Sam Carter /Jack O'Neill Ship Appreciation Thread 2.0

[hedwig]

I watched today Threads. It is just me who thinks that Jack was too much distant? I mean he never was the one who would show Sam feelings obviously, but come on, she comes to him, wants to say practically something like this- I am not going to merry Pete because I want only you, I love and need only you, come inside and make some babies...(or something similar ) and he is just standing there with his huh, it is perfect that you want to buy a house with Pete. I don't see any emotions in his reaction. Then later when Jacob is dying it is different but still, that scene at his house when she was feeling something special and he is just like "huh?"
When we think that before in The Lost city she wanted to tell him also something important and his reaction was I know. End of discussion. Yes again I know that it is prohibited but a small touch or something. We deserve a proper normal kiss that wouldn't be part of AU or time travel **** and so on. I am sorry I am a bit pissed but I will calm soon down

Well, to be fair, Kerry was inside his house at the moment, and he probably didn't know what to do or say with both women in his presence. Fortunately, later Kerry pointed out to him that he would be stupid to not do something to get himself and Sam together. I think he had buried his feelings for Sam so far down that he just didn't know how to act when she came to his house. Thus, the "always" when she thanked him or being there with him.

[AmFor]

Yes, I think it is like you write but still...I am not happy We should have just gotten a confirmation and all shippers would be happy. Honestly I am more pissed on writers of course

[Nefer]

Hello there! I‘m joining the ranks of those who got nostalgic recently and I‘m very glad to see the discussion is still going strong here! I’ve been reading fanfics on and off in the past years, but I’ve actually forgotten what a happy place this show and this ship are for me. I just started reading Sally Malcolm‘s Honor-books (my first fandemoniums), and maybe I’ll even start a rewatch as soon as I have access to my DVDs again. But I have to say, I am surprised how this stuff is burned into my brain lol, even though it’s been over 10 years! I‘ll try to contribute to the thread from now on!

[AmFor]

Hello there! I‘m joining the ranks of those who got nostalgic recently and I‘m very glad to see the discussion is still going strong here! I’ve been reading fanfics on and off in the past years, but I’ve actually forgotten what a happy place this show and this ship are for me. I just started reading Sally Malcolm‘s Honor-books (my first fandemoniums), and maybe I’ll even start a rewatch as soon as I have access to my DVDs again. But I have to say, I am surprised how this stuff is burned into my brain lol, even though it’s been over 10 years! I‘ll try to contribute to the thread from now on!

I totally understand your feelings. I saw this series 10 years ago and now I am doing a rewatch. Currently beginning of 9th season and I am into it even more than 10 years ago. It is nice to have another shipper back and yes,just do your rewatch

[Nefer]

Maybe it's just me but post S8 very little made sense to me in terms of these 2 characters career path. Jack who is an action man (but loves the quiet downtime in his home or cabin) that hates politics and politicians would never take a desk job in THE land of politicians known as Washington D.C.. I just don't ever see that happening. He would rather retire and become a civilian consultant or something. Sam's biggest asset was her brain yet they had her chose a military career path instead of a scientific one post S8. Leader of Atlantis or commander of the Hammond is so freaking pointless. More importantly, I can't see the Pentagon/Homeworld Security allowing that to happen. They need her smarts more than her military prowess. How many times were we hit over the head with her brain being a natural resource/treasure? Her heading up Area 51 made perfect sense to me. Tinkering with alien devices, reverse engineering technology or going to help out with major scientific problems on another planet or Atlantis or whatever. That's what she is all about.

I can't see a single Watsonian reason for these choices because it's completely OOC for me. Instead it seemed to be done for entirely Doylist reasons. Such as them wanting to keep the characters apart (preferably galaxies apart) to continue the stupidity of ambiguity. And to keep them on the shows (one permanently the other with guest appearances) they took the laziest way out in terms of writing by choosing paths for them that make no sense in-universe.

This is actually something that has been bugging me, too. Obviously, I understand all the "Doylist" reasons (lol for that reference, I like this metaphor), such as cast availability and wanting to keep Sam in the franchise after the end of SG-1 and all that. But from a completely plot level instinctual view point (and this is mostly due to my personal interpretation of Sam’s character), there is no way she wouldn’t stay at Area 51 to fiddle with technology, at least when it comes to permanent assignments. Purposefully putting science on the backburner, being separated from Jack, in order to do a job that could be done by someone else. And sharing a base with McKay to boot ... It just doesn't seem right, not for what she would want and not for the best use of her skills. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Sam and I have nothing against seeing more of her on Atlantis. But as you said, I'm pretty sure that could have been another way to explain her presence there like for a specific reason.

