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The End of Time, Part 2 (2009)

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    #46
    Complete and utter tosh! The End of Time made no sense...

    : Book of Saxon.... WTF?
    : Potions of life and the reverse of.... WTF?
    : How was the Doctor the Master's saviour?
    : Why bring back Donna and have her remember.... and then do bugger all with it?
    : So the whole point of Wilf was to force the death of Ten, seriously he did nothing else... ohhh yeah he had visions from some random Time Lady.... which helped how?
    : Who was random Time Lady? RTD thought she was important to the point that saying that the outfit she was wearing in part one was important.. really? I don't see how!
    : What the hell happened to the Master at the end? did he burn up his energy at the end? or what?
    : Martha and Micky..... WTF... Martha can do so much better.

    So yeah hated it... roll on Steven Moffat!

    edit: ohh yeah and why bother bringing the Timelords back for a 5 minute confrontation with the Doctor just to shove back to whence they came.
    Last edited by The_Carpenter; 01 January 2010, 01:33 PM.
    A word of advice... there are creatures that live between this dimension and the next, fiendish creatures that feast on the suffering of an entire world to satiate their eternal hunger. Support the Gateworld Cantina or suffer the fate of all who fall into the clutches of the 'Eladrith Ynneas'

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      #47
      Originally posted by Aerilon View Post
      Killing off all Timelords is one thing, but..

      The Doctor and Master escaped. We know how the Doctor did it, we don't know about the Master. Either way, I don't see why we can't have a few other rouge timelords out there somewhere, either with their memories stored in a watch, or just out and around in the galaxy.
      Although, how many godlike creatures can you have running around the universe?
      What I meant was, before this aired, I really wanted the Time Lords to stay alive cos I think that would have given a new dimension to the Doctor's story - we've seen him taking them for granted and disliking them and their stuffy behaviour, we've seen him guilt-ridden and nostalgic about them, but we haven't seen - and prolly not see for a long long time - him having to deal with what he's done while they're actually back. Which is something I really want to see.
      But, as I said, I'm willing to forgive them that for the revelation that destroying Gallifrey wasn't done in order to destroy the Daleks, it was done in order to destroy the Time Lords
      Even though we'll never know. My money is on his mother.
      Ah, mine's on his daughter (Susan's mother) actually
      Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
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        #48
        I'm waiting for the Asgard to make an appearance.

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          #49
          Originally posted by PMN1 View Post
          I'm waiting for the Asgard to make an appearance.
          the master ate them already
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            #50
            My money is on that woman being Romana

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              #51
              Originally posted by Reefgirl View Post
              My money is on that woman being Romana
              That's quite the joy of it, sn't it? we don't know!
              Pinky, are you thinking what I'm thinking?
              Yes, I am!
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                #52
                1. Were the earlier incarnations of the Doctor always hoping to redeem the Master - it makes sense given what I know the character's history and I liked it.

                2. Time Lords - yes RTD has been watching too much Gate.

                3. Again though I liked the Doctor and Master being on the same side for once, even if only briefly - what will happen to the Master now though?

                4. The revisits....Martha and Mickey...an eyebrow raiser...Captain Jack...fine...Sarah Jane's kid...I needed my niece's help in recognising him as I don't watch SJA...Rose in NYD '05. Was there snow in London that year?

                5. First impressions of Smith-Doctor? Have no issues but you can't judge a character on 30 secs of monologue.
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                  #53
                  Originally posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
                  [SPOILERS]
                  For a start I think Wilf was handled terribly. He was set up to be an old soldier who was yet to fight his key battle, and then what was his role? To get trapped in a bloody cubicle and lead to the Doctor's death. And even the Doctor started slagging him off for that. Wilf should have played a major role in this, not get shafted as he did.[/spoiler]
                  Your expectation-o-meter however probably kept raising the bar to unobjective levels. Most complaints I see about the modern series is that it doesnt give you quite what YOU want.

