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  1. #101
    Chief Master Sergeant deltaCain054's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    I think it still on Earth, but it does raise the question of why it has never been used, especially in Stargate Continuum.
    Why are there six pedals and only four directions?
    -Michael J. Caboose

    Sergeant, make it spin.
    Walter - Spin? Si-sir, it doesn't spin.
    What? It has to spin, it's round! Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning. I-I'm the general, I want it to spin. Now!

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    It always bugged me, that there was never any hint of where the Ancients made ZPMs, how they made them, nothing. They continue to be simply a magical device that magically appears whenever they have a need for vast amounts of near limitless power. One of the weakest plt devices ever, like they weren't even trying.

    PS. You would think at the very least, the Atlantis would have been able to make those. ZPMs being so critical for its existence and all.

  3. #103
    Chief Master Sergeant deltaCain054's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Yeah, they should find a facility that creates them, or used to. Any such facility would have probable been destroyed by the Wraith, but there should be at least some reference to it.
    Why are there six pedals and only four directions?
    -Michael J. Caboose

    Sergeant, make it spin.
    Walter - Spin? Si-sir, it doesn't spin.
    What? It has to spin, it's round! Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning. I-I'm the general, I want it to spin. Now!

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Well, the Asurans seemed to have all the brand new ZPMs that they wanted. That was another thing, where the heck did they get them all from? They had a fully powered city, plus all they wanted for war ships.

  5. #105
    Chief Master Sergeant deltaCain054's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    They were replicators, They made them themselves.
    Why are there six pedals and only four directions?
    -Michael J. Caboose

    Sergeant, make it spin.
    Walter - Spin? Si-sir, it doesn't spin.
    What? It has to spin, it's round! Spinning is so much cooler than not spinning. I-I'm the general, I want it to spin. Now!

  6. #106
    Defender Alterus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofseas View Post
    No.

    A lot. A whole lot of ZPMs in synchrony. It took an entire planet filled with the most unstable element/isotope going critical and practically unleashing all the power it had available.
    Just to point out a single ZPM at 50% has enough energy to take out an entire solar system, a ZPM is more than capable of dialing

  7. #107
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alterus View Post
    Just to point out a single ZPM at 50% has enough energy to take out an entire solar system, a ZPM is more than capable of dialing
    Here we go again

  8. #108
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Here we go again
    It's likely that a ZPM would be able to power the connection. I just don't see why the SGC would be willing to use up one of the most important strategic assets they have just for a science project with no obvious gains, or to rescue a few dozen people.

  9. #109
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    It's likely that a ZPM would be able to power the connection. I just don't see why the SGC would be willing to use up one of the most important strategic assets they have just for a science project with no obvious gains, or to rescue a few dozen people.
    The whole premise of the show is that *we don't leave our people behind* so yes if they could I say they would.

    Likely to power the connection, yes I agree. But for how long?

    Lots of Gateworlders argued that ZPM > Naquadriah. That much is true, a ZPM is more powerful imo, although I cannot believe that the total quantity of Naquadriah contained in a whole planet would produce less energy than a half-full ZPM.

    Also I hardly doubt the writers would go with that ZPM dialing solution... let's see...

    New script for SGU:
    Season 1

    Col. Young: SGC this is Young, we are stuck on a derelict ship in the middle of nowhere millions of light years away.
    SGC: No worries, we got a ZPM we'll establish a connection and get you out of there.
    Col. Young: Thanks bro


    Walter: Chevron 9 locked.

    *SGU ends*

  10. #110
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    The whole premise of the show is that *we don't leave our people behind* so yes if they could I say they would.
    That would be thoroughly retarded. Earth's main defense relies on ZPM's. It would be incredibly incredibly stupid to expose 6+ billion humans to unimaginable threats just because they wanted to dial a spaceship far away. In fact, i'd argue that the whole point of Icarus planets was so they wouldn't have to rely on ZPM's in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Also I hardly doubt the writers would go with that ZPM dialing solution... let's see...
    Considering that Earth was nearly doomed because they didn't have enough ZPM's and got bailed out by Todd, i'd argue that the writers couldn't possibly get away with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Lots of Gateworlders argued that ZPM > Naquadriah. That much is true, a ZPM is more powerful imo, although I cannot believe that the total quantity of Naquadriah contained in a whole planet would produce less energy than a half-full ZPM.
    Sure, a ZPM holds more power than an equal mass or volume of Naquahdriah. But even small amounts of naquahdriah allow for gigaton-level explosions, scale that up to the core of a planet and we get ZPM-matching levels of energy. The fact that the planet got blown apart entirely, shows it's power matches lowball ZPM estimations.

