any cost.

          I think Bring Down the Sky sums up the two philosophies perfectly. You have a Batarian terrorist. Do you:

          Let him go to save the hostages? You've now saved three people, but the terrorist is on the loose. He could try this again and probably will, but you'll also be ready to stop him another day. More lives (maybe a lot more) could be lost.

          Or kill him, but at the cost of the hostages? You've now lost the people, but the terrorist is out of the picture. You've ensured that no more lives will be lost.
          I'd agree renegade actions aren't bad, its more the way I see it paragon are "heroic selfless actions" while renegade are often more pragmatic "ends justify the means" actions. I think Mass Effect 2 got really good at this, for instance the mechanic working on the gunship in Omega is a perfect example, yes it's not very heroic to stab the guy in the back with an electro prod thingie, but in the end it's extremely helpful when you have a gunship bearing down on your position that it hasn't been repaired fully.

          There are some great moral conundrums in the Mass Effect games and normally my Shepard racks up plenty of both paragon and renegade. Though occasionally I think it falls down, like the choice with whether to brainwash the heretic geth on Legions mission. You get renegade points for blowing them up rather than essentially brainwashing them, but I thought it was more moral to do that rather than erode their free will and sentience.
          Last edited by The Mighty 6 platoon; 20 February 2010, 04:18 AM.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View Post
            I'd agree renegade actions aren't bad, its more the way I see it paragon are "heroic selfless actions" while renegade are often more pragmatic "ends justify the means" actions. I think Mass Effect 2 got really good at this, for instance the mechanic working on the gunship in Omega is a perfect example, yes it's not very heroic to stab the guy in the back with an electro prod thingie, but in the end it's extremely helpful when you have a gunship bearing down on your position that it hasn't been repaired fully.
            That gunship can be an absolute beast on insanity if you leave the merc be (from what I hear). No, I decided to make life easy on Mordin, Miranda, Archangel, and myself in that situation. I usually do with most of those type of Renegade choices.

            Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon
            There are some great moral conundrums in the Mass Effect games and normally my Shepard racks up plenty of both paragon and renegade.
            There are. I think the one that stands out--in the sense that the Renegade should have been approached differently--is the Rachni Queen.

            My "main" Shepard approached it from the standpoint that the queen couldn't be trusted. Given all the facts and historical data, the species is a major threat. Their population could and would explode in a very short time (maybe months or just a couple of years). He just couldn't risk releasing the queen and having to fight a war on two fronts.

            I would have liked a more remorseful way to off the queen, however. The "I'm sorry, I just can't risk letting you go free," option would have been nice to see. Even if it was a neutral option instead.

            Originally posted by The Might 6 platoon
            Though occasionally I think it falls down, like the choice with whether to brainwash the heretic geth on Legions mission. You get renegade points for blowing them up rather than essentially brainwashing them, but I thought it was more moral to do that rather than erode their free will and sentience.
            Then sometimes we get situations like these. Where they both seem like Renegade choices.

            But on that note, the Paragons seem to have gone a little darker in this game. So maybe a more "Renegade" choice is apt.

            Comment


              #21
              I think the morality system is a standout point of the Mass Effect games, not only as a videogame device but also just as good sci-fi. Good science fiction stories should make us ask questions, is it better to spare our enemies by brainwashing them or do we give them the dignity of dying with their free will intact. That is what I feel makes the Mass Effect games not just excellent games bu7t also great sci-fi stories.

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                #22
                I beat Mass Effect 2 with one of my Paragon characters and playing through on Renegade currently. Also by a strange coincidence my Renegade Shepard looks like Wesker from Resident Evil (I played through Mass Effect 1 before playing any Resident Evil games), and now looks like him even more with the glowing red eyes. I usually prefer to play as Paragon, but love some of the Renegade dialog:


                I do like how in this game, how it's not like the first where everything was organic vs. synthetic with all A.I.'s and machines being evil. Mass Effect 2 has two ally machine characters, EDI and Legion, not only that, Shepard is now a Cyborg. The Illusive Man is an awesome character, some of the best voice acting ever in a video game.

