The End of Time, Part 2 (2009)

[striker7770]

i kinda liked it, especially the last 10 "goodbye minutes". The master played his part really well, from powerhungry, to begging for mercy, then revenge.

I wished the donna line went a lot further, im guessing she still dosnt remember but she didnt die?

The wilf storyline went well, but it seemed stretched out in someparts, like the gun scene, great emotion, no pace.

After watching the trailer for the new season, im very dissapointed, the whole trailer seemed too theatrical, more like a c rated sci-fi channel movie starring stephen baldwin then the show it should be. (check it out, stephen baldwin is in like 5 sci fi movies).

The worst part of the whole year was definitly matt smith at the last minute of the whole thing, i thought the regeneration was perfect, until the kid just comes in a crashes the party like a drunken frat boy.

finally, anybody know if there is going to be a soundtrack for this year, i can get rid of the slow singing voice during the goodbye scene

[Joachim]

Are you suggesting I am at fault for that?

Generally when the reasoning is primarily subjective, emotional, by nature then yes that is the case.

However in this particular instance, your logic is relatively sound and I do wish that Wilfred had done a little bit more.

But, at the same time, the way it was done was interesting; what if ultimately that was the entire point? To build up to something, only to have it simmer down in the end? In essence the momentum, the energy, was transferred from Wilfred to The Doctor.

This flies imo, in the fact of what's already been established, even within New Who. It's the same damn guy, not someone different who just has his memories and his name.

To be blunt, your opinion seems derived more from a badly defined perception of what a "person" is. He has a new personality, a new body, simply with the same memories. That could easily be called becoming a new person, particularly when you consider the 10th doctors later vanity in which he could see it as death because ultimately it wouldn't be him anymore, and couldn't possibly be as good.

[Puddle-Jumper]

Just rewatching it there and Im kinda a bit angry at RTD... cos there was huge build up to the timelords return and in my mind it was going to totally change things for the new series.. especially since the doctor said that the timelords changed at the end of the war... and it was just snapped away again in a heartbeat..... and I was so excited about the drums being explained... heart beat of a timelord and all that jazz, it was perfect... I just wish it was left with the Doctor saying something along the lines of 'this fractured the time lock'.. 'timelords not gone for good'... something!.... (which would also allow for the return of the Daleks and what not.. though that could be easily worked in next season I suppose... Steven Moffet will no doubt do a good job of it

I wish something better had been done with Donna too... that she remembered, figured out a way for her to live without burning up for a short period of time, helped the doctor and she died at the end maybe, my understanding is that Steven Moffet isn't going to be looking for previous companions back again anyway... (John Barrowman said in an interview that he hasn't been asked back and he didn't expect to be)

and the time lady not being explained was just downright odd...

[SaberBlade]

I loved it, but I did think that parts did drag on. At times it just seemed to go on for longer than it should have. I did enjoy seeing what people were doing, like Martha and Mickey, Jack, the granddaughter of the woman he loved from WWI, I think the Sarah Jane bit wasn't needed but was worth seeing in her recognise what was wrong and of course Captain Jack (even throwing in Alonso from the Titanic was a nice past reference).

I think these scenes were important just because we may never see these characters again (according to the Confidential based for this episode).

I will need to rewatch the episode at some point. I was distracted for a split second near the end and could swear I saw a Boba Fett'ish character walking past the screen when meeting Jack. I noticed the stargate references, such as Time Lord's looking to Ascend when being the most powerful race who are facing extinction and of course, the Immortality "Gate". Even having a person dressed in white who appeared to be an Acended version of who I would assume to be the Doctor's mother (just my theory though)

[carno]

so Rassilon's glove...... wasn't the TW glove one of a pair?? Maybe that was the other one.

[carno]

got the feeling that the timelord woman was either the doctors wife or Donna, because Wilf asked the doctor who the woman was and he looked over to Donna in her wedding dress. Maybe at some point Donna becomes a timelord due to her meta crisis and when she dies as a human she regenerats, some how travles back in time and joins the time war?? I don't know he looked at her for some reason, other wise they wouldn't of put it in the episode. Just somthing really small I picked up on. Also who was the other timelord that opposed Rassilon and the other timelords???

[SGalisa]

about the regeneration bit...
based on what I've read about some of the comments thinking #11 showing up was too much like #10 finding out about himself -- well, if I'm reading this as I think it has happened, that's what most of the other Doctor's selves have done -- meaning the ones we've been allowed to actually witness upon the arrival of the new actor in the new Doctor's *body*. They all have discovered what nuances were different about their new body. Be it hair, teeth, a musical interest (#2) or cricket (#5), they've all changed and taken a look-see at what they've now become (next).

I'm going to take a guess at what happened, because I haven't seen it yet--

Frankly, I'm going to put down the stupid opinion of regeneration that Doc 10 appeared to have down to the fact that he'd become a bit of a tw*t. Egostical and arrogant. Liked himself too much. I highly doubt any of the other Doctor's felt the same - heck Doc 10 even talked about his previous selves as simply being 'him being young' in Time Crash.

awww.. seriously? He's always been a bit above "himselves"
I think he said as much in a Peter Davidson episode..