  11. #111
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    That would be thoroughly retarded. Earth's main defense relies on ZPM's.
    With Atlantis back on Earth, jumpers, Asgard tech, new ships, etc. Earth no longer rely solely on the artic defense station and can easily fend off attacks from the Lucian Alliance. Why not equip jumpers with more drones instead? It's not like we would lose our *ammos*. I never understood the big deal with the Chair Weapon, sure enough it can shoot a bunch of drones but so can jumpers.

    ZPM is a non-renewable (as far as we know) energy source. From a military and strategic point of view, relying on that would be, to use your own words, thoroughly retarded.

    It would be incredibly incredibly stupid to expose 6+ billion humans to unimaginable threats just because they wanted to dial a spaceship far away.
    Sounds like rogue NID rhetoric. It's not about simply dialing a spaceship far way, it's about saving lives, lives of the Destiny crew.

    How many times did SG-1 and the SGC put Earth's butt on the line in order to save lives? From Hammond breaking protocol leaving the gate open while SG1 is under heavy fire to refusing to help the pseudo-Nazis from The Other Side (402), the show has proven time and time again that we will not sacrifice our humanity for our fear of the enemy.

    Also I would point out that bringing back the bright minds of SGU such as Eli and Rush and putting them to work in the SGC or Area 51 could possibly unlock new technology and advancements through research.

    Sure, a ZPM holds more power than an equal mass or volume of Naquahdriah. But even small amounts of naquahdriah allow for gigaton-level explosions, scale that up to the core of a planet and we get ZPM-matching levels of energy. The fact that the planet got blown apart entirely, shows it's power matches lowball ZPM estimations.
    Pure speculation, which is why I previously commented *here we go again*. Nobody can tell what is and what's not until TPTB clearly mentions it.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    The whole premise of the show is that *we don't leave our people behind* so yes if they could I say they would.
    That's not so much the premise as the argument that a few main characters make to their higher ups. They usually either end up having to circumvent the chain of command to pursue that philosophy or they're given a certain degree of leeway while constantly being told that if they don't show results soon they'll have to shut down the search because it's using up too many resources. So unless someone cares about those guys enough to steal a ZPM, I don't see such a thing happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0
    I never understood the big deal with the Chair Weapon, sure enough it can shoot a bunch of drones but so can jumpers.

    ZPM is a non-renewable (as far as we know) energy source. From a military and strategic point of view, relying on that would be, to use your own words, thoroughly retarded.
    The problem with jumpers is that they can only hold a small number of drones and they're an easy target to shoot down. Unless you get lucky by hitting an area that causes a significant enough secondary explosion it can take quite a few drones to take down a capital ship, never mind a fleet. And each ship has to be controlled by a different individual, so if you send a bunch of them off to fight off an invasion most are going to be operated by people with a weak ATA gene.

    The Control Chair provides a central location for a single skilled individual to potentially wield thousands of drones and, when the chair was miles under the Antarctica, it was a difficult target to bomb.

    It might be possible to set up a bunch of jumpers in a circle down in the outpost and then have them all fire their drones from that protective location while people are running around reloading. You still, however, have the issue of most of them being controlled by people who can't control drones as well as Shepard or O'neill can. Also, I'm not entirely sure that drones fired from a jumper have the same range as those fired from a control chair. Sure, the drones themselves are the same and sure, worst case scenario you could always set them on autopilot, but jumpers may have a watered down computing system that makes controlling them at the same range as a control chair impossible.

    I would also add that firing up a control chair doesn't necessarily use that much energy in the grand scheme of things. Certainly not enough to weaken Earth's defense by any level, no matter how small. It uses about the same as dialing the Pegasus galaxy; Earth drained their already nearly depleted ZPM sending the expedition through and the alternate Earth from "The Road Not Taken" used up the same amount of energy by powering up the control chair one more time to fend off an Ori attack. Considering they regularly used ZPM power on Atlantis to dial Earth for progress reports and to send people back rather than having them wait on the Daedalus, I think they can spare the energy for the control chair

    Don't get me wrong, dialing between galaxies isn't nothing. After all, they devoted a bunch of resources to create a gate bridge as an alternative (although, that was primarily about being able to dial from Earth), but realistically how often would they need to use ZPM power for the control chair? They mostly get by on the threat of the weapons platform, so it's not something they frequently use and by using it enough they'll for sure run out of drones long before they drain one of their ZPMs.
    Last edited by Xaeden; May 26th, 2018 at 08:42 PM.

