Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

[mirdin1992]

*snip*

*snip*

Thats a very well thought argument.

Also on the ZPM being able to power a gate to the Destiny. I want to make a reference on some calculations on ZPM energy on another forum, a thread which you made.

From it the ZPM has enough energy from solar system/planet busting to holding the pressure of ocean floor for 3.333 years to not being able to lift a 4km diameter city from the planet.

From this I presume that the ZPM will not be a consequence in SGU. If they ever find one by rule of plot will be severely depleted, loose it, need it for something else(its wasteful to save less than a hundred people), or the ZPM maximum energy will hit a new low in the show.

[thekillman]

actually if a high energy event created a naquahdriah asteroid (probably by exotic radiation), and that asteroid crashed on Icarus, then transmuted the naquahdah into naquahdriah, it's possible.


anyway, we know naquahdriah decays back into naquahdah over the course of a few thousands years. so if the asteroid hit a few millenia ago, it's plausible.

also, the rarity is BECAUSE of naquahdriah

[tinerin]

What's the source of that info?

Without evidence I can't really accept it.
It would be much better if you could tell where the info comes from.

wow, I narrowed it down to one of either two episodes and/or a webisobe...how about you watch the show before claiming that something wasn't mentioned in the show...

from Air, Part 1:
JACKSON: ... Icarus Base was established on a planet discovered two years ago to have a uniquely powerful core. The entire purpose of the project is to hopefully one day dial the nine chevron address found in the Ancient database.
Also, naquadriah is specifically mentioned in the full webisode video...

There's clearly something that's been going that I've missed. Is there any canon information that suggests that tapping power for too long to dial that far is what caused the system to overload and begin an unstable chain reaction?

It was stated in Air that all the explosions and what not going on outside the base it was triggered the chain reaction...Rush just took advantage of the situation to dial Destiny because he knew he would never get another chance (at least not from that planet)...

from Air, Part 1:
RILEY: Doctor Rush? I'm reading a dangerous energy spike in the core.
.....
RUSH: If this bombardment continues, the radioactive core's gonna go critical.
and this was before they even started dialing the gate...

The piddly explosion akin to a couple megajoules?

It was a simple TEST; nowhere near the full amount of power to dial the address...if such a small amount of power running through the conduits would cause an explosion, what do you think the power to dial the 9-chevron address would do to the conduits?

A few lightning bolts could power a stargate to a trip over several light years, for a short period. Destiny is capable of handling at the very least terawatts of power, evidence by those sun divings.
I guess the power conduits are really screwed up somewhere then. The weapons themselves may have been operating at a level below what they could normally reach.

Remember that the lightning bolts powered the stargate to dial a wormhole to one of the closest planets in the galaxy to Earth and only maintained the wormhole for a few minutes...for all we know,the Destiny's range is even farther than that and supposedly can maintain the wormhole for the full duration...
My theory is that the limited range on the Destiny's stargate is a safety feature to ensure that anyone who dials out can dial back using the kino remote...we've yet to obtain the Destiny's master code so we just might not have the ability to shut that feature off, not like we would want to since the Destiny crew has no portable power sources...

I have hard times believing it's naqahdria. This material is rather short lived, and it would have returned to naqahdah before the era of the homo erectus on Earth.
Naqahdah would make much more sense in all possible ways.

Naquadriah is specifically mentioned by Daniel Jackson in his video on the stargate...also, I think Rush mentions naquadriah in Life when he's lying about finding another Icarus planet...

Not necessarily. You just need certain concentrations of isotope and an assured purity to obtain enough critical mass for certain types of reactions to sustain themselves.
The increase of temperature and pressure helps getting closer to other favourable parameters which themselves also allow chain reactions.

I agree with this in that the planet blew up but the naquadriah didn't necessarily obtain critical mass...It is mentioned in the extended pilot, that one of the most costly aspects of Icarus Base is cooling the facility because the naquadriah in the core exerts so much pressure on the planet's crust...all the weapon blasts hitting the surface could have put enough strain on the surface that it couldn't contain the pressure from the naquadriah so eventually the naquadriah broke the entire planet's crust and no more Icarus planet....

actually if a high energy event created a naquahdriah asteroid (probably by exotic radiation), and that asteroid crashed on Icarus, then transmuted the naquahdah into naquahdriah, it's possible.

Wow, you just like to use the term "exotic radiation" to show how clueless you are in physics don't you? anyways one possible process that could convert naquadah into naquadriah is discussed in an SG-1 episode in a conversation between Carter, Jonas and the Goauld spy...i'm too lazy to look it up but i believe it had something to do with heavier subatomic particles...

anyway, we know naquahdriah decays back into naquahdah over the course of a few thousands years. so if the asteroid hit a few millenia ago, it's plausible.

Well we know that there is a process that converts naquadah into naquadriah...as long as the process was still active, it's possible that the naquadriah that decayed into naquadah could have been reconverted back into naquadriah...this could potentially be maintained until the conversion process stops...

also, the rarity is BECAUSE of naquahdriah

this is true...

