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  1. #1
    Site Admin GateWorld's Avatar
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    Default The End of Time, Part 2 (2009)

    Visit the Episode GuideDOCTOR WHO
    THE END OF TIME, PART 2

    With all of Earth under the Master's control, the Doctor tries to convince him that there is yet a greater threat to them both: the Time Lords are returning.

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    Last edited by Darren; April 10th, 2011 at 03:08 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default "End Of Time" random thought.

    After now watching all 4 series again.....

    I don't know which series but the Doctor said to one of his companions, possibly Martha that he saw Galifrey burn..... That he was the cause of it. Something along those lines and I am kind of sure it was Martha.

    That made me think of the very first of the new series and Parting Of The Ways and I wonder if the Doctor used a weapon like the Delta Wave as a last ditch effort to fight the Daleks and it caused both them and Galifrey to burn while he was safe in the TARDIS watching as a helpless observer.....

    Now that we are getting End of time What do people think of this?

  3. #3
    Colonel Replicator Todd's Avatar
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    Well, if that is the reason then the Time Lords have a good reason to have a vendetta against The Doctor, and to be angry. I wonder if this means the Time Lords will be enemies in the next series.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    Well the Doctor was always seemingly on the run from his own people in the original classic series. I think I'd quite enjoy a return to that, although the return of the Time Lords kinda destroys the point of the last four series for me
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  5. #5
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Mappalazarou View Post
    Well the Doctor was always seemingly on the run from his own people in the original classic series. I think I'd quite enjoy a return to that, although the return of the Time Lords kinda destroys the point of the last four series for me
    As did every reappearance of the daleks after the Doctor's constant 'they're all gone' rhetoric.


    "Five Rounds Rapid"




  6. #6
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    Well I'm glad the timelords are returning. I just hope that they will be here to stay, not like the return of the ancients in SGA.

  7. #7
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
    ...that he saw Galifrey burn..... That he was the cause of it. Something along those lines and I am kind of sure it was Martha.

    That made me think of the very first of the new series and Parting Of The Ways and I wonder if the Doctor used a weapon like the Delta Wave as a last ditch effort to fight the Daleks and it caused both them and Galifrey to burn while he was safe in the TARDIS watching as a helpless observer.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Replicator Todd View Post
    Well, if that is the reason then the Time Lords have a good reason to have a vendetta against The Doctor, and to be angry. I wonder if this means the Time Lords will be enemies in the next series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Mappalazarou View Post
    Well the Doctor was always seemingly on the run from his own people in the original classic series...
    Actually, I think from earlier DW (actor #) versions, I think the Doctor and the Time Lords never did ever agree on the same groundwork levels. The Time Lords seemed to jump into throwing the Doctor to his death on several occasions..
    I don't really recall the Time Lords ever being truly happy to see the Doctor, even when
    Spoiler:
    the Doctor became President of Gallifrey by default (I think that happened during Tom Baker's reign)


    The Time Lords always seemed a bit off-ity and non-caring, unless their own life was in danger. It's always been the Doctor who has had the hearts to care about the rest of the universe, for which the Time Lords were overseers of. Occasionally, there have also been higher powers (beings) at work, even more powerful than the Time Lords..

    But as for the Time Lords.. they always seem to clash with the Doctor's way of thinking, and I doubt even if they return for a while (as in resetting / fixing whatever happened with the Time Wars), if they will ever be in complete agreement with the Doctor's ways... which when speculating how instrumental the Time Lords might be in fixing the Doctor's life at the end of EoT-Part 2, it might be more likely to find the Time Lords arguing over helping regenerate the Doctor, and us -- the audience-- seeing some other force step in and fix the Doctor so that he will transform into a new "self".
    But.. that's my own personal theory.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    But they elected themselves as overseers of the univese. No one wanted them in that role, that they imposed upon themselves, that strikes me as very arrogant and presumptuous..

    That makes them potential bad guys in my books. No wonder the Doctor ran from Galifrey.

  9. #9
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    If it'll be that the Time Lords do turn out to be bad guys come next season, I can't see how that is going to work. They are the masters of space and time, correct? That being the case, if they're going to hunt the Doctor next series, they'd essentially know where he is going to be, and when. He wont have time to stop off at random planets picking up companions and solving problems, cause the timelords will be right behind him.