  13. #113
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    ZPM is a non-renewable (as far as we know) energy source. From a military and strategic point of view, relying on that would be, to use your own words, thoroughly retarded.
    They're still our greatest military assets, and stuff like Atlantis depends on it. Especially since Atlantis has been known to burn through ZPM's like AA batteries. Sacrificing them for a questionable rescue mission makes no sense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Sounds like rogue NID rhetoric. It's not about simply dialing a spaceship far way, it's about saving lives, lives of the Destiny crew.
    ZPM's save more lives by defending earth, by about a factor of 10 million.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Pure speculation, which is why I previously commented *here we go again*. Nobody can tell what is and what's not until TPTB clearly mentions it.
    The planet was clearly shown blowing up. Given that ZPM's have the capacity to blow up a planet at least, that puts them in the same lowball power regime. Sure higher ZPM estimates exist, but then we didn't get to see the exact extent of the explosion either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    That's not so much the premise as the argument that a few main characters make to their higher ups. They usually either end up having to circumvent the chain of command to pursue that philosophy or they're given a certain degree of leeway while constantly being told that if they don't show results soon they'll have to shut down the search because it's using up too many resources. So unless someone cares about those guys enough to steal a ZPM, I don't see such a thing happening.
    Exactly.

  14. #114
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    ZPM's save more lives by defending earth, by about a factor of 10 million.
    A good defensive measure / deterrent true. But saving lives how? Are we under the threat of a new enemy other than the LA?

    The planet was clearly shown blowing up. Given that ZPM's have the capacity to blow up a planet at least, that puts them in the same lowball power regime. Sure higher ZPM estimates exist, but then we didn't get to see the exact extent of the explosion either.
    The only reason the Icarus planet blew up is due to the instability of Naquadriah. They mentioned many times that this element is quite dangerous and prone to uncontrollable chain reactions. It tells us nothing in regards to power or energy potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    And each ship has to be controlled by a different individual, so if you send a bunch of them off to fight off an invasion most are going to be operated by people with a weak ATA gene.
    It would be ludicrous that the SG:C training program doesn't include a complete Jumper piloting training module. Even in SG:A they eventually made it mandatory for every member. We have every tools at our disposal such as virtual realities for training.

    Also we know that jumpers can be remotely controlled to some extent.

    I would also add that firing up a control chair doesn't necessarily use that much energy in the grand scheme of things.
    Well that brings us to another question. Can we interface some Naq. Gens to be used with the Chair? I do agree it doesn't seem power hungry so why would we need a ZPM for that? As far as we know Naquadah Generators have been interfaced with Atlantis systems and worked just fine. This could mean we wouldn't lose any defensive capabilities by ''wasting'' the ZPM to dial Destiny.

    Here's another interesting question: What would be the point of dialing Destiny anyway? It would be a one way trip, how would you bring the ZPM back on the ship to dial back again to Earth?

    To ''rescue'' Destiny's crew we would need to find another way to first dial, bring a ZPM over with a couple scientists, interface the ZPM with Destiny's system, dial Earth back again.

    Also in the grand scheme of things, I believe as SGU went on that most of the crew eventually accepted their fate, and do not need rescuing anymore. Some I'm sure would choose to stay, such as Rush.

  15. #115
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    The only reason the Icarus planet blew up is due to the instability of Naquadriah. They mentioned many times that this element is quite dangerous and prone to uncontrollable chain reactions. It tells us nothing in regards to power or energy potential.
    It actually does tell us a lot about power AND energy potential
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Well that brings us to another question. Can we interface some Naq. Gens to be used with the Chair?
    Yes, this has been tried and it worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Here's another interesting question: What would be the point of dialing Destiny anyway? It would be a one way trip, how would you bring the ZPM back on the ship to dial back again to Earth?
    there are 3 ZPM's in atlantis. You could use one to dial destiny, throw another through, and dial earth again. Likely depleting two of the three in the process, wasting ridiculous amounts of energy that could be better spent on literally anything. Unlike Icarus planets, which are too big to power earth or earth's defenses with, cannot fully power a Daealus class to allow it to reach pegasus fast or allow it to fight the strongest ships in the known universe.

    Using ZPM's to dial destiny makes no tactical or strategic sense. SGA spent 5 years searching for the damn things, risking their lives for them, and using them to save lives and fight powerful enemies. Throwing them away like AA batteries to save 80 people is the epitome of stupidity.

