Wray, Rush and Young - None are fit to lead

[SleepZone]

It may be obvious and I know its already noted that its the wrong people on the Destiny but I noticed Young, Wray and Rush are really not good leaders by themselves.

Wray - I found it kind of human and realistic that she can constantly be a critic to Young's leading, and keep mentioning the IOA and the people but when she's handed being a leader she's somewhat relunctant and is kind of passive. She seems to be better at finding flaws instead of giving advice or doing anything positive, though its a trait many have.

Rush - He clearly doesn't want to lead the entire ship or be in control, but rather wants freedom to work with the Destiny. However he is somewhat reckless as he tends to look at the greater goal rather then whats its going to take to attain the goal. Rush would be satisfied with a Pyrrhic victory because he looks at the end goal not the consequences. He's clearly not a coward as he attack Greer, and Young, and chose to remain on Destiny, Rush however favors seeing the end and hoping it benefits him, rather then being altruistic and getting set back.

Young - He has a somewhat heroic Leadership but its kind of reckless. He chooses to save and preserve as many as he can because he knows numbers are limited and life can't be wasted, but that also put many in danger. He is so focused on preservation that he may endanger the himself, if its a chance that he can save an extra few people. Young would likely choose keeping himself and Greer near a impending solar flare and extra few minutes if he could save Scott and Eli rather then leave through the Stargate and bring the people back their leader. Its morally correct but is bad as a leader because if he is to die or get stranded it'd send the ship into anarchy because there who be know leader, he is somewhat a Tragic Hero, or is headed there in my opinion.

I remember reading before on types of leadership but can't find it to elaborate more, but I'd like to hear others comments on how accurate this is, and how you guys believe Destiny should be lead.

Currently its being lead correctly in my opinion because Young is most fit to keep them alive as he's willing to do anything to keep every person alive.

[Daro]

It may be obvious and I know its already noted that its the wrong people on the Destiny but I noticed Young, Wray and Rush are really not good leaders by themselves.

Wray - I found it kind of human and realistic that she can constantly be a critic to Young's leading, and keep mentioning the IOA and the people but when she's handed being a leader she's somewhat relunctant and is kind of passive. She seems to be better at finding flaws instead of giving advice or doing anything positive, though its a trait many have.

Rush - He clearly doesn't want to lead the entire ship or be in control, but rather wants freedom to work with the Destiny. However he is somewhat reckless as he tends to look at the greater goal rather then whats its going to take to attain the goal. Rush would be satisfied with a Pyrrhic victory because he looks at the end goal not the consequences. He's clearly not a coward as he attack Greer, and Young, and chose to remain on Destiny, Rush however favors seeing the end and hoping it benefits him, rather then being altruistic and getting set back.

Young - He has a somewhat heroic Leadership but its kind of reckless. He chooses to save and preserve as many as he can because he knows numbers are limited and life can't be wasted, but that also put many in danger. He is so focused on preservation that he may endanger the himself, if its a chance that he can save an extra few people. Young would likely choose keeping himself and Greer near a impending solar flare and extra few minutes if he could save Scott and Eli rather then leave through the Stargate and bring the people back their leader. Its morally correct but is bad as a leader because if he is to die or get stranded it'd send the ship into anarchy because there who be know leader, he is somewhat a Tragic Hero, or is headed there in my opinion.

I remember reading before on types of leadership but can't find it to elaborate more, but I'd like to hear others comments on how accurate this is, and how you guys believe Destiny should be lead.

Currently its being lead correctly in my opinion because Young is most fit to keep them alive as he's willing to do anything to keep every person alive.

I think it's the general consensus that none of the three people we have as leaders on the ship are fit for that role. As you say, though, there aren't many options given yet. The three are better at causing problems for each other than almost anything else. Each have strengths. Wray may be a critic, but she is brave enough to speak up when things are going wrong. Often, she is the voice of the other people on the ship at times when Young and Rush need to be reminded that they aren't the only ones with opinions worth considering.

