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  1. #21
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Teddybrown View Post
    I dont get the reference lol
    You never watched Short Circuit then?

  2. #22
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Thing is, Adelaide's suicide doesnt prevent the altered future, it adds to it. Her grand-daughter will think she was a coward who ran away from life rather than face the reality she lived in. Adelaide lost her purpose in life and felt trapped. The Doctor had damned her.

    As a Red Dwarf fan, half of me wanted The Valeyar...erm...Doctor to simply say "Smeg" when Adelaide shot herself, then walk into the TARDIS, not a care in the world, he would rationalize that this wouldnt be the first attempt to change history with his newly realized freedom.

    "The laws of time are mine to command...and THEY WILL OBEY ME"

    The tease of the four knocks with only three was wonderful, and played again with audiences assuming one thing over another.

    Barry Letts got a winner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregorius View Post
    The special was okay, at least it was better than Planet of the Dead and that idiotic Cybermen thing some time ago.
    Which wasnt idiotic in the slightest.

  3. #23
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Here's a thought, concerning the last 2 eps
    Spoiler:
    Do you think the Doctor will be forced to regenerate for his crimes, like Doctor Number 2 was, I know the Ood said he would die but then Donna 'died' sort of

  4. #24
    Colonel Admiral Mappalazarou's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Reefgirl View Post
    Here's a thought, concerning the last 2 eps
    Spoiler:
    Do you think the Doctor will be forced to regenerate for his crimes, like Doctor Number 2 was, I know the Ood said he would die but then Donna 'died' sort of
    Spoiler:
    But by who, the Time Lords are long gone and it was they who forced No. 2 to change. The Ood maybe? I can't see them being that powerful however.
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  5. #25
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Mappalazarou View Post
    Spoiler:
    But by who, the Time Lords are long gone and it was they who forced No. 2 to change. The Ood maybe? I can't see them being that powerful however.
    Spoiler:
    Depends on who Timothy Dalton's character turns out to be, he had the look of a high ranking Gallifreyan to me. Maybe The Master

  6. #26
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Reefgirl View Post
    You never watched Short Circuit then?
    Nah lol

    To Zarius
    I kinda got pulled in by the four knocks in the trailer, but i didnt think the Master would appear in this ep. I loled when there was only three.

    To the topic of the last two episodes
    Spoiler:
    Apparently the timelords may be in it so if they are, they may force him to regenerate, but i think its unlikely they will be in it
    Looks like a good Christmas Special and looking forward to seeing it and the Master again

  7. #27
    Lieutenant Colonel Kady's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    I wasn't happy with the ending. I though the row (its still a row, even though there is no shouting) he has with woman at the end was very OOC for David Tennants Doctor. Too dark for me. I think he's better when he speaks really fast and is annoying perky and bouncey!!

    In fact, my dad, who i forced to watched with me and HATES Dr. Who (he called it "dodgy" before ), actually said about the row, "That's a bit nasty!!"

    After that bit i don't know what happen in those last 2-3 minutes as i missed it as my dad kept interupting me, to tell ME what happened and what he said, despite that fact that it had the friking subtitles!! And with my dad, you can't exactly say, "SHUT UP!!! I'M TRYING TO WATCH IT!!!"

    All i saw next was the teaser trailer for the next episode (OMG!!) and i COMPLETELY missed the ending!! AGGHHHHH!!! So now, i'm gonna have to find a transcript or someone to explain the end to me!! I'm not happy!! Maybe someone here can tell me what happen. (in spoilers obviously Please?)
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  8. #28
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Spoiler:
    From what i remember of the ending, we see the woman go into her house n draw a gun out, and then we see the Doctor walk to the Tardis and he turns when she shoots herself in the house. All you see is a flash. Then the Doctor realises what hes done and he sees Oad (Think thats wrong) Sigma and sigma just stands there and the Doctor says 'What have i done? Is this it? My death? Is it time'? Then Sigma disappears. Then he goes into the Tardis and just stands there and you hear the bell thing, and he suddenly just says No! and activates the Tardis
    Last edited by Teddybrown; November 15th, 2009 at 02:30 PM.

  9. #29
    Lieutenant Colonel Kady's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Teddybrown View Post
    Spoiler:
    From what i remember of the ending, we see the woman go into her house n draw a gun out, and then we see the Doctor walk to the Tardis and he turns when she shoots herself in the house. All you see is a flash. Then the Doctor realises what hes done and he sees Oad (Think thats wrong) Sigma and sigma just stands there and the Doctor says 'What have i done? Is this it? My death? Is it time'? Then Sigma disappears. Then he goes into the Tardis and just stands there and you hear the bell thing, and he suddenly just says No! and activates the Tardis
    Thanks for explaining it for me. I understand it now, sort of!!

    BTW: Anyone else getting cheesed off at the Terminator pop-ups? Its really slowing my laptop down everytime it appears!! Grr!!
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  10. #30
    Captain beale947's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    That last bit with the the The Time Lord Victorious part is MEANT to be OOC for the doctor. He finally realised that he is the master of time since he is the only Time Lord left. It definatly proves that Time Lords with power like that really are vengeful Demi Gods.