                So what is everyone opinion on some of the choices:

                Spoiler:

                For the Geth I rewrote them, I'm thinking they will help in the third game.

                In the end, do you destroy the base, or keep it. I chose to destroy it because it's Reaper technology, it probably causes indoctrination or the Reapers could still use it somehow to their advantage.


                Originally posted by Replicator Todd View Post
                There is a comic series?! *goes to Amazon*
                There's probably going to be hardcover volume with all four comics released later on, like they did with the Halo and Gears of War comics. I'm going to wait for that before getting it. I downloaded the first one the day it was free but can't use it because I don't have an Ipod touch.

                Originally posted by Oranos View Post
                My "main" Shepard approached it from the standpoint that the queen couldn't be trusted. Given all the facts and historical data, the species is a major threat. Their population could and would explode in a very short time (maybe months or just a couple of years). He just couldn't risk releasing the queen and having to fight a war on two fronts.
                Spoilers for Mass Effect 2:
                Spoiler:

                If you let the queen live, you get a message from her on the asari planet. The conversation strongly implies the Rachi were indoctrinated by the Reapers, and the Reapers were behind the whole war.


                Oh, here is another great Mass Effect 2 video:
                Last edited by Daedalus-304; 20 February 2010, 11:31 PM.
                sigpic

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                  #23
                  You know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it

                  Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining
                  Last edited by The Mighty 6 platoon; 21 February 2010, 03:35 AM.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View Post
                    So what is everyone opinion on some of the choices:

                    Spoiler:

                    For the Geth I rewrote them, I'm thinking they will help in the third game.

                    In the end, do you destroy the base, or keep it. I chose to destroy it because it's Reaper technology, it probably causes indoctrination or the Reapers could still use it somehow to their advantage.


                    Ditto on the Geth. Same on the base. But I really think the latter decision is going to come back to bite me in the @$$. I don't know why, just a hunch.

                    Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View Post
                    Spoilers for Mass Effect 2:
                    Spoiler:

                    If you let the queen live, you get a message from her on the asari planet. The conversation strongly implies the Rachi were indoctrinated by the Reapers, and the Reapers were behind the whole war.
                    Completely irrelevant. That is so-called proof that you do not have when you first encounter the Rachni Queen on Noveria. Given all the evidence and facts up to that first meeting, it's pretty much insane to keep her alive. This is an extremely dangerous race that almost defeated the Council. Only the Krogan stopped them--and that's a race that can no longer outbreed them. Could you imagine just having to fight the Rachni and the Reapers? That'd be an absolute nightmare of epic proportions.

                    There are some hints in the first conversation with her. But again, it comes down to trust. And whether you can risk it. The way I play my Shepard, he can't.

                    Besides, it's worth killing the queen for this conversation alone:

                    Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
                    Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.
                    Turian Councilor: Commander! You are addressing a member of the Council. You will show the proper respect!

                    Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View Post
                    Oh, here is another great Mass Effect 2 video:
                    Yes, I quite like that video (and have had it as part of my favorites for a while now).

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View Post
                      You know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it

                      Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining
                      Indeed, Claudia has exploded into video games, she did an excellent job on Uncharted 2 from what I heard.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View Post
                        You know actually playing some of the paragon stuff is more satisfying in the long run. Yes convincing a store owner to give you a discount by giving an endorsement doesn't sound fun, but it's hilarious when you do it to very single store on the citadel and as you run past just hear "I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favourite store on the Citadel," from every store. And no one calls you out over it
                        I prefer playing on Paragon, it's much better helping people out rather than being a jerk, I only played Renegade in the first one to get an achievement. I'm also surprised no one called you out over that too, I was expected him to say slightly different things in each store, rather than the same line over and over again. Speaking of Citadel stores, anyone find the game salesman hilarious?

                        Also on another note, anyone else notice how Claudia Black is getting in all the Bioware games. She's really gone big in voice acting since the end of Stargate SG1 and she's done plenty of voice work in some big games. Bioware seem to like using her, she voices Morrigan in Dragon Age and Admiral Xen in Mass Effect 2 as well as some minor characters. And both games seemed to be setting up that those characters might be important in the sequel so I reckon we'll be hearing a lot more of her in future Bioware games. Not that I'm complaining
                        I actually didn't even recognize it was her until I saw her name in the credits, I didn't even hear she was going to be in the game before.