I don't think Rush throws life away wrecklessly. But he will sacrifice others in a bad enough situation, and almost every time I've seen him suggest or do this, he's been right - the life of one man is not worth saving if it means the entire crew might perish. And I don't think he's necessarily selfish. He, like Young, believes what he's doing is for the greater good. It's just that Rush's definition of the greater good is very different. His definition is far vaster in scope. He thinks the only person who is fit to lead because he's the only one who can make life and death choices. He would not sacrifice himself unless there was no other option because he realizes his own value. Rush is essential to the survival of those people on the ship. His scientific goal is, I think, discovering ascension for mankind. That's a goal with so much potential benefit and good that it is easy to see why he can be so incredibly ruthless at times.

Young would be the right persont to lead in this situation, if not for his willingness to gamble his life, and the lives of the crew, on desperate attempts to get home. And also, after what he's done in Justice to Rush (who might or might not have deserved it, but that's not the problem.) I don't think if he'd been thinking rationally, he would have left Rush. But that's the problem. Young is too unstable in his desperation to get home, and his emotions have gotten the better of him. A leader must employ logic and morality at the same time, but in a survival situation, morals may have to be completely ignored in order to ensure survival.

Whoever leads will have to find a way to work with Rush. Someone is going to have to outsmart him if they want to stop him. If there were a way Rush could get the people who don't want to be on board home, he'd do it, as long as he didn't think he was going to get forced back with them. Young is vital because he's the leader of the military. Wray may not be vital yet, but she has her place. Ulterior motives aside.


So right now, even though I sympathize with Rush's view the most, I don't think he or Young (certainly not Wray) should be in charge. Currently, Rush is out of the game, but we know that'll change. I guess the question is...what would the ideal leadership be in this situation? Must there be just one person in charge, or can a triumvirate of some sort be formed? If there has to be one person as the leader...what would that person be like, how would they handle Rush, Young, and Wray? They'd have to be quick on their toes if they wanted to take on these three dangerous, ambitious, and unpredictable people.

[Blackhole]

If I had to pick one person on the Destiny who has demonstrated the best leadership skills I would pick TJ. I was very impressed with how she handled the swarm crisis during “Water”. She sought Rush’s consul but didn’t let him push her around and she handled Greer very well. He is very protective of anyone under his command. When that soldier was badly injured he wanted revenge. TJ correctly surmised that the first soldier may have precipitated his attack by overreacting and shooting the swarm. If she hadn’t controlled Greer‘s aggressive tendencies and desire for revenge the situation would probably have escalated out of control. Coming up with the water barrel plan demonstrated thoughtfulness and quick thinking and facing the swarm alone and unarmed was very courageous. She exhibited a good balance between authority and respectfulness and seemed better at motivating cooperation as opposed to simply ordering people around.

Imo at times, Young has been heavy handed in his use of authority. His people skills don’t seem to be as good as TJ’s and he comes across as less friendly. It is too bad she is a lower rank than Young and under his command because I think she would make a much better leader than him.

I don’t know if it was the show’s intent to portray TJ as a better leader or if she just came across that way to me.

What do others think?

[PG15]

Well, in this case, TJ would be the best since she's a medic.

She will need to be able to command people around and make tough decisions, especially regarding issues of life and death. Most importantly, as a medic, she will need to deal with both civilians and military, making her a pretty good leader in the case where both parties are involved, as on the Destiny. All she needs right now is more experience, and she'd be an excellent leader.

Young is heavyhanded because he's probably used to dealing with the military exclusively.

[Daro]

I'd not really thought of TJ as a leader. I think, from what happens in Water, it might work out. The big problems are, as Blackhole noted, her lower rank. But also, her prior relationship with Young might complicate things. As will the perception of the civilians, who don't trust the military.
But maybe, as she is the person who will save their lives if they are injured, her background might be overlooked.

I could see Wray undermining TJ if she were leader, because she suspects TJ resigned before the mission because she was protecting someone. And Wray was right about that.

One thing though. She was against anyone going in and shutting the shuttle. I mean, that was the first few hours, and a gut reaction. I want to know if she is willing to make the life and death choices; she takes losing people very hard.