    I also think that its a set up in allowing the Doctor to fight the Master on even terms. Both Time Lords, knowing they both have the right to whatever they hell they want, no matter what. But you can't blame the Doctor for snapping after hearing everyone dieing on the base, then the rocket exploding stranding them. HE's lost everyone he cares about and even people who can't save eg. Pompeii and this time he realised "No More". He's turned into the Master.

    Doctor: "But your Changing History!"
    Master: "I'm a Timelord. I have that right."

    However he still has a conscience, and i'm glad that his ego and sence of ominipotence was shot down by Adliey shooting herself and thus proving that time cannot be messed around it without making it slightly worse in some way. Maybe thats while time lords are banned from interferring. Fixed points will always happen even if you interfere, all you will do is end up making it worse for you at the end.
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  11. #31
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Kady View Post
    Thanks for explaining it for me. I understand it now, sort of!!

    BTW: Anyone else getting cheesed off at the Terminator pop-ups? Its really slowing my laptop down everytime it appears!! Grr!!
    Thats ok, and yes, the Terminator pop ups are annoying

    And to beale947
    It was like the Doctor was out of control (is that what OOC is?) and he is realising the power he has, but he comes to his senses when the woman shoots herself because he realises what he has done and what the consequences may be. Also when he sees Ood Sigma, he definately realises what he has done and he thinks he will be punished for it.

    That is the difference between the Master and the Doctor. The Master doesnt really care that hes changing the timeline or about the consequences whereas the Doctor does

  12. #32
    Captain huntress's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Mixed feelings about this one....
    A story about a doomed Mars colony and an event that the doctor can't and won't change and him stuck in the middle. "Fires of Pompeii" anyone? Yes and it is even mentioned but Pompeii was better, because the doctor was so passive in this one. Fixed point in history in all that. He just looked on, very sorrowful and tried to get away himself. There was quite a bit of pathos and a story that didn't quite deserve that name. It had hints of the X-Files and I would have loved if they had gone into that direction but in the end it was all a bit meh. We never saw what was really going on there and in the end it didn't really matter.

    Now to the more interesting bit: the fact that the doctor is badly loosing it. We always saw little glimpses of it and they were frightening, but now he has reached the breaking point and this time there is no one there for him. No Rose, no Martha, no Donna. The doctor we saw at the end in the final bit scared me badly. Timelord Victorious...oh doctor. This could have gone into a really, great and heartbreaking direction but unfortunately the whole story development went to a screeching halt and made a U-Turn when the doctor sees that Ood (WTF?) and becomes afraid of dying. The doctor has never before been afraid of dying, because he always knew that he could simply regenerate but here - he was afraid which makes little sense. He was always comfortable with the fact that he won't live forever and always had a strong dislike for anyone who craved immortality, so why should he be afraid now? It would have been so much better if the doctor had looked at the house, shrugged and kept on walking...TBC :sigh:

    Kudos to David Tennant and Lindsay Duncan because they really got the most out of the weak story. It really helps to have some excellent actors around, also the music by Murray Gold especially in the second half blew me away. The very last scene with the contra tenor singing the song of the doctor.....wow. The teaser for the finale made me happy though it held no surprises. Donna, Wilf + Master (who was very blond) = WIN

    Story: **
    Acting: *****
    Music: ****

    Overall: *** 1/2 due to the weak story
    He's like fire, ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun.
    He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe.
    And he's wonderful.

  13. #33
    Captain huntress's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarius View Post

    As a Red Dwarf fan, half of me wanted The Valeyar...erm...Doctor to simply say "Smeg" when Adelaide shot herself, then walk into the TARDIS, not a care in the world, he would rationalize that this wouldnt be the first attempt to change history with his newly realized freedom.
    That was EXACTLY what I had hoped would happen but it didn't
    He's like fire, ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun.
    He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe.
    And he's wonderful.

  14. #34
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by huntress View Post
    Mixed feelings about this one....
    A story about a doomed Mars colony and an event that the doctor can't and won't change and him stuck in the middle. "Fires of Pompeii" anyone? Yes and it is even mentioned but Pompeii was better, because the doctor was so passive in this one. Fixed point in history in all that. He just looked on, very sorrowful and tried to get away himself. There was quite a bit of pathos and a story that didn't quite deserve that name. It had hints of the X-Files and I would have loved if they had gone into that direction but in the end it was all a bit meh. We never saw what was really going on there and in the end it didn't really matter.