    Depending upon how they return, I think, come the closure of the episode, the timelords will allow the Doctor to live (as he'll have regenerated) but they'll disown him, and will make it clear that he isn't welcome on Gallifrey, or wherever it is they're hiding now.

    It's Probin' Time!

  10. #10
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
    But they elected themselves as overseers of the univese. No one wanted them in that role, that they imposed upon themselves, that strikes me as very arrogant and presumptuous..

    That makes them potential bad guys in my books. No wonder the Doctor ran from Galifrey.
    Team America Gallifrey - World Universe Police?


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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dr. Who (End of Time One)

    Part two was better than part one. It was a real tear jerker
    gunna miss him

  12. #12
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    I'm dissapointed.

    There, I said it.

    Spoiler:

    For a start I think Wilf was handled terribly. He was set up to be an old soldier who was yet to fight his key battle, and then what was his role? To get trapped in a bloody cubicle and lead to the Doctor's death. And even the Doctor started slagging him off for that. Wilf should have played a major role in this, not get shafted as he did.

    Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.

    Honestly - I think they milked this massively. DT leaving is NOT the end of everything, he's no more special than any previous Doctor, we did NOT need a 'this is your life' style walk down memory lane. Furthermore, I think they cheaped the idea of regeneration by suggesting that the next doctor is not as much of the Doctor as the current Doctor is.

    I'm also not happy at all with the introduction of Matt Smith, he was written too similarly to DT in this scene, which I think damaged the moment considerably.

    I DID like the Master finally getting his own back, and that WAS good, but overall, I feel let down.

    Sure, DT had an emotional performance, but in my opinion, it was an unnecessary one.



    And sorry - MICKEY AND MARTHA?! What!?





    EDIT:

    Spoiler:

    Oh and RTD has obviously been watching Stargate - Now the Timelords want to ASCEND! Dear me. I somehow doubt 'the others' would be happy with that.


    Btw - was it just me, or did the Doctor call the Lord President 'Rassilon'?

    Last edited by Flyboy; January 1st, 2010 at 11:11 AM.


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  13. #13
    Captain Billz's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    OMFG!
    10th Doc goes back to the day before Rose meets the 9th Doctor!

    Was I the only one expecting Christopher Eccelston (9th Doctor) to show up when David Tennant (10th Doctor) was strugling to get back to the TARDIS and help him just after he sees pre-Doctor Rose?

    And we still don't know who The Woman was? I'm still inclined to think it was The Doctor's Mother. Also, after David was done regenerating, the TARDIS console started falling to bits. I hope they don't make the interior look cr*p in the next season.

    Oh, and Timothy Dalton was Lord President Rassilon according to one scene. Also, where did The Master go? We didn't see him die or dissapear in anyway?

    And was it just me, or was that the Resurrection Gauntlet from Torchwood that Rasslon was using?
    Teselecta: "Silence will fall when the question is asked."

    Doctor: "And what is the question?"

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    Doctor: " *Brainfart* ".


  14. #14
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    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    Spoiler:
    Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.
    Saying goodbye maybe? He knows that his time is up, wanted to do the rounds, have one last look at everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    Spoiler:
    And sorry - MICKEY AND MARTHA?! What!?
    Saw that one coming. It's been rumoured for a while, has it not?

    Was a good episode though, what a way for Tennant to go. Not so sure why the Tardis is falling apart though, the Doctor has regenerated before without destroying the Tardis.

    Also, in regards to the Timelords
    Spoiler:
    I believe that is well and truly the end of the Master too. If he's gone back to Gallifrey with the other Timelords (that woman was so the Doctors mother by the way).


    Goes without saying too, that we now know why the Doctor killed his own people. Even though I doubt very much they were all corrupt. I am suprised though that the Doctor didn't actually have anything to directly do with Donna. That seemed a bit of a miss. She seems to be remembering bits and pieces, yet nothing ever came of it.