[spinny magee]

I quote something which has been said far too many times "These are the wrong people"

Put Greer in charge

[natyanayaki]

Let Chloe lead, she has a political science degree from Harvard, and she has political experience. And it would be interesting for the character, let Rush, Young and Wray be representative who advise Chloe.

I think TJ would be as weak and indecisive as a leader as Young is.

[Avenger]

Well, in this case, TJ would be the best since she's a medic.

She will need to be able to command people around and make tough decisions, especially regarding issues of life and death. Most importantly, as a medic, she will need to deal with both civilians and military, making her a pretty good leader in the case where both parties are involved, as on the Destiny. All she needs right now is more experience, and she'd be an excellent leader.

Young is heavyhanded because he's probably used to dealing with the military exclusively.

If she's in charge, that leaves no one to serve as a senior medical officer. She can't do both. I don't doubt that she would make a decent leader, but she's not in a position to do so.

[natyanayaki]

Why? During "Water" when did she demonstrate weakness or indecision or for that matter during any other episode?

She was in-confident, and it was apparent that she did not want that role. Nothing in water suggested to me that she'd make hard decisions. However, in Time, she wasted antibiotics without knowing if they were dealing with a bacterial infection, despite the fact that they were low on supplies. As stated earlier by someone else, as chief medical officer she probably shouldn't take the role of leader as well, and as an individual with a medical background and no significant political or commander-roles (and from the little we actually know of her), she'd probably try so hard to save everyone's life, no matter the risks, and end up destroying everyone on board.

[Blackhole]

Let Chloe lead, she has a political science degree from Harvard, and she has political experience. And it would be interesting for the character, let Rush, Young and Wray be representative who advise Chloe.

I think TJ would be as weak and indecisive as a leader as Young is.

Chloe is 23 years old with little if any leadership experience. Apart from her questioning during Justice when has she demonstrated any maturity or ability to take charge?

Why? During "Water" when did TJ demonstrate weakness or indecision or for that matter during any other episode?

[natyanayaki]

Chloe is 23 years old with little if any leadership experience. Apart from her questioning during Justice when has she demonstrated any maturity or ability to take charge?

Why? During "Water" when did TJ demonstrate weakness or indecision or for that matter during any other episode?

She hasn't demonstrated maturity; however, the writers have emphasized her degree in Political Science, and her experience based on the fact that she grew up in politics. She has for the most part been useless, and this would give her an avenue to grow, and become interesting.

It's not what TJ did, it's how she did it, which could easily have been a problem with the actor. Additionally, I don't think TJ could take that role, as the chief medical officer, and as an officer who would still (in terms of protocol) be under Young's command. Besides, TJ shouldn't focus on leading the Destiny, she should be using the stones for a practical purpose, to gain more medical knowledge.

[Blackhole]

She was in-confident, and it was apparent that she did not want that role. Nothing in water suggested to me that she'd make hard decisions. However, in Time, she wasted antibiotics without knowing if they were dealing with a bacterial infection, despite the fact that they were low on supplies. As stated earlier by someone else, as chief medical officer she probably shouldn't take the role of leader as well, and as an individual with a medical background and no significant political or commander-roles (and from the little we actually know of her), she'd probably try so hard to save everyone's life, no matter the risks, and end up destroying everyone on board.

I don’t understand what “in-confident” means.

The fact that she surmised:
1. The swarm was responsible for the water loss.
2. That it had been provoked by the first solider into attacking him.
3. She stopped Greer from attacking the swarm thereby preventing a likely escalation.
4. Came up with the plan to use a barrel filled with water to trap the swarm.
5. Faced the swarm alone and unarmed (at great personal risk to herself knowing they had nearly killed someone) and trapped the swarm inside.

You don’t consider any of her preceding actions to be suggestive of making hard decisions? Her quick thinking and decisive leadership led to the successful removal of the aliens from the Destiny. If they had remained their entire water supply would have been depleted and everyone would have died. Frankly, I don’t understand how her life and death decisions could have possibly been any harder?