Jack's promotion makes more sense to me (just because they need someone with his expertise about the military dangers out there in DC, and there isn't really anyone else), but I am finding it hard to imagine that he is not seeing this as a chore.

What we could add to this list is that Daniel wasn't allowed to go to Atlantis that first time around. I mean, if anything ever was, this. was. his. jam! It's been a long time since I've seen the series, but I distinctly remember there being a scene in the Atlantis pilot where he is trying to talk Jack into letting him go, and he just forbids it. I remember thinking why the hell not?? He's not specifically needed on earth, he's lonely, he's perfect for the job, they will need him, and he really wants to go! Clearly, they didn't want to lose him from SG-1, but still ...


By the way I've started my rewatch yesterday. Watched the first half of the SG-1 pilot, and good grief, I remember every single line lol! I must have watched it so many times. It was the first DVD I ever bought and for some time it was the only one I had. Good times. My rewatch is going to be slow going because I don't have a lot of time, but I'll try to keep it up. Hoping for some more discussion on here.

[AmFor]

I am looking forward to your notes and comments.

[samfalstaff]

Hello! So glad people are talking about this show again or more importantly about S/J! I discovered Stargate about a year ago and have been slightly obsessed ever since. How are you handling Seasons 9 and 10? I started watching S9 and just couldn't get into it. I loved Ben Browder in Farscape but just couldn't really stomach him in Stargate. I've heard he gets better...

[samfalstaff]

Hello there! I‘m joining the ranks of those who got nostalgic recently and I‘m very glad to see the discussion is still going strong here! I’ve been reading fanfics on and off in the past years, but I’ve actually forgotten what a happy place this show and this ship are for me. I just started reading Sally Malcolm‘s Honor-books (my first fandemoniums), and maybe I’ll even start a rewatch as soon as I have access to my DVDs again. But I have to say, I am surprised how this stuff is burned into my brain lol, even though it’s been over 10 years! I‘ll try to contribute to the thread from now on!

I've heard good things about the Honor books. How are you liking them? Right now I'm reading Hostile Ground, the first part of the Apocalypse series, also by Malcolm. There's some really good S/J in there. Nothing overt but definitely S/J implications.

I've started SO MANY rewatches in the past few months. I have a rewatch going with my husband and one on my own and one with my parents. I also went back in this thread and read the comments on the previous rewatches. (Lots of downtime recently!) I agree with AmFor - I'd enjoy reading others comments and notes on another rewatch!

[Nefer]

I loved Ben Browder in Farscape but just couldn't really stomach him in Stargate. I've heard he gets better...

As far as I remember I really liked him as an actor and a character (hadn't seen Farscape then). I always thought he could have played Jack O'Neill in a parallel universe, and if Jack wasn't in the picture I could have seen myself shipping Sam and Cam (sorry for this blasphemy, but this is obviously a big what if, RDA & S/J 5ever). On the other hand it kind of felt like they were trying so hard to replace Jack instead of just focussing on the existing characters more and that made it kind of weird for me. But none of that was Ben Browder’s fault. I'm excited to see how I feel about this once I've reached this point in my rewatch (whenever that will be, there a looooot of episode).

I've heard good things about the Honor books. How are you liking them? Right now I'm reading Hostile Ground, the first part of the Apocalypse series, also by Malcolm. There's some really good S/J in there. Nothing overt but definitely S/J implications.

I'm about 1/4 into A Matter of Honour and I am really liking it. It feels like watching an episode. No real S/J so far, but I wasn't expecting that (I guess that's what her wonderful fanfics are for ...). The Apocalypse-series is definitely going to be next, especially after this endorsement.

[samfalstaff]

As far as I remember I really liked him as an actor and a character (hadn't seen Farscape then). I always thought he could have played Jack O'Neill in a parallel universe, and if Jack wasn't in the picture I could have seen myself shipping Sam and Cam (sorry for this blasphemy, but this is obviously a big what if, RDA & S/J 5ever). On the other hand it kind of felt like they were trying so hard to replace Jack instead of just focussing on the existing characters more and that made it kind of weird for me. But none of that was Ben Browder’s fault. I'm excited to see how I feel about this once I've reached this point in my rewatch (whenever that will be, there a looooot of episode).