[thekillman]

or maybe it's a power issue, or the gates are thin seeded, or the correlative update system isn't included

[Astrum porta]

Well think about it, the ancients must have had some convienent way of dialing the 9th chevron and their best source of power was their zpms'. One naquedah reactor = within one galaxy, one zpm = within two galaxies, x = more than 9 galaxies away i think rush said? So 9 zpms!

[thekillman]

WE DO NOT KNOW THE EXACT DISTANCE.


also, if the ancients had actually dialled it, it would've been billions of lightyears closer!

say it's a billion lightyears away. thats 1000 million LY's. approx. 10 million years ago, the ancients left, so that's approx. 100 lightyears per year. which isn't a lot. if we go by the lower figure, 5 million lightyears, Destiny still travels only 200 lightyears per year. more logical, is 10 or 100 billion lightyears, giving it a speed of 1000 resp. 10 000 LY per year *we can cross that distance in hours to a day*

[K^2]

The universe itself is less than 100 billion light years across, so we are definitely no talking anything close to 100 billion. I suppose, it could be over 10 billions, but I think Rush would have said something to this effect, so we are looking for something in 5-10 billion light years range.

This is still at least 3 orders of magnitude on top of trip to Pegasus DIG, so there is no reason to suspect that any sane number of ZPMs could handle it.

[deltaCain054]

Please don't complain if any of this has been said before, I don't feel like reading through a few pages to pointless techno babel to read something that should be simple.
No 1 ZPM could not power a wormhole to Destiny, but it might be feasible to dial it with 5 or more ZPMs, at least for a few micro-seconds.
Icarus base was destroyed because weapons fire caused the naquahdriah to destabilize, causing extreme energy outputs, causing the entire core to destabilize and explode. It had nothing to do with dialing Destiny (it is possible that dialing Destiny drained a lot of power from the core, delaying the explosion, though this is completely theoretical). As for why flying through the sun and dialing the gate on Destiny didn't work, Dr. Rush may have also sabotaged the attempt (it was sort of hinted).

[mirdin1992]

*snip*

This is my opinion so I must be right.


People stop with all the guessing. You guys don't know how much power it takes to dial the Destiny anymore than I do.

The only thing I'm certain it will have the energy the plot requires, if it appears.

[Mike.]

This is my opinion so I must be right.


People stop with all the guessing. You guys don't know how much power it takes to dial the Destiny anymore than I do.

The only thing I'm certain it will have the energy the plot requires, if it appears.

Hmm, ok I accept the challenge . Let me break down deltaCain's post to the individual ideas so that I can prove that he's right.

No 1 ZPM could not power a wormhole to Destiny,

Correct. In Daniel's training video it is stated that the the "purpose of the project [Icarus] was to one day dial the nine chevron address found in the Ancient database". This proves that the single or multiple ZPMs Atlantis obtained over the years was not sufficient or they would have used them.

but it might be feasible to dial it with 5 or more ZPMs, at least for a few micro-seconds.

Correct. Each ZPM has an enormous amount of power and thanks to simple logic we can conclude that if one is not enough more can be used to double/triple/quadruple/.../... the available power until it becomes sufficient. The real figure might prove to be impractical, but as an exercise in thought it is sound. The micro-second notion is from SGA - what Mckay did to send some messages through the Stargate from Atlantis, powered just by NQ reactors.

Icarus base was destroyed because weapons fire caused the naquahdriah to destabilize, causing extreme energy outputs, causing the entire core to destabilize and explode. It had nothing to do with dialing Destiny (it is possible that dialing Destiny drained a lot of power from the core, delaying the explosion, though this is completely theoretical).

Correct again. Here's the relevant transcript from Air part one as proof:

FLASHBACK. ICARUS BASE. The Lucian troop transport and its glider escort fly down towards the base. The troops on the platforms begin to fire at them as they come into range. The gliders return fire. Inside the base, people look up in concern at the nearby impacts. At a computer in the Gateroom, Sergeant Riley calls out.

RILEY: Doctor Rush? I'm reading a dangerous energy spike in the core.

RUSH: Eli, Eli. I need your help.

WALLACE: With what?

RUSH: The ninth chevron.

WALLACE: What?! We need to get the hell out of here!

RUSH: Look, it took us two years to find this site. The properties are unique. This may be our last chance.

(The base vibrates under a nearby explosion.)

RUSH: If this bombardment continues, the radioactive core's gonna go critical.

WALLACE: Y-you mean the planet –- it's gonna explode?

RUSH: Yes.

Next:

As for why flying through the sun and dialing the gate on Destiny didn't work, Dr. Rush may have also sabotaged the attempt (it was sort of hinted).

Again, correct. The episode made the point of casting doubt on Rush, in several scenes - when Rush stated that he rigged the alarms:

Earth transcript:

WRAY: You staged the whole thing

JOHANSEN: So all of this was just to get rid of Telford?

RUSH: Had to be done.

GREER: So you're sayin' that the ship is not gonna explode?

RUSH: Oh no, we would most definitely all be dead had I not put certain limits in place. I also arranged for the alarms and warnings to go off regardless - a bit of theatre. Always nice.