                        Originally posted by Oranos View Post
                        Besides, it's worth killing the queen for this conversation alone:

                        Turian Councilor: Do you take pleasure from committing genocide, Shepard?
                        Shepard: Depends on the species, Turian.
                        Turian Councilor: Commander! You are addressing a member of the Council. You will show the proper respect!
                        Yes, that is a great line.

                        For the Rachni, I can see wiping them out, I just couldn't do it. It would be interesting if in the third game they turned out to be hostile, showing a negative outcome of a "Paragon" action of letting them live.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View Post
                          I actually didn't even recognize it was her until I saw her name in the credits, I didn't even hear she was going to be in the game before.
                          I was amused that both Morrigan and Loghain had infiltrated the Quarian fleet.

                          Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View Post
                          Yes, that is a great line.
                          I love all the Renegade conversations with that Turian (and that was one of the reasons I spared the Council). Another good one, if I remember correctly:

                          Turian Councilor: I believe you humans have a saying. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
                          Shepard: We humans have another saying. Go to hell.

                          And telling the Council, in the second game, to 'screw themselves' when they offer you your Spectre status back is so worth it.

                          Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View Post
                          For the Rachni, I can see wiping them out, I just couldn't do it. It would be interesting if in the third game they turned out to be hostile, showing a negative outcome of a "Paragon" action of letting them live.
                          I'll laugh when they get indoctrinated again and turn on you.

                          To be fair, you Paragons have already had some negative outcomes. You let bad guys go free. Elnora, for example.

                          Found these. They're pretty funny. Check them out:

                          http://bleedingcrow.deviantart.com/a...eved-154121898

                          http://bleedingcrow.deviantart.com/a...nute-154834447

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Replicator Todd View Post
                            Indeed, Claudia has exploded into video games, she did an excellent job on Uncharted 2 from what I heard.
                            She really is in a lot of a list titles recnetly, form Crysis, to Uncharted 2, to the Bioware games. I hope maybe she convinces some more Stargate talent to do voices for the games, I mean Mass Effect 2 had scifi talent by the truckload doing the voicies and it would be cool if they added some more stargate Alumini to Mass Effect 3.
                            Originally posted by Daedalus-304 View Post
                            I prefer playing on Paragon, it's much better helping people out rather than being a jerk, I only played Renegade in the first one to get an achievement. I'm also surprised no one called you out over that too, I was expected him to say slightly different things in each store, rather than the same line over and over again. Speaking of Citadel stores, anyone find the game salesman hilarious?
                            I like helping people in my games, but at the same time I enjoy gunning down all the bad guys and screw any of that forgiveness crap So that means in both Mass Effect games my Shepard usually ends up with a full paragon bar with plenty of renegade on the side. I like to think of it as playing it Bauer style.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by The Mighty 6 platoon View Post
                              She really is in a lot of a list titles recnetly, form Crysis, to Uncharted 2, to the Bioware games. I hope maybe she convinces some more Stargate talent to do voices for the games, I mean Mass Effect 2 had scifi talent by the truckload doing the voicies and it would be cool if they added some more stargate Alumini to Mass Effect 3.
                              Ya. More CB would be nice.
                              Aside from her, only Adam Baldwin has been on SG, right (for ME2, that is)? Also, other than Admiral Xen, who else did she voice (I think it's already certain that she did the voice for the Rachni-Asari, but what about the Asari bartender?)?

                              edit:
                              on a more 'technical' note: re: ME1: did anyone experience a 'slowdown'/more 'sluggish' game after installing the 'Bring Down the Sky' DLC? I seem to recall it running smoother prior to the DLC's installation...
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by gotthammer View Post
                                on a more 'technical' note: re: ME1: did anyone experience a 'slowdown'/more 'sluggish' game after installing the 'Bring Down the Sky' DLC? I seem to recall it running smoother prior to the DLC's installation...
                                The only problem I remembered having was that the landscape on Therum turned completely black. But that was an easy fix. Other than that, no, no problems.

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