Spoiler:

#2 and 3 Doctors once got into a heated debate over which of each other was the more important one.. (it was considered *campy* stuff in those days =)

I'm fairly certain that Doctor #4 very much liked himself, too. It was part of his character's *persona* to behave that way, at times.. and it usually always worked by having the audience rolling their eyes and shaking their head in sheer disbelief from him actually thinking that way..

As I mentioned earlier, this time round it seemed different. Normally, the impression I got was that they regenerate, get a new body, new feelings and emotions and what not, but are essentially the same person.

Now it makes it seem as though, after each regeneration, its a totally new person, but with the same memories.

that's historically true. Same memories, different body and personality. Doctor #1 made that possible because of a real life event, and ever since that fateful day, it's become a trademark of the series. Good, bad, or whatever mood the Doctor shows up as, he's still the same core *Being*.

The doctor is the doctor, no matter what.
... Unlike previous Doctors, as far as i'm aware, they didn't know that they would have to regenerate.

Actually, some of them (previous Doctor versions) did know. Watch Tom Baker's (Doctor # 4) last episode. I found it quite emotional from knowing that was the last of Doctor # 4.

Spoiler:

The regeneration was hidden in the background, thruout the entire episode. -- and it was another "MASTER" story, too, if I remember correctly -- The Doctor knew his time was short and ending soon, in that particular "body".. He as much hinted and said so, before he left.

And it was also one of the more rarer moments when *whovians* got to actually see some sort of regeneration process actually occur -- which is different from Doctor's 9 & 10.. with 9 & 10, I think it is assumed that such visualizations occurred all the time. The regenerations were, in fact, not always seen.. so when # 9 changed into 10, it was a unique novelty and better done than #2 into 3 and 4 changing into # 5..

And I think Tom Baker's Doctor made his own awareness of his impending *death* cycle have more of an impact, just from what happened (for those who haven't seen -- do watch the episode to find out..). Was the name of the episode "Logopolis"..?
(I'm too lazy to drag out the book of ep titles)

4. Err... why did the Tardis start falling apart? Though my theory is because the Doctor is trying to fight the regeneration and the Tardis is reacting to the turmoil within him.

interesting theory.. and one that I had thought of, but went with the remodeling idea instead. Either way, could be what happens.. or it could be from some other reason.. The TARDIS is getting older and breaking down more frequently too? *who* knows..


The one thing that I will most likely miss is the beautifully powerful music sequences. I'm going to guess with the new everything, the music will change, as well..

[Replicator Todd]

I loved this episode, and I'm a bit sad. This episode had me very emotional. I was completely surprised by who really was knocking four times. I really enjoyed seeing past companions and creatures! Although some of it was a bit confusing. Goodbye, David Tennant, I will miss you. Matt Smith has big shoes to fill, and I think he is going to be just fine.

EDIT: Oh yeah and I was happy the Time Lords aren't really back.

[PMN1]

I wonder what The Doctor would have done if Wilf had only tapped two or three times?

[Reefgirl]

That's quite the joy of it, sn't it? we don't know!

In written canon Romana was President, with a bit of twisting she could have been on the council

[DigiFluid]

Pretty disappointed with Part 2, to be honest.

Who/what was accelerating the development of the Ood?; the Time Lord/Gallifrey thing was totally botched; there was no reason for Wilf to knock 4 times after being told by the Doctor that's how he knew it would be time for him to die; the Doctor didn't die, just regenerated; the whole gun thing was pointless, his screwdriver could've done it; there's no explanation as to who the woman was or why she was appearing to Wilf; Donna's appearance/remembering things was totally wasted; Mickey/Martha WTF + why the hell was there a Sontaran on Earth?; while a great exit for John Simm's Master, the Master (a longstanding Who villain!!) is now trapped in the Time Lock; if the Time Lords were awaiting a 4-beat response signal, why didn't they detect it when the Master was blasting it across the Earth for a year back in series 29?

Didn't much like Matt Smith's introduction either. Someone earlier in this thread said it was a bit like a frat boy showing up and crashing the party--I thought that was a perfect way of putting it. I'm still keeping an open mind for him as the regular, since I didn't like DT by the end of Christmas Invasion either, but my first impression was quite negative.

Good freaking riddance, RTD. David Tennant was and is awesome, and you just wasted his send-off. Bring on Stephen Moffatt, please.

[Ian-S]

post drinking session now
can't really add much to what's already been written, I know crazy God like beings who want to/have ascend is pre-Stargate, but to take the exact same premise, description, and saying from Stargate is one thing, but to then slag off Stargate like the way RTD has (especially when the expected replacement for Tennant snubbed them and joined SG:U) just smacks of hypocrisy.

A few plot twists but the whole episode seems like RTD had written the end first then looked around to see what ideas he could use from other shows, I was disappointed in there being no explanation for the Ode, no explanation for the hand device either, oh I could go on, the woman should have been explained in a better way (all Tennant had to do was mutter "mum" or something - even RTD admits on the podcast she was a plot device and he had no idea who she was really).

