Discussion about Stargate and Bit Torrent.

[Giza1928]

Firstly I'd like to begin by saying this is not a thread to promote the use of bit torrent. And this is not a thread to post links to any Torrents.
This is however a thread to discuss the reality of Bit Torrent and how it relates to the Stargate Franchise.

I don't want to get banned and I am sure you don't either.

When listening to the Gateworld Podcast it has often been pointed out that Nielsen ratings are inaccurate until the DVR ratings are factored into the equation.

The reality of the situation is that these ratings are inaccurate until you factor in how much an episode is being downloaded.

If a lot of people are illegally downloading SGU then they should be included in ratings. And if not a lot of people are downloading SGU, then it is obviously not much of a threat. It seems whichever way you look at it Bit Torrent is not the enemy.

Imagine a world where you go to stargate.mgm and on the front page there is a link to the latest torrent for Stargate Universe. An official Tracker, that is controlled by Brad and Robert, and is also more reliable to the downloader.

This would encourage bit torrent users to come to the stargate website. It improves the accessibility of the show, and it would be a great PR model. I liken it to Radiohead's release of their In Rainbows album.

It was free to download off of their website, you could name your price. And then a few months later it was available in stores.

If an episodes isn't popular it loses seeds, and this will make other bit torrent users less likely to download it. Right or wrong, I think this should be discussed in a public forum.

[DigiFluid]

If a lot of people are illegally downloading SGU then they should be included in ratings. And if not a lot of people are downloading SGU, then it is obviously not much of a threat. It seems whichever way you look at it Bit Torrent is not the enemy.

I have to take issue with this.

Nielsen and ratings in general are not there to gauge the popularity of the show. Honestly, the networks don't give a rat's arse if tons and tons and tons of people love a show. Their interest in numbers, rather, has to do with advertising slots. The more popular a show is in ratings (as currently measured), the more people are seeing the ads which generate money for the networks running the shows. Downloads of the series have a very serious and marked effect on the future of a TV series.

At least, American ratings do. As so many people point out, Nielsen boxes are an American thing. Those of us living in other countries, no matter how large the audience, have near zero effect on Syfy's decision whether to order more episodes of a given TV series or to just cancel it.

I therefore don't particularly care if non-Americans download the show. And I don't want anyone to think that has anything to do with an anti-American bias or anything of the sort. Quite the contrary. In the case of downloading shows produced by American networks, you guys are the ones who dictate whether or not a show goes on.

[Giza1928]

Yeah I agree completely with you DigiFluid, I don't live in the US. But hypothetically say someone downloaded the latest episode of SGU, and it was very slow because no-one was seeding.

Is it better for the franchise if the person seeds and makes the download quicker for everyone else. There by making it more a pleasant experience for newcomers to the show.

Or is it better for the franchise to not seed at all and try to make the torrent die? There by sending a message that illegally downloading a show is the wrong thing to do?

[Oka]

Translation: "I don't live in the U.S., my bittorent downloads are always so slow, please make the show a free download it's a great idea from a business standpoint too, I swear!!!"

[DigiFluid]

Indeed. I thought this was a discussion about the pros and cons of illegitimacy or official sanction of downloading, not "my internet is slow."

[Giza1928]

Yeah very funny, but you are missing the point entirely Oka.
This isn't about me, this is about the show suffering by ignoring a medium that is actually really popular. The new SG-1 and Atlantis movies aren't coming out because of a dying DVD market. I would argue a bit torrent release could be more successful than a DVD release.

[Giza1928]

I also never once said my internet was slow, this isn't about me.

This is on the scale of how successful iTunes was by recognizing the shift in technology. From an optical medium, to a digital medium. Ignoring the shift could leave the franchise in dust.

[Jeff O'Connor]

I actually do take my stance as an American citizen quite seriously in relation to the franchise's survival. All the same, though, I haven't been near a Nielsen box in a very, very long time. Even living here in America, very few of us really dictate whether or not the shows are going to stay on the air.

So I do my part and purchase products related to the franchise when I can.

[MediaSavant]

The reality of the situation is that these ratings are inaccurate until you factor in how much an episode is being downloaded.

If a lot of people are illegally downloading SGU then they should be included in ratings. And if not a lot of people are downloading SGU, then it is obviously not much of a threat. It seems whichever way you look at it Bit Torrent is not the enemy.

The ultimate purpose of the ratings is for Syfy or any other network to gauge the value of advertising the show. The advertising in the show in each country is intended for viewers in that country. Each country has a ratings system to count this.

In the U.S., the ratings system even attempts to count how many people are exposed to the ads. With BitTorrent, there's no way to count this or even count what country you are from.