And then again at the end when Young asked Eli to verify Rush's data:

YOUNG: I need you to do something for me.

WALLACE (swinging around on his chair to face him): Sure thing.

YOUNG: Go over the data collected as they tried to dial the Gate.

WALLACE: I have already. There's a lot I don't understand.

YOUNG: Well, then, you need to learn - as fast as you can, and you talk to whoever you have to.

WALLACE: D'you think Rush is hiding something?

YOUNG: That's what I want you to tell me.

(Perhaps a little unwillingly, Eli nods. Young turns and leaves the room and Eli swings back around to the console and continues the playback of the earlier recording.)

Whether Rush actually did it will be revealed in a later episode, but it certainly was "hinted".

Challenge met!

[mirdin1992]

*snip*

1. The naquadriah detonation was in the range of 2.9 x 10^32 J. This was the explosion of all the naquadriah in the core. The gate was not that great a power drain to come close to deplete the planets energy supply.

2. a) ZPM(type I) Can destroy the planet in the same manner as the naquadriah core detonation. While on the surface of the planet => ZPM>2.9 x 10^32 J. Supported by SGA Arturus episode and the ZPM powered Daedalus taking exaton directed coronal mass ejection from the star.

2. b) ZPM(type II) Can bust solar system at 50% charge so fully charged ZPM~2.4×10^44 J. This could dial the Destiny millions of times even if the gate would need planet busting power every time.

3. ZPM will have enough power as the plot demands or is conveniently unavailable.

Also for those who think the ZPM can't supply the power at the needed rate. McKay&Mr.Miller has drained the ZPM at 2% per second. This was not hinted to be a maximum.

Take them apples.

[Mike.]

References for the numbers please. I provided a source for everything I said. Otherwise it would be meaningless.

You didn't prove that any of my points were inaccurate:

[...]
Correct. In Daniel's training video it is stated that the the "purpose of the project [Icarus] was to one day dial the nine chevron address found in the Ancient database". This proves that the single or multiple ZPMs Atlantis obtained over the years was not sufficient or they would have used them.
[...]

Furthermore it was stated *on the show* that they might not get another chance, implying that the other chance would be an identical planet.

RUSH: Eli, Eli. I need your help.

WALLACE: With what?

RUSH: The ninth chevron.

WALLACE: What?! We need to get the hell out of here!

RUSH: Look, it took us two years to find this site. The properties are unique. This may be our last chance.

You argument is invalid. The writers of the show say it is.
___________________

Say we carry on...

The planet explosion was not the whole story. The blast should be MUCH larger if all the naquadria is used:

In Fail Safe a 137 kilometers asteroid with just a naquadah core can create a nova size explosion:

Sam Carter: The asteroid has an irregular shape, but we've calculated its length from end to end to be approximately 137 kilometers.
Jack O'Neill: I've seen this movie. It hits Paris.
__________
Sam Carter: Sir, the asteroid's core is composed almost entirely of naquadah.
Jack O'Neill: Of course it is.
Sam Carter: It makes up about 45 percent of the total mass.
Dr. Daniel Jackson: Of course it does.
__________
Sam Carter: [explaining the contents of the asteroid and how the bomb will affect it] The explosion will be enhanced by the naquadah, probably to the force of a small nova. This close to Earth, it would be enough to set the atmosphere on fire and boil the oceans.
Jack O'Neill: Okay, this was not in the movie.

Source for the quotes

The Icarus planet has a pure naquadriah core - 1) the material type should output a LOT more energy, 2) a planet core is much larger. Say 2880 to 6370 km, assuming the Icarus planet was the size of Earth - no difference in gravity was stated. The real explosion would be a lot larger than just the destruction of the planet, even more than a complete solar system destruction.

Icarus type planet > ZPM.

You're absolutely right on the point of how fast a ZPM can be depleted. The issue is that it wouldn't keep the wormhole open for a practical amount of time to get anyone through.

/Actually yeah, a ZPM could dial the Destiny, but only that. "Chevron Nine is locked. [the lights go out] The ZPM has been depleted"

[kymeric]

The core was overloading and wouldn't shut down when they dialed destiny. And they had the address for years just didn't have the power to dial it, remembering there's been a ZPM on earth since season 3 of Atlantis, some 3-4 years ago. It was worth a billion dollar base to dial destiny but not to risk an irreplacable ZPM. So I assume it either wasnt enough, or wasnt worth the risk.

[mirdin1992]

The core was overloading and wouldn't shut down when they dialed destiny. And they had the address for years just didn't have the power to dial it, remembering there's been a ZPM on earth since season 3 of Atlantis, some 3-4 years ago. It was worth a billion dollar base to dial destiny but not to risk an irreplacable ZPM. So I assume it either wasnt enough, or wasnt worth the risk.

Or maybe the crappy knockoffs that the Asurans make and call ZPMs and we are stealing from are like a alkaline battery to a antimatter one only a million times worse.

[deltaCain054]

No, the ZPMs stolen from the Asurans were just like the ones designed by the Ancients, and would be just as powerful.