One thing the podcast does tell you is RTD only wrote the episode up to the point of regeneration, Moffatt wrote the part after regeneration, so if the Doctor's acting isn't liked (or too familar to DT), you actually have Moffatt to blame not RTD.

The best part of the episode was the conversation between Wilf and the Doctor on the ship.

Oh and I see in the trailers the new Doctor's companion is a Police Woman, haven't we already had this "Police Woman see's secret squirrel crap and follows leads and finds alien stuff" storyline before? I hope that's not an indication that Moffatt intends to recycle every old Who/Torchwood story.

Oh one last thing, I saw it discussed before somewhere whether EoT was pre or post CoE, EoT is POST Children of Earth (explained by Jack being on the space station and RTD in the podcast).

[Flyboy]

Pretty disappointed with Part 2, to be honest.

Who/what was accelerating the development of the Ood?; the Time Lord/Gallifrey thing was totally botched; there was no reason for Wilf to knock 4 times after being told by the Doctor that's how he knew it would be time for him to die; the Doctor didn't die, just regenerated; the whole gun thing was pointless, his screwdriver could've done it; there's no explanation as to who the woman was or why she was appearing to Wilf; Donna's appearance/remembering things was totally wasted; Mickey/Martha WTF + why the hell was there a Sontaran on Earth?; while a great exit for John Simm's Master, the Master (a longstanding Who villain!!) is now trapped in the Time Lock; if the Time Lords were awaiting a 4-beat response signal, why didn't they detect it when the Master was blasting it across the Earth for a year back in series 29?

Didn't much like Matt Smith's introduction either. Someone earlier in this thread said it was a bit like a frat boy showing up and crashing the party--I thought that was a perfect way of putting it. I'm still keeping an open mind for him as the regular, since I didn't like DT by the end of Christmas Invasion either, but my first impression was quite negative.

Good freaking riddance, RTD. David Tennant was and is awesome, and you just wasted his send-off. Bring on Stephen Moffatt, please.

I agree with EVERYTHING that you have said here.

I'm not an RTD 'hater', he deserves a lot of credit as producer, but as a writer I don't appreciate him. He frankly reminds me of a fanfiction writer - his stories have that level of quality to me.

Let's take New Who S2 for example, all the fantastic episodes like Impossible Planet, or School Reunion, WEREN'T RTD, instead he delivered us the attrocious Army of Ghosts with it's horrifically fanwanky battle between Daleks and Cybermen - seriously, this is the sort of crap you get in forums *looks around - ah...* where fans like to argue about 'who would win???1' it may be amusing to discuss, but it should NOT be brought onto screen, it's tacky. He's also responsible for that damn ending of Doomsday with Rose. Ergh. Oh we can also blame him for Love and Monsters.

Runaway Bride? Atrocious. Honestly awful with the exception of the scene where the Doctor actually kills the Racnos.

Don't get me wrong, he's also done some GREAT stuff. Sound of Drums trilogy, Midnight, Turn Left, Journey's End, brilliant. But ultimatly, he's written the WORST stuff. Furthermore, and I WILL say this - he does still manage to ruin GREAT episodes with some utter ******** concepts. Did we really need the love story with Rose? What about turning the Doctor into Dobby? *sigh*

I also think this whole Time War think has been dragged on too long... essentially ALL of the finale's have been, in some way, about the Time War. I get it's been an important theme, and it's a GOOD concept. But there was no need for it all the time.

I think that RTD just likes big and shiny, and thinks that equates to 'epic'. If it's not moving Earth across time and space, it's turning everyone on Earth into the Master. Some of the best Doctor Who stories imo are lower scale.

But hey, what do I know.

Other than the fact that DT has, wrongly, imo, been put on a pedastle when he is no different to any other actor who has played the Doctor. I AM looking forward to the new era, because even if Matt Smith isn't great, I think the writing will be fantastic.

If it's true that the reason we saw the gang at the end is because we won't ever see them again - good. The only two of those imo that should be revisited are Sarah Jane, and Jack Harkness.

[Kidwizz]

After seen the 2010 preview

Spoiler:

THE WEEPING ANGELS ARE BACK!!!

Vampires?? (Cashing in on Twilight anyone?)
Daleks (but I got the impression that it was a 'dud' dalek

I'm really looking forward to Matt Smith's Doctor

Spoiler:

Yep. indeed they are!

Yeah twilight here we come :/

There was two daleks, the black one 11 hit and then a white one.

Also... river song anyone?

I cant wait for him!

[Flyboy]

Spoiler:

Yep. indeed they are!

Yeah twilight here we come :/

There was two daleks, the black one 11 hit and then a white one.

Also... river song anyone?

I cant wait for him!

Vampires does not equate to Twilight - believe it or not, Vampires were around long before those damn movies/books. Besides, Twilight is about 'sexy' vampires - these vamps don't look all that sexy.