Yes! I got that feeling as well.

I'm about 1/4 into A Matter of Honour and I am really liking it. It feels like watching an episode. No real S/J so far, but I wasn't expecting that (I guess that's what her wonderful fanfics are for ...). The Apocalypse-series is definitely going to be next, especially after this endorsement.

I read somewhere (probably on here) that as time progressed the fandemonium authors were given more latitude with S/J. Still no confirmation though.

[Nefer]

So, I finally started my rewatch with “Children of the Gods” and “The Enemy Within” , and I have a couple of thoughts and would be interested in yours. Sorry if this is just a do-over content wise, but better repetition than nothing I also apologise if this isn’t SUPER S/J-shipping related, but it does concern their relationship, and we always wear our super magnifying shipper goggles here, don’t we?

So, what do you guys think about S/J first meeting and their relationship in the pilot? (I hope this doesn’t open a can of worms, but I would be interested in your opinions). You know THAT scene in the briefing room. AT has said in several interviews that she finds this scene is awful/awkward (or something negative like that) and an indication that the writers hadn’t found her voice yet (sorry, I don’t remember which interviews). Plus, there’s the scene in Moebius were they make fun of it (“who would say something like that?”) Over the years I’ve seen a lot of apologetic reactions to it.

What do you think? Is it a good or a bad first scene together, and how do you think it impacted their relationship, if at all? And isn’t it super insubordinate for her to talk to him like this? But maybe that’s why he likes her immediately Sam actually has another early totally insubordinate moment in The Enemy Within when she says to Colonel! Kennedy: “I’m sorry, what was your point?”. Both of these feel kind of out of character with later Sam, but maybe I’m wrong about that. I will pay closer attention to how much of a goody-goody she actually is and if her sass has just slipped under my radar.


I also have a question about another scene: Right after they first arrive on Chulak, Sam, Jack and Kawalsky have the following exchange:

CARTER: I set up a line of claymores along that ridge at ten-meter intervals.
O'NEILL: Sound about right, Kawalsky?
KAWALSKY: Yeah, that'll work.

Both Jack and Kawalsky are kind of snickering here. What do you think is going on here exactly? Are they making fun of her eagerness? I’m not sure I understand the scene. Maybe not being a native speaker has something to do with it.




P.S. I only just took the time to read up on how the kudos system on this board works (better late than never) and I just want to apologise to anyone who has greened me in the past and I didn’t reciprocate or react. I … just didn’t get it.

[samfalstaff]

So, I finally started my rewatch with “Children of the Gods” and “The Enemy Within” , and I have a couple of thoughts and would be interested in yours. Sorry if this is just a do-over content wise, but better repetition than nothing I also apologise if this isn’t SUPER S/J-shipping related, but it does concern their relationship, and we always wear our super magnifying shipper goggles here, don’t we?

Great! Can't wait to read your comments! I commented inline and am about 75% sure it worked. Hopefully the quoting isn't all wonky.

So, what do you guys think about S/J first meeting and their relationship in the pilot? (I hope this doesn’t open a can of worms, but I would be interested in your opinions). You know THAT scene in the briefing room. AT has said in several interviews that she finds this scene is awful/awkward (or something negative like that) and an indication that the writers hadn’t found her voice yet (sorry, I don’t remember which interviews). Plus, there’s the scene in Moebius were they make fun of it (“who would say something like that?”) Over the years I’ve seen a lot of apologetic reactions to it.

Which version of COTG did you watch? There's the original one that has the elongated scene in the briefing room (and the nudity) and the edited one (with the shorter briefing room scene) that is on Amazon Prime. I agree with AT that the briefing room scene is super awkward especially when she starts talking about dolls and reproductive organs. I think overall AT didn't like the original character they had written for her. Originally they wanted her to play an officer with a chip on her shoulder about the male hegemony in the Air Force. AT put the kibosh on that pretty soon (definitely after Emancipation). So when AT talks about that briefing room scene, she might also be remembering the original character they had created for her. That said, I think some kind of out of the ordinary sparks-a-flying interaction between her and O'Neil was necessary to set up the relationship. That's why I prefer the shorter scene. You still get the sparky interaction between them, the awesome arm wrestle line, and Jack's look at the end.