You suggested that her decision to try antibiotics to try to save someone’s life was a waste because she had no way of knowing if the infection was bacterial or not. Given there are no current laboratory equipment on the Destiny to determine the nature of an infection, I ask you, how is she ever going to be able to be sure if an infection is bacterial or not?

You also said that her medical duties may make it difficult for her to assume a leadership role. How does that fact demonstrate evidence of weakness or indecision?

She is a lieutenant in the Air Force she has had political and command experience from day one. That is the nature of the military.

As a medical officer you suggest her compassion would take away from her ability to make hard decisions and render her a poor leader. Given how effectively she handled the crisis in “Water” I would disagree with you.

[Blackhole]

She hasn't demonstrated maturity; however, the writers have emphasized her degree in Political Science, and her experience based on the fact that she grew up in politics. She has for the most part been useless, and this would give her an avenue to grow, and become interesting.

It's not what TJ did, it's how she did it, which could easily have been a problem with the actor. Additionally, I don't think TJ could take that role, as the chief medical officer, and as an officer who would still (in terms of protocol) be under Young's command. Besides, TJ shouldn't focus on leading the Destiny, she should be using the stones for a practical purpose, to gain more medical knowledge.

I would agree with you that Chloe has the potential to be a good leader but she will need much more seasoning before she will be ready for that role.

I also agree that I think for TJ to assume the role of leader would be problematic for the reasons you indicated. The point I was making was that I thought TJ had demonstrated the best leaderships skills of anyone on board not that she would be able to take command.

[natyanayaki]

I would agree with you that Chloe has the potential to be a good leader but she will need much more seasoning before she will be ready for that role.

I also agree that I think for TJ to assume the role of leader would be problematic for the reasons you indicated. The point I was making was that I thought TJ had demonstrated the best leaderships skills of anyone on board not that she would be able to take command.

I don't want to argue, I was simply stating my opinion, and I understood what you were stating, it doesn't mean that it would be interesting to watch, or that everyone has to agree with what you're saying. In one episode she made some OK decisions; however, in various different episodes TJ has been shown to be troubled, she's indicated that she wasn't supposed to be there, as such there are indications that the stress would get to her, just like it has gotten to Young. Her drama with Young, her role as chief medical officer when she's probably questioning her abilities since she's only a medic, in combination with responsibility over the entire ship IMO would end in disaster. And while Chloe is very young, probably hasn't had much responsibility in her lifetime, and while I dislike her immensely and am completely bored with her, she has shown to be pretty level headed. And I don't think she's any less experienced than TJ. Plus, as a member of the military, TJ's loyalty will be to the other military personnel, and as an officer, I'm not entirely sure she'd be able to over-ride Young in matters unrelated to medicine.

Anyway, there really is no point in arguing opinions, especially now that new episodes aren't airing. You believe TJ would make a descent leader, I do not, let's agree to disagree.

[Blackhole]

I don't want to argue, I was simply stating my opinion, and I understood what you were stating, it doesn't mean that it would be interesting to watch, or that everyone has to agree with what you're saying. In one episode she made some OK decisions; however, in various different episodes TJ has been shown to be troubled, she's indicated that she wasn't supposed to be there, as such there are indications that the stress would get to her, just like it has gotten to Young. Her drama with Young, her role as chief medical officer when she's probably questioning her abilities since she's only a medic, in combination with responsibility over the entire ship IMO would end in disaster. And while Chloe is very young, probably hasn't had much responsibility in her lifetime, and while I dislike her immensely and am completely bored with her, she has shown to be pretty level headed. And I don't think she's any less experienced than TJ. Plus, as a member of the military, TJ's loyalty will be to the other military personnel, and as an officer, I'm not entirely sure she'd be able to over-ride Young in matters unrelated to medicine.

Anyway, there really is no point in arguing opinions, especially now that new episodes aren't airing. You believe TJ would make a descent leader, I do not, let's agree to disagree.

Fair enough.