    Also, a nice little problem here (depending how much you look into it).
    Spoiler:
    Rose saw the Doctor, who she'd later meet, but surely she'd have recognised him? Granted he was in the shadows, but I'm sure she'd have seen his face.
    Was nice to see all of the old cast too, a proper farewell, although I do wonder whether we'll see any of them again, being that the new Doctor is suppose to have his own show (so to speak) and is to be leaving everyone and everything else behind.

    I'm pretty sure I missed something, but this'll have to do for now.

    Edit: In regards to regeneration
    Spoiler:
    Has it suddenly changed? All past ones haven't been so... emotional. It was more like "I'm going to regenerate, but I'll be the same person, don't worry". This time, it was more like "I'm going to regenerate, but I'll be a whole new person, and my old self will die". What?

    It's Probin' Time!

  15. #15

    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    Man, that was terrible.

    Time Lords come back. Time Lords don't stay. Oh boy.

    The Master's impact on the world is literally hand-waved away.

    Wilf had no purpose other than bring about the Doctor's death. With some stupid plot point about a radiation chamber thing, and a lot of technobabble. Just seems too forced for me.

    The gun part was pointless. "Oh no, the Doctor's going to have to shoot someone!" and then he doesn't. That part didn't even make any sense to me.

    "Oh no he's going to shoot James Bond!" Wait a second. That wont help anything! It's the Master he's going to have to shoot if anything, stop leaping back and forth.

    And then he shoots the Crystal device, which a Sonic Screwdriver could have achieved anyway.

    And I agree with Flying Officer Bennett, Matt Smith's Doctor seemed too similar to Tennant's in the short segment he was in. It felt poor. Nothing against the actor, but he shouldn't be written to imitate Tennant.

    Donna was pretty pointless in this too. She did nothing. If you're going to show her, at least give her some small role to play.


    I enjoyed the Doctor/ Master conversation at the start though, with the Doctor still offering redemption and a chance to explore the Universe by his side.

    Over-all though, it was pretty cheesy. And not good Doctor Who cheesy, but cheap Sci-Fi Original Movie cheesy. I'm glad that RTD is leaving, I never really fancied his stories.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    what a load of crap.

    Sorry but RTD has really done it this time for me, I'll elaborate later, gonna go get drunk now.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    I dunno if Im happy or sad about that.... I was really looking forward to it...
    Spoiler:
    but the timelords were just sent off very easily... though I loved how it explained why the master is so drummed in the head.... The whole martha micky thing was like WTF?!... Possible something to bring into torchwood... and the thing with jack was hilarious... I loved that the lord president was rassilon

    And who was yer one like?! The time lord lady that wilf was seeing... the doctor recognised her.. He has mentioned that he's had family before.. a wife... children etc.. Maybe... or it could have been the rani? its hinted at that she and doctor had a previous relationship not to mention the timewar seems to have messed everyone up...

    Im not sure was I happy or sad with how the doctor died... the thing about the radiation and a cubicle was a bit stupid I thought..... but I really liked how he chose to die to save wilf...
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  18. #18
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    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    I loved it. The Doctor Should die saving a single person; not the whole universe, just one friend. I loved the little Cactus, I loved Verity Newman, I was happy to see Donna happy, I loved the WORST RESCUE EVER and I loved the explanation for the Master's madness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post

    Furthermore, what the bloody hell was with the Doctor visiting his most recent friends and seeing them alright? He's NEVER needed to do that before.
    True, but he never 'died' alone before. And he never seemed to fight the regeneration so hard; I think he was tring to have extra time as 'himself'. And there doesn't need to be a precedent - after all, each Doctor is a different person as much as he is the same.

    Furthermore, I think they cheaped the idea of regeneration by suggesting that the next doctor is not as much of the Doctor as the current Doctor is.
    Eh?
    Oh and RTD has obviously been watching Stargate - Now the Timelords want to ASCEND! Dear me. I somehow doubt 'the others' would be happy with that.


    Btw - was it just me, or did the Doctor call the Lord President 'Rassilon'?
    Its as likely that RTD read a '50s Asimov story called "the Last Question" or that he watched Babylon 5. There's nothing new under the sun

    And no, it wasnt just you.