                  Spoiler:
                  Wilf helped The Doctor fend off The Master's missles and tested The Doctor's morality. What, you think that he was going to let him sit in there to die?

                  The Doctor vents exactly what you do in that scene...that the whole prophecy isnt "fair" and not what he thought it would be..but that is what Doctor Who is about.


                  Spoiler:
                  Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.
                  Spoiler:
                  He thought the radiation would kill him before he regenerated or kill him during it. He said in the FIRST INSTALMENT that time lords can be killed before they can change, and "Planet of the Spiders" proves this.

                  Pay attention to the whole story, it might help you.


                  Furthermore, I think they cheaped the idea of regeneration by suggesting that the next doctor is not as much of the Doctor as the current Doctor is.
                  They didnt suggest any of that. Seems to me you're making stuff up.

                  I'm also not happy at all with the introduction of Matt Smith, he was written too similarly to DT in this scene, which I think damaged the moment considerably.
                  Davies wrote his lines. How you can take that scene and immediatly judge him I don't know, but it's a sign of your typical ignorance.

                  It didnt damage anything for me. A new Doctor, new adventures, I'm enjoying it.

                  Spoiler:
                  Oh and RTD has obviously been watching Stargate - Now the Timelords want to ASCEND! Dear me. I somehow doubt 'the others' would be happy with that.
                  Spoiler:
                  The themes of insane Gods and Ascension existed long before Stargate

                  Davies also despises Stargate


                  Spoiler:
                  Btw - was it just me, or did the Doctor call the Lord President 'Rassilon'?
                  Yes, he did. I had to watch it a second time (based on the line he said about the two Time Lords that disagreed with him()

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                    #54
                    Thing is Rassilon was the creator of their way of life, right? Dalton's character may simply be named after the original. That makes sense to me.
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                      #55
                      I think we have to assume he's Rassilon. Time and space don't mean much in a time war, they would have recruited him to lead the charge.

                      As for the Woman, I'm sure she's The Doctor's mother, not Romana, but Davies leaving that unanswered was great, as it leaves lingering mysteries as to The Doctor's origins

                      edit: ohh yeah and why bother bringing the Timelords back for a 5 minute confrontation with the Doctor just to shove back to whence they came.
                      To show why they CAN'T come back.

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                        #56
                        Originally posted by Admiral Mappalazarou View Post
                        Thing is Rassilon was the creator of their way of life, right? Dalton's character may simply be named after the original. That makes sense to me.
                        I actually thought they might have resurrected Rassilon to help lead them in their time of war. He did create the War Games after all and wasn't exactly the nicest Timelord on Gallifrey. He also had rather a twisted sense of humour as he shoed in The Five Doctors. To win is to lose, and he looses wins....
                        If found, is probably lost on the way to Azaroth or the Pegasus Galaxy
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                          #57
                          Zarius,

                          You sir, are disgustingly rude.


                          Originally posted by Zarius View Post
                          Your expectation-o-meter however probably kept raising the bar to unobjective levels. Most complaints I see about the modern series is that it doesnt give you quite what YOU want.

                          Spoiler:
                          Wilf helped The Doctor fend off The Master's missles and tested The Doctor's morality. What, you think that he was going to let him sit in there to die?

                          The Doctor vents exactly what you do in that scene...that the whole prophecy isnt "fair" and not what he thought it would be..but that is what Doctor Who is about.
                          I generally very much enjoy 'New Who' and when I complain about an episode, I do so for the same reason I complain about any other episode. Maybe my expectations were to high, or maybe they were just different. Either way, I didn't enjoy this episode any where near as much as I should do. Are you suggesting I am at fault for that?

                          In my opinion, Wilf had been built up through his experiences with the anonymous woman and the chat with the Doctor in the cafe, to be gearing towards him physically doing something important, not just be the person the Doctor dies saving. That was how I interpreted it.


