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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    The device your talking about is essentially the Arcturus reactor but dumps all the particles created by it that violate physics into another universe. It was stated to have the power of dozens of ZPMs and at a 50% power it overloaded(lost containment of particles, I think) it destroyed 5/6 of a solar system.(this may include the sun). Also the 5/6 solar system can be interpreted many ways. It caused extinction level event on a solar system scale. Vaporize 5/6 of the solar system. Or(my opinion) could destroy the Daedalus at 5/6 of the solar system.

    Also the solar system can be interpreted as ending at the ort cloud which is 50.000AU(AU distance sun->earth) or ~ one light-year.

  2. #62
    First Lieutenant lord groovy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirdin1992 View Post
    The device your talking about is essentially the Arcturus reactor but dumps all the particles created by it that violate physics into another universe. It was stated to have the power of dozens of ZPMs and at a 50% power it overloaded(lost containment of particles, I think) it destroyed 5/6 of a solar system.(this may include the sun). Also the 5/6 solar system can be interpreted many ways. It caused extinction level event on a solar system scale. Vaporize 5/6 of the solar system. Or(my opinion) could destroy the Daedalus at 5/6 of the solar system.

    Also the solar system can be interpreted as ending at the ort cloud which is 50.000AU(AU distance sun->earth) or ~ one light-year.
    then powerful enough for the Destiny ?
    Note : Was it the same than the one used in Daedalus variations? able to power an alternate dimension drive?
    La vie est une tragédie - Tout le monde meurt à la fin.
    L'Histoire est une comédie - Les gentils gagnent toujours à la fin.

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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by lord groovy View Post
    then powerful enough for the Destiny ?
    Definitely. It blew up the solar system at 50% power. Can supply the same power as 25 ZPM at 100%(here). Meas that a ZPM could destroy~7% of the solar system alone. So yes..... Both the Arcturus device and ZPM can supply the power for dialing the destiny

    Note : Was it the same than the one used in Daedalus variations? able to power an alternate dimension drive?
    No. People confuse the subspace 'tap' that it used to fill a capacitor to the necessary charge to power a alternate universe jump with a ZPM which gets its power from zero point energy (read here) it would be explained better.

  4. #64
    First Lieutenant lord groovy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    but with the subspace tap you could fill a capacitor over time until you reach ZPM or Arcturus level of energy then open a gate to Destiny.
    La vie est une tragédie - Tout le monde meurt à la fin.
    L'Histoire est une comédie - Les gentils gagnent toujours à la fin.

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  5. #65
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    yah...you could. If you had a lot a time.... years maybe to fill the capacitor for just a single shot.

    Also the sun idea the people on SGU came up with is stupid and shouldn't have enough power to dial the gate if it requires planet busting power.

    Read here and here.

    The thing is to bust a planet like earth, they would need to store all the energy of the sun generates in a couple of weeks and the red dwarf has lot less power output than the big ball of nuclear reaction that we have over our heads.

  6. #66
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirdin1992 View Post
    yah...you could. If you had a lot a time.... years maybe to fill the capacitor for just a single shot.

    Also the sun idea the people on SGU came up with is stupid and shouldn't have enough power to dial the gate if it requires planet busting power.

    Read here and here.

    The thing is to bust a planet like earth, they would need to store all the energy of the sun generates in a couple of weeks and the red dwarf has lot less power output than the big ball of nuclear reaction that we have over our heads.
    Actually the idea was not stupid, if you consider that Destiny doesn't suck up whatever energy she's hit with from the fusion taking place in the photosphere, but literally sucks up HUGE amounts of fusion fuel, which can be fused later on at a rate which remains undefined. This way you don't have a stupid contradiction with a ship that could only hope to gather very limited amounts of power (all relative) by flying close to a sun. Notice, by the way, that although it's artistic liberty we're dealing with, you didn't see the area around the Destiny go black, like it would happen if the ship had been draining the energy of every single particle in that region.
    The dive Destiny takes imho is the moment when, after having deployed the ramming scoops, she draws massive amounts of hydrogen, which she hypercompresses in fuel tanks for later use.