What do you think? Is it a good or a bad first scene together, and how do you think it impacted their relationship, if at all? And isn’t it super insubordinate for her to talk to him like this? But maybe that’s why he likes her immediately Sam actually has another early totally insubordinate moment in The Enemy Within when she says to Colonel! Kennedy: “I’m sorry, what was your point?”. Both of these feel kind of out of character with later Sam, but maybe I’m wrong about that. I will pay closer attention to how much of a goody-goody she actually is and if her sass has just slipped under my radar.

Oh, I definitely think Jack remembered that briefing room scene for a LONG time. The look on his face after she offers to arm wrestle him shows it all. Her statements and attitude were very insubordinate and would not fly in real life. You're right - Carter did have quite a bit of sass to her in the initial episodes. I just chalked it up to the writers' original vision of her character.

I also have a question about another scene: Right after they first arrive on Chulak, Sam, Jack and Kawalsky have the following exchange:

CARTER: I set up a line of claymores along that ridge at ten-meter intervals.
O'NEILL: Sound about right, Kawalsky?
KAWALSKY: Yeah, that'll work.

Both Jack and Kawalsky are kind of snickering here. What do you think is going on here exactly? Are they making fun of her eagerness? I’m not sure I understand the scene. Maybe not being a native speaker has something to do with it.

When I first saw this scene, I also thought they were making fun of her eagerness. I wish I knew more about military strategy - maybe setting claymores 10 meters apart is overkill and they were laughing at that. Maybe O'Neil wanted Carter to be accepted by his men, so he deliberately made a point to Kawalsky about her competency. I'm not saying it was shippy, but O'Neil is experienced enough to know that some men might not want to serve with women. So he's pointing out her competency to Kawalsky. But I find that a bit of a stretch and agree that he's just teasing her.

P.S. I only just took the time to read up on how the kudos system on this board works (better late than never) and I just want to apologise to anyone who has greened me in the past and I didn’t reciprocate or react. I … just didn’t get it.

I know nothing about the green system and doubt that I am eligible for bestowing green. But I would give you green if I could!

[AmFor]

Soon will be that episode on TV, I have to look at it, because I remember nothing

[Nefer]

Which version of COTG did you watch? There's the original one that has the elongated scene in the briefing room (and the nudity) and the edited one (with the shorter briefing room scene) that is on Amazon Prime.

Oh, I wasn‘t aware that the scene in the briefing room is also longer, I only knew about the implantation nudity (I really don‘t mind nudity but that that was too gratuitous to be anything but objectifying and felt super out of place). So I watched the longer version. What exactly was cut from the briefing room scene?

I actually don't mind the longer scene at all. As for „chip on her shoulder", honestly, there is no way she has not been through some pretty awful sexist nonsense, performing this highly in two male-dominated fields (science and combat military), and looking the way she does to boot. Ferretti and Kowalsky’s retorts (through still very good-natured in comparison to what I could imagine she has encountered) to me are not just reactions to her coming on strong, it’s probably the kind of banter she is used to navigating all the time. I mean, if we go by realistic timeline, she must have been one of the first/few female pilots and that can’t have been all smooth sailing. In my mind, her "attack" tactic here is a realistic (if not entirely ideal) attempt of dealing with such a situation. Yes, she is coming on strong, in a way she never did again. But, she’s new to this command, has no idea what to expect from her new CO, and tries to immediately assert herself (as she knows she has to). She wouldn’t know Jack would would so open about her when she came into that briefing room. So, I actually really like the scene (minus the fact that it's super unrealistic lol).

I continued with „Emancipation“ and I’m really of two minds here. On the one hand I love feminist topics, and I did like that they had an episode where it mattered that she was woman and that negotiated some of these issues (it would probably have been the case more often, realistically, considered how patriarchal the universe seems to be). But the episode just did not age well at all. I find it very problematic. And Sam was so naive in it omg!

But, at least we do get some flirty S/J interaction out of it ("Samantha!") and what is probably Teal'c's best line ever: "What is an Oprah?".
I do love how Jack continues to be so supportive of her and the whole team from the start. Who wouldn‘t immediately have a crush on him?

[DAC]

I had quite contrary experience. Last week I saw on TV last episode. It was so sad. No RDA, no Jack and Sam, but more painful was, there was not any mention of Jack. Not a word. I almost cried.

Oh, I almost forgot. Does anyone know the name of the story in which Sam and Jack are forced to participate in an off-world marriage ritaul with a lot of phases and one of them is hunting. It was so romantic and hot and everything, but now I cant find it.

always