                          Originally posted by Zarius View Post

                          Spoiler:
                          He thought the radiation would kill him before he regenerated or kill him during it. He said in the FIRST INSTALMENT that time lords can be killed before they can change, and "Planet of the Spiders" proves this.



                          Pay attention to the whole story, it might help you.

                          Again - you are incredibly rude. Yes I am aware that he thought the radiation would kill him, I am however referring to his attitude when he KNEW that he was going to regenerate. I did pay attention to the whole story, so BACK THE HELL OF SIR.

                          Originally posted by Zarius View Post

                          They didnt suggest any of that. Seems to me you're making stuff up.
                          I perhaps didn't make myself as clear as I could do. But if YOU had paid attention in the previous episode, it is suggested by the Doctor that regeneration IS like dying, because the person that walks away, might have his memories, but it isn't HIM. This flies imo, in the fact of what's already been established, even within New Who. It's the same damn guy, not someone different who just has his memories and his name.

                          Originally posted by Zarius View Post

                          Davies wrote his lines. How you can take that scene and immediatly judge him I don't know, but it's a sign of your typical ignorance.

                          It didnt damage anything for me. A new Doctor, new adventures, I'm enjoying it.
                          I WASN'T judging. If you READ my post properly sir, you would realise that actually I was saying that I wasn't impressed by the scene. I am looking forward to Doc 11, because I BELIEVE what I've read that he will be a different enough Doctor to be interesting. However, THIS scene didn't convey that, and I was dissapointed by this.

                          Originally posted by Zarius View Post

                          Spoiler:
                          The themes of insane Gods and Ascension existed long before Stargate

                          Davies also despises Stargate
                          Yes. Fine. Of course. But you CANNOT deny the similarities, even through phraseology. Did I claim 'rip off!' ? No I did not. But it was very much a Stargate-esque moment. I didn't say that was a bad thing mind you.


                          "Five Rounds Rapid"

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                            #58
                            I was disappointed. Sure, I was entertained, but it just seems like RTD's big epic episodes consist of a few major plot points hastily tied together with 'science'. In fact, a little research and I came across his early notes on writing this episode...
                            Russycake's list of Dr Who End of Time awesome bits:
                            1. More The Master- but Lightning Shooty!
                            2. Wilf. People like Wilf.
                            3. Everyone else.
                            4. Like, six million billion trillion more The Masters.
                            5. Making Timelords evil and bringing them back but then not.
                            6. REGENERATION.
                            7. Laser Spaceship!
                            8. DALEKS VS CYBERMEN!!!.... oh wait, I already done that. oops.

                            So The Master comes back, and then is all Lightning Shooty, then some guys capture him and give him a machine to make like a million billion trillion The Masters. Oh, and Wilf is there, and Donna is around. And then the Timelords are coming back cos of science and four beeps but now they're evil so the Doctor sends them away again after flying the LASER SPACESHIP and jumping into the building. Then someones gonna die so he sacrifices himself, but only after he says goodbye to Everyone Else (like, Martha and Mickey and Donna and Sarah Jane and that kid from that show she has and Rose and Jack... Also the Cybermen turn up but the Daleks also show up and they fight! Then REGENERATION but an epic explodey one. The End.

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                              #59
                              There's a difference between a civil debate and sniping back and forth. Please keep to discussing the show and keep the personal comments out of it. Remember that opinions are just that OPINIONS and thus not right nor wrong. You can challenge an opinion and discuss it but flat out telling someone their wrong isn't exactly conducive to discussion. Remember, we all see things differently based upon our own perspectives.

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                                #60
                                The doctor is the doctor, no matter what. But it can also be perceived as a different person. Thats what makes doctor who such a great character. I can understand what he says. Unlike previous Doctors, as far as i'm aware, they didn't know that they would have to regenerate. No 10 does. He's had all this time tho think about it. Each personality of the doctor is ever so different. For me, his reaction makes sense considering he knew it was going to happen.


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