MGM makes money from selling license to show SGU to stations around the world. Stations around the world sell ads in the show for their country and that's what puts a value on the show.

It's not called "illegal" for nothing. Neither MGM or the stations who buy the show from MGM can monetize a BitTorrent viewer. That's why they don't count.

[The Prophet]

Thing is, if people have the option to download any show, then surely the ratings would decrease with a somewhat similar amount across the board?

So, surely SGU would still have the same ratio of ratings compared to other more or less popular shows?

[Giza1928]

Perhaps Bit Torrent isn't the answer, but it is not the enemy. There was a recent study done in the UK which determined that Bit Torrent users buy more music than those who abstain from Illegal downloading.

http://boingboing.net/2009/11/01/hea...al-downlo.html

I know that my illegal downloading is what made me buy my boxsets of SG-1 and Atlantis. If I only relied on the Television I wouldn't have had as deep an understanding and interest in the show because of it's shoddy airing dates and episode order.

Perhaps Free downloads of shows encourages people to buy DVD's just as it has been proven that it encourages people to buy CD's.

Yes bit torrent downloads should not be included in ratings I concede that.
But if you can sell bottled water you can make money off what is otherwise free using the correct marketing strategies. If enough people go to a single website to get their Stargate fix, MGM would ultimately get an exorbitant increase in advertising revenue.

All of this could be achieved while providing free access internationally to the entertainment. And it has been shown that this would encourage DVD sales not discourage them.

Advertisements on the internet are aimed at an international audience, therefore making the 'American Only Advertisements argument' a less persuasive argument.

Maybe this all sounds very naive, but so does ignoring the bit torrent phenomenon and the international viewers.

[Colonel Sharp]

TV shows come from money
Money comes from ads
torrent files do not have ads

The point isn't to have a lot of people watch the show, the point is to have a lot of people watch the ads. And that's why ratings numbers are important.

As for the P2P music study that just came out, I don't think you can apply it to TV shows for a number of non-scientific, opinion based points:

1. DVDs cost more than CDs. I think the average consumer is much more willing to throw away 10/15 bucks on a CD they like after they torrent a few songs, than a person is willing to pay $30/40/50/60 for 1 season of a TV show.

2. I feel that while people (illegally) download individual songs, most people will (illegally) download an entire season of TV.

Finally, on a different note, I don't seem to understand why people look down upon torrenting (which, besides the legal matter, is only inherently bad because you're not watching the ads), and not Tivoing something (where you watch the program but not the ads). The only difference seems to be that 1. You buy a tivo box. 2. One is legal.

Also: bunch of us seem to be talking about torrenting in specific relation to SGU over here:http://forum.gateworld.net/showthrea...t=71621&page=3

[Giza1928]

TV shows come from money
Money comes from ads
torrent files do not have ads

The point isn't to have a lot of people watch the show, the point is to have a lot of people watch the ads. And that's why ratings numbers are important.

As for the P2P music study that just came out, I don't think you can apply it to TV shows for a number of non-scientific, opinion based points:

Yes but Torrent sites have ads.

2. I feel that while people (illegally) download individual songs, most people will (illegally) download an entire season of TV.

It is much easier to download an entire album or discography than it is to download an episode or a season of a show.

1.Albums come out all in one hit/Seasons come out episodicly
2.Filesizes for music files are tiny compared to video files. And are easier to download.
3.Music is quicker to digest and easier to acquire.

A lot of record stores don't even stock singles anymore, people just prefer to buy the entire album physically. And keep their singles digitally. That shows a complete shift in the industry. In the 50's all you could buy was singles.


Thanks for the tip about the other thread.

[katjoy]

if they wanted to monitor who and where people downloading the bit torrent are from they could create a log in system whereby a user has to fill in details like which country they are from, age (under 18, 18-25, 25-35, etc) and gender... this would give them a demographic of who is watching, while making shows available to fans who's countries dont make stargate readily available...

and if they are worried about downloading and keeping the torrents leading to decreases in dvd sales, isnt it possible to make the downloads active for x days only after download... im sure a friend in the states has mentioned that they have to watch itunes movies in a week or they no longer work...

this is of course if mgm even considers bit torrents on their official site a viable option... since it affects the tv industry and thus advertising slots to make the show legally available online...

[Wayston]

Yes but Torrent sites have ads.

But this money does not go to the makers of the content, it goes to the "parasites".

And over the years many economic sectors and individual companies have tried making a decent buck out of free content coupled with online advertising, the vast majority of these have failed. For most it is simply not a viable revenue stream.