    Now to the more interesting bit: the fact that the doctor is badly loosing it. We always saw little glimpses of it and they were frightening, but now he has reached the breaking point and this time there is no one there for him. No Rose, no Martha, no Donna. The doctor we saw at the end in the final bit scared me badly. Timelord Victorious...oh doctor. This could have gone into a really, great and heartbreaking direction but unfortunately the whole story development went to a screeching halt and made a U-Turn when the doctor sees that Ood (WTF?) and becomes afraid of dying. The doctor has never before been afraid of dying, because he always knew that he could simply regenerate but here - he was afraid which makes little sense. He was always comfortable with the fact that he won't live forever and always had a strong dislike for anyone who craved immortality, so why should he be afraid now? It would have been so much better if the doctor had looked at the house, shrugged and kept on walking...TBC :sigh:

    Kudos to David Tennant and Lindsay Duncan because they really got the most out of the weak story. It really helps to have some excellent actors around, also the music by Murray Gold especially in the second half blew me away. The very last scene with the contra tenor singing the song of the doctor.....wow. The teaser for the finale made me happy though it held no surprises. Donna, Wilf + Master (who was very blond) = WIN

    Story: **
    Acting: *****
    Music: ****

    Overall: *** 1/2 due to the weak story
    I agree with you in the fact that it was a bit like Fires Of Pompeii because of the whole fixed point in time and the fact that even though he saw people dying and had Donna begging him to go back and help them, he only saved four people, but here he actually changed the timeline by saving these 3 people, but this time he made the choice to do it, even without anyone begging him. He also realises he has the power to change time if he wanted to because there was no one left to punish him.

    On your point about the Doctor being scared of death, after his little tyrade about being the victorious timelord and that he could create his own laws in time (I have to agree with you that the Doctors attitude was rather scary then) and after the woman shot herself, he realised what he had done and the consequences it could have in the world, and he probably saw how mad he was going, and when he saw Ood Sigma, it dawned on him how bad what he had done was, and he believed he was going to be punished for it and that is why he seemed scared off his death because he thought that would be his punishment. But when he realised it wasnt, he decided to do something about it.

    I agree with you about the Christmas Special though in that it looks to be very good and I am also looking forward to seeing Donna, Wilf and the Master back.
    Spoiler:
    We also apparently see Rose, but only in flashbacks


    Also, who else thought twice before turning on a tap after this episode? lol
    Last edited by Teddybrown; November 15th, 2009 at 03:57 PM.

  15. #35
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by huntress View Post

    The doctor has never before been afraid of dying, because he always knew that he could simply regenerate but here - he was afraid which makes little sense. He was always comfortable with the fact that he won't live forever and always had a strong dislike for anyone who craved immortality, so why should he be afraid now? It would have been so much better if the doctor had looked at the house, shrugged and kept on walking...TBC :sigh:
    Yes the Doctor has never been afraid of dying before, but then he knows now that he is running out of regenerations, so he knows that his time as an entity is coming to an end, and of course he is scared.
    People saying that the end of WoM was OOC I think are wrong, the Doctor has always had a dark side to him since Hartnell, and to be fair even Tennant has shown glimpses of his dark side in the past again in the aforementioned fires of pompeii.
    But I am of the opinon that Ood Sigma didn't make him realize what he had done, he had a moment of self doubt, but the whole "NO!" at the end makes me believe that he went back to being darker and more determined to change certain fixed points.
    We know the time war is a fixed point but Dalek Caan changed that when he became more than a dalek, why not the Doctor as well.
    I can't remember who said that maybe the Doctor is forced to regenerate to pay for his crimes by the timelords, well maybe he ventures to stop the timewar and the destruction of his people and the timelords punish him for that.
    Either way I enjoyed The Waters of Mars, it was much more enjoyable than Planet of the Dead of the Christmas special from last year which were both very lucklustre.

  16. #36
    Major General Reefgirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Kady View Post
    BTW: Anyone else getting cheesed off at the Terminator pop-ups? Its really slowing my laptop down everytime it appears!! Grr!!
    Me, everytime I roll my mouse to turn the browser off or go to the browser bar it pop's up, ****ing annoying

  17. #37
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Reefgirl View Post
    Me, everytime I roll my mouse to turn the browser off or go to the browser bar it pop's up, ****ing annoying
    pop up blocker anyone.

  18. #38
    Colonel Kidwizz's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Wow... i thought it was an EPIC episode. I loved that ending, it shows that all time lords have that within them, it just took ahwile for the dr to snap.

  19. #39
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    To be honest, the first 45 minutes of this episode seemed a waste. We was never told why the Doctor even went to Mars in the first place, he just turned up there, not knowing the date or anything. It was only the last 15 minutes that we actually got something decent out of it, that being, a darker Doctor.

    Also, in regards to more timelords in End of Time, I think not. If there were other timelords alive, surely they would have stepped in on Mars to preserve the 'locked moment'. That is the job of a timelord is it not?

    It's Probin' Time!

  20. #40
    Captain huntress's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Waters of Mars

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerilon View Post

    Also, in regards to more timelords in End of Time, I think not. If there were other timelords alive, surely they would have stepped in on Mars to preserve the 'locked moment'. That is the job of a timelord is it not?
    No. Not necessarily. I hope the whole Ood incident was not enough to scare the doctor off but that he will become truly megalomaniac and whatever he does then, in his "I couldn't care less about the consequences and laws of time" mood triggers of the return of the timelords.
    He's like fire, ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun.
    He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe.
    And he's wonderful.

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