    Hell, who knows. Perhaps the fusion fuel is only used to kickstart and maintain a much more complex reaction that is even more powerful? Perhaps a micro-singularity where matter is annihilated.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Oragahn View Post
    Perhaps a micro-singularity where matter is annihilated.
    You cannot annihilate matter without anti-matter, so that wont' work. If it runs on hydrogen, fusion is all you are going to get.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Mr.O-

    It would need several OOM more hydrogen than the actual ships mass. IF it doesn't have a hammerspace it doesn't have the capability to store enough hydrogen.


    Quote Originally Posted by K^2 View Post
    You cannot annihilate matter without anti-matter, so that wont' work. If it runs on hydrogen, fusion is all you are going to get.
    Can you please enlighten me on what the asgard transporter do, please? (not that I'm saying your wrong or anything)

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirdin1992 View Post
    Can you please enlighten me on what the asgard transporter do, please? (not that I'm saying your wrong or anything)
    If I knew I'd build one. But there isn't anything that strictly prevents matter from ceasing to be over here, and instead start existing over there. In fact, this actually happens to elementary particles, and is responsible for many processes in chemistry. There can even be a brief delay where matter doesn't exist anywhere. Uncertainty principle allows for all that. But matter with rest mass cannot arbitrarily become energy with no rest mass. You need a matter-antimatter reaction for that. Since Asgard beam doesn't permanently turn you into energy, there is no strict violation. But as far as actual mechanism, I don't know. I speculated elsewhere that Asgard are masters of gravitational manipulation. It would explain many aspects of their tech. Controlled tunneling under gravitational barrier might work for the transport system, but I don't know why the beam and the lights, and how it manages to work over such large distances through walls and other obstacles, and gets you across without killing you in the process.

    To give you another reference point, I have a better idea on how to build a working Stargate than anything resembling Asgard beam. And the ring transport I can practically give you schematics for.

  10. #70
    Airman Laertes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by lord groovy View Post
    but with the subspace tap you could fill a capacitor over time until you reach ZPM or Arcturus level of energy then open a gate to Destiny.
    He's got a point. Sounds doable.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    sure, if they had the code to access it, didn't the planet's ring have a code?

  12. #72
    Lieutenant Colonel Mister Oragahn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by K^2 View Post
    You cannot annihilate matter without anti-matter, so that wont' work. If it runs on hydrogen, fusion is all you are going to get.
    Unless the system feeds on supraluminal particles. ^_^
    But it could also rely on a rotating singularity that destroys neutrino pairs or annihilate dark matter, which there's plenty to pick in space I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by mirdin1992 View Post
    Mr.O-

    It would need several OOM more hydrogen than the actual ships mass. IF it doesn't have a hammerspace it doesn't have the capability to store enough hydrogen.
    To do what exactly?
    I'm not sure to get what you mean. Are you talking about the issues of creating a small singularity?

    If not, then on a related topic, even a 50% efficient reaction of hydrogen fusion would provide more than 320 e12 J per kilo. There's more than enough hypothetical room inside Destiny to store up to tens if not a few hundred thousand tonnes of hydrogen fuel. If it's compressed (like we managed to compress fusion fuel by direct energy to crank density by a factor of a million or so recently, even if for a short time), the only issue would be not to end with a total fuel mass figure that would come one order of magnitude close to that of the ship's mass, otherwise it would look silly.
    Still, Ancients had the capacity to fiddle with effective mass, even on puddle jumpers, and those ships existed even before Atlantis left Earth millions of years ago.
    I'm also skimming over the technobabble mechanism used to force hydrogen into the ramming scoops Destiny deploys, or the filter the ship would use to harvest hydrogen that's not reacted yet.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    I'm referring to that the Destiny does not have enough space to store the needed energy in the form of hydrogen on the ship to destroy a planet. Metallic hydrogen density or no.
    Last edited by mirdin1992; March 8th, 2010 at 02:19 AM.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    I think a full ZPM could dial Destiny if you could somehow drain it all at once. Remember 1 ZPM held back an ocean of water for 3,333 years on Atlantis. Like someone said before. If they could build a capacitor that could drain a ZPM and allow the Stargate to use it all at once I think a connection could be possible.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    To add my to cents, I don't think a ZPM will do it. (Otherwise, they would have found one and used it by now.) I think it simply doesn't have enough power. But to give this thread a twist, why do we have to make the power source bigger ?....