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  19. #19
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: "End Of Time" random thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerilon View Post
    If it'll be that the Time Lords do turn out to be bad guys come next season, I can't see how that is going to work. They are the masters of space and time, correct? That being the case, if they're going to hunt the Doctor next series, they'd essentially know where he is going to be, and when.
    ummm... Doctors # 2 and # 3 era reboot??
    It worked then just fine..
    And I think Doctor # 4's era made some sort of compromise about how the whole Time Lord's were basically forced to begin appreciating the Doctor for rescuing them during some of the most impossible odds. It has happened before and might happen again.. just a *wild* thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerilon View Post
    He wont have time to stop off at random planets picking up companions and solving problems, cause the timelords will be right behind him.
    well that little *problem* of the Doctor being tracked down or hunted never stopped the companions from coming aboard..

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerilon View Post
    Depending upon how they return, I think, come the closure of the episode, the timelords will allow the Doctor to live (as he'll have regenerated) but they'll disown him, and will make it clear that he isn't welcome on Gallifrey, or wherever it is they're hiding now.
    Not sure if that will be a choice.. but the Time Lords have never really been on the Doctor's side of viewing the rest of the universe -- time and space wise. Besides, try to remember the Doctor's roots -- and from whence the TARDIS came from. The Doctor basically stole the TARDIS from Gallifrey. And actually, I'm not sure if stolen would be a correct term, even tho that is what the Doctor keeps saying.

    This particular TARDIS is a type 40 (type forte in some translations =).
    Before the series began, this specific TARDIS was originally sitting in a garbage dump already decommissioned and waiting for permanent disposal (destruction). It was abandoned in a sense, and the Doctor got curious, went inside and took off with it. Somehow, he ended up with the imprint of the operator assigned to that TARDIS, and the rest became history.

    So, ever since those fateful days from the very beginnings of the Doctor's journeys, he hasn't exactly been disowned, but was more of a fugitive --always on the run from his own people-- for being a thief. That essentially has always been the core roots of the DOCTOR WHO series.

    Naturally, he might not be welcomed back to Gallifrey with open arms, but someone or something -- somewhere in time and space has always been guarding over the Doctor and always bringing him into places where he's been needed the most. It's never been clear if the Time Lords were actually responsible or if the TARDIS itself was a sentient being and therefore guardian over Time and Space -- higher than the mere Time Lords of Gallifrey.

    It will be interesting to see how the stories pan out from here on in, with the Doctor fighting the Master or some other creature in Time and Space. I think when he attended the Academy and failed to graduate properly, he was unable to regenerate. But once he entered the TARDIS, the higher powers that be and have guarded over him, gave him the ability to become immortal to a point, by regeneration. Yes, it will be sad to see David Tennant's Doctor #10's cycle close, but this series has a way of being creative enough to find ways of keeping the Doctor alive, in whatever actor or appearance he has turned up into.

  20. #20
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: End of Time Part Two

    *Gropes for another tissue*

    what can I say,

    The conclusion of Part One wasn't as good as it could have been but after that, the Dr's 'death' was very well done.

    Hands up who didn't see the Deux Ex Machina coming

    The whole conclusion was a bit pants IMO

    But the whole Pre death/visiting companions/saying goodbye to Wilf was brilliant, fantastically acted by David Tennant and Bernard Cribbins.

    So we still haven't really got a conclusion to the Time War (See first comment)

    Didn't see it being Wilf that knocked four times.

    Ahhhh, Jack and Midshipman Frame got together (There's gonna be some angry Jack/Ianto shippers out there)

    I think I blubbed the most over Jessica Hynes character and Wilf's final goodbye

    So questions left over

    Was Timothy Dalton Rassilon?

    Was that female Timelord/Wilf's vision Romana?

    Mickey and Martha WTF??? I thought she married Tom, or was that an AU Mickey and Martha?

    I loved the Doctor giving Donna that lottery ticket and borrowing the money from Donna's Dad.

    All in all, it was a lot better than part one.

    Oh, one more thought, do you think anyone will show this to George Lucas? At least RTD admitted, kind of, that the battle sequence was based on Star Wars

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