  16. #116
    Major General LtColCarter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Oh sweet baby Jesus! I need to bring my dead horse meme over to this thread.

  17. #117
    Second Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Well you know what? We might just get an official answer to this riddle in the next SG show!!
    ...
    ...
    in the parallel universe in the quantum mirror!

  18. #118
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Well you know what? We might just get an official answer to this riddle in the next SG show!!
    There is no riddle. A ZPM can probably dial destiny, there's just no reason to give up such important strategic resources to save a handful of people.

    The fact that naquahdriah blew up a planet gives us a minimum energy content. The fact that it blew up in seconds gives us a minimum power level. The fact that the ZPM could do so too, suggests they're on a similar level. The fact that we didn't see the full explosion extent of the explosion, and never saw the full extent of a ZPM explosion, hints that we may never know the full truth. But that doesn't matter, since even after dialling destiny it's not like the planet experienced massive climate change or turned molten, indicating that it wasn't using the full power of blowing up a planet to power the gate.

    So, with everything we know, we can conclusively state that a ZPM would power the gate. It would probably significantly deplete such a ZPM and there's no reason to waste such valuable resources on such a useless plan. But it would probably work.

  19. #119
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    It would be ludicrous that the SG:C training program doesn't include a complete Jumper piloting training module. Even in SG:A they eventually made it mandatory for every member. We have every tools at our disposal such as virtual realities for training.
    The issue I mentioned has nothing to do with training and was instead all about how most pilots have weak ATA genes, which puts a cap on their ability to effectively control drones in battle regardless of how much training they go through. When trying to combat an alien fleet in close proximity to Earth, you want someone with with a strong gene controlling your drone defenses. There's very little room for error as enemies need to be taken out before any attacks can get through since ship based weapons can generally cause significant surface damage very quickly.

    Also we know that jumpers can be remotely controlled to some extent.
    From a powered up control chair.

    Well that brings us to another question. Can we interface some Naq. Gens to be used with the Chair? I do agree it doesn't seem power hungry so why would we need a ZPM for that? As far as we know Naquadah Generators have been interfaced with Atlantis systems and worked just fine.
    Well when I say it's not power hungry I mean in the grand scheme of a ZPM's capabilities. Three together can maintain a huge city ship's shields against deep underwater pressure for 10,000 years. Dialing a nearby galaxy or powering up the chair to make quick work of enemy ships requires quite a bit of energy by the standards of existing power sources, but it's a small amount of a ZPM's available capacity.

    As for using a naquadah generator, they tried that in "The Siege." That was when the Mark II was introduced, which had a power output increase of 600 over the Mark I. Also, according to Mckay...

    "this generator can only power the chair because it operates in a state of barely-controlled overload—"

    When it came time to use it again for their remote control jumper plan...

    MCKAY
    The generator's not powering up like it should be.

    ...

    We must have exhausted the Mark II's energy output. It's dead!


    It worked for a few minutes to launch a few dozen drones at individual darts, so they're not yet at the point where a naquadah generator can power hundreds, possibly thousands of drones at once against a fleet. In the future, this will likely change considering a Mark XII was "theoretically" capable of powering Atlantis' shields "The Last Man" for a couple hundred years.

    This could mean we wouldn't lose any defensive capabilities by ''wasting'' the ZPM to dial Destiny.
    There's still the issue that ZPMs are needed to power Atlantis and are valuable for safeguarding Earth's defense by using in 304s. A Wraith attack, for example, can be very dangerous to Earth because of the potential for thousands of darts to be left over after the weapon's platform takes out their capital ships. Earth doesn't have enough drones available to deal with them individually, which means a large dart swarm can do quite a bit of damage by engaging in suicide runs and by causing general havoc. The Wraith can also opt to hyperspace to the solar system and hang back, out of range of the weapons platform while first sending dart waves like they did in the finale. To avoid this it's best to confront and destroy incoming Wraith ships before they reach Earth, which is made easier with each available ZPM.

    Here's another interesting question: What would be the point of dialing Destiny anyway? It would be a one way trip, how would you bring the ZPM back on the ship to dial back again to Earth?
    The point would ideally be that you could send over supplies and technical expertise that could potentially repair the Destiny's power storage system, allowing them to store enough energy from a sun to dial home. If Earth doesn't have the ability to do that then, yes, using a single ZPM just to dial in would do nothing.

    If you're suggesting they bring a ZPM and leave it there then I concur with thekillman said about how that would be so much more of a waste that there's even less of a no way chance that Earth would green light doing that to bring a few dozen people home.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    :s
    I like Sharky

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