    When we can make the Gate smaller. We still have that Gate that Orlin build in Carter's basement right ? And 'The Pegasus Project' proves that you can connect a small Gate to a bigger Gate. All we have to get it working again and add two dailing crystals. Due to the smaller diameter of the Gate, the power demands should be smaller as well, and then a ZPM can do the job.

  16. #76
    First Lieutenant Mike.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    I think maintaining the wormhole requires most of the energy over such a large distance. The puddle that takes care of the dematerialization is less important, sending is the hard part. The actual wormhole could be of plank width (really f***n small ) , in both cases.
    Carter:"The singularity is about to explode!"

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    But then you would NEED a ZPM first! And it is not like ZPM's can be bought on a offworld market or in a shop

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Id say it would take lots and lots of ZPMS together to be able to dial it... earth has a handful of them at most which are all being used to defend the planet and atlantis and what not..

    Also something that just occured to me... The ancients weren't planning on dialling the destiny after a million years or whatever length of time has passed... they were planning on dialling it probably after a hundred years or so... no more then a thousand years anyway.. Which would require a lot lot lot less power then to dial it when its a billion light years away (They probably would have been able to make a power source to dial it that far away but when they were going to go there, a single ZPM or 3 ZPMs together would probably have sufficed)

    As for Eli's equation from Air.. I got the impression that it was more to do with getting the highest amount of power into the gate without damaging it or blowing it up, while at the same time not causing the planet to become unstable, which as Rush would have figured if he got the most energy possible into the gate then that would have been enough to dial the 9th chevron.
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle-Jumper View Post
    Id say it would take lots and lots of ZPMS together to be able to dial it... earth has a handful of them at most which are all being used to defend the planet and atlantis and what not..

    Also something that just occured to me... The ancients weren't planning on dialling the destiny after a million years or whatever length of time has passed... they were planning on dialling it probably after a hundred years or so... no more then a thousand years anyway.. Which would require a lot lot lot less power then to dial it when its a billion light years away (They probably would have been able to make a power source to dial it that far away but when they were going to go there, a single ZPM or 3 ZPMs together would probably have sufficed)

    As for Eli's equation from Air.. I got the impression that it was more to do with getting the highest amount of power into the gate without damaging it or blowing it up, while at the same time not causing the planet to become unstable, which as Rush would have figured if he got the most energy possible into the gate then that would have been enough to dial the 9th chevron.
    We don't know when the Ancients planned on going to Destiny, they may have already been there and left. My guess is that they would have planned on going long after they sent it. Thousands of years at least. I just don't see the seeder ships having enough time to really seed that many gates in just a few hundred years.
    I don't think the long distance is what takes so much more power than a ZPM. They can already dial another galaxy which is quite far away. I think the majority of the power is used finding where Destiny is. Dialing a gate that you have an exact location for should take less power. Like they said in "Air" the 9 symbol address isn't really an address, its more of a code. To use the telephone analogy that has been used before. 7 symbols is like a phone number in your area code. 8 symbols is like a number out of your area code. The 9 symbol code is like the red phone on the president's desk. It's a direct line. You need an exact location to establish a wormhole. Destiny's location is always changing. My guess is that when you dial the 9 chevron code the gate sends a message through subspace that covers the entire universe (which would take a lot of power). Once Destiny is located it drops out of FTL and allows a connection to be made, which may not take much more power than dialing Pegasus.

    I could be wrong but it make sense to me.

  20. #80
    Chief Master Sergeant deltaCain054's Avatar
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    Default Re: Would a single ZPM be able to dial Destiny?

    While Pegasus is quite far away, its practically next door when you consider how far away Destiny is. While finding Destiny may take some power, its nothing when compared to the power required to maintain a stable wormhole. But Yes, finding Destiny would still require a lot of power.

    The Ancients intended to travel to Destiny at least a few hundred to a couple thousand years after it launch. However it was most likely abandoned when hyperdrives were created, and then the discovery of Ascension.

    I just thought of something. Remember the device that Anubis used as a gate buster. Is it possible that its original intended use was for supplying enough power to a gate to dial Destiny?

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