Point of origin? Manual dialing gate? Destiny's FTL drive?

[Jsmith45]

Why was the point of origin symbol unique to Earth present on the gate used to reach Destiny? Point of origin symbols have long been established as unique to each planet, and thus the point of origin symbol of one planet will not be found on the gate of another.

Unfortunately the only valid explanation is that the writers screwed up here, as they have many times in the past. They also messed up the chevron order for 8+ digit dialing, which goes the three down the right, the three up the left, then the lower right, the lower left (for 9 digit dialing only) and finally the top chevron. This order was clearly established in the Episode that first introduced 9 digit dialing. I still have the screen-cap that shows this ordering sitting on my desktop, from when I produced it over a year ago for another Gateworld thread.

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I would ask why that gate was being manually dialed (with the rotations, and all) rather than being fast dialed, but the answer here is reasonably obvious to me. The DHD software is not designed to handle 9 digit dialing. Therefore like on earth, we were interfacing our computers directly with the gate control crystals. We understand very little of the gate's inner workings, including large chunks of the control protocols. We don't know how to send fast dial commands to the gate, and have not been able to reverse engineer them from the DHD.

The method of sending a 9 symbol address to the gate must be a fairly obvious extension of how to send 7 and 8 digit addresses to the gate.

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What symbol set is used on the gate on Destiny. Since it frequently changes galaxys, it could not be using one specific to each galaxy, so I guess it must use a generic set.

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Why is the range limited well beyond a normal gate, which can dial any address in a given galaxy without issue.

In Milky Way and Pegasus, any gate can dial any other in-galaxy gate.

I will grant that with extra power they could also dial gates of other galaxies.

So why the limit on the Destiny gate?

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It was mentioned that the FTL drive of destiny was not Hyperspace based. What is it then?

It sounds like Destiny's drive is still much slower then the Asgard Intergalactic hyperdrives, which were able to move from the Asgard galaxy of Ida to Earth almost instantaneously, perhaps even faster than gate travel. Earths best hyper-drives could take days to cross a galaxy, and weeks to travel between galaxies.

It sounds like Destiny's FTL drive may be even slower then Earth's drives. In fact the speed sounds similar to the Wraith's quite slow hyperdrives.

[jkiller]

I seem to recall the city of Atlantis traveling through a open wormhole or whatever in the last ep, I cant believe that they wouldn't be able to use a smaller ship to rendezvous with the destiny and commence a rescue via this method. Also, how many galaxies away is the Destiny, if it is traveling slow and visiting all the gates dropped by the seeder, shouldnt they be able to plot out how long a reliable earth FTL ship would take, at the approximate rate of 2 weeks per galaxy?

[escyos]

Why was the point of origin symbol unique to Earth present on the gate used to reach Destiny? Point of origin symbols have long been established as unique to each planet, and thus the point of origin symbol of one planet will not be found on the gate of another.

Unfortunately the only valid explanation is that the writers screwed up here, as they have many times in the past. They also messed up the chevron order for 8+ digit dialing, which goes the three down the right, the three up the left, then the lower right, the lower left (for 9 digit dialing only) and finally the top chevron. This order was clearly established in the Episode that first introduced 9 digit dialing. I still have the screen-cap that shows this ordering sitting on my desktop, from when I produced it over a year ago for another Gateworld thread.

-------------------------------------

I would ask why that gate was being manually dialed (with the rotations, and all) rather than being fast dialed, but the answer here is reasonably obvious to me. The DHD software is not designed to handle 9 digit dialing. Therefore like on earth, we were interfacing our computers directly with the gate control crystals. We understand very little of the gate's inner workings, including large chunks of the control protocols. We don't know how to send fast dial commands to the gate, and have not been able to reverse engineer them from the DHD.

The method of sending a 9 symbol address to the gate must be a fairly obvious extension of how to send 7 and 8 digit addresses to the gate.

-------------------------------------

What symbol set is used on the gate on Destiny. Since it frequently changes galaxys, it could not be using one specific to each galaxy, so I guess it must use a generic set.

--------------------------------------

Why is the range limited well beyond a normal gate, which can dial any address in a given galaxy without issue.

In Milky Way and Pegasus, any gate can dial any other in-galaxy gate.

I will grant that with extra power they could also dial gates of other galaxies.

So why the limit on the Destiny gate?

-------------------------------------

It was mentioned that the FTL drive of destiny was not Hyperspace based. What is it then?

It sounds like Destiny's drive is still much slower then the Asgard Intergalactic hyperdrives, which were able to move from the Asgard galaxy of Ida to Earth almost instantaneously, perhaps even faster than gate travel. Earths best hyper-drives could take days to cross a galaxy, and weeks to travel between galaxies.

It sounds like Destiny's FTL drive may be even slower then Earth's drives. In fact the speed sounds similar to the Wraith's quite slow hyperdrives.

yes.
no.
no.
yes.
yes.
and no.


moving on.....

i think the symbols dont nessecarily correlate to star constellations, maybe they are numbers or correlative points assigned when the destiny arrives.

the destiny gate is a PROTOTYPE, it was one of the first gates build, therfore less range.

i think the FTL drive is probably pretty fast, if the destiny jumps between galaxies during the season, i dont think that the drive would be so slow that it would take long to get there.

also when was it shown that the asgard hyperdrives could travel that fast, i remember in Prometheus, they were towed back 1200 light years in a few seconds, which is fairly fast considering it takes a 304 about 1 min to travel 115 light years (approx)

[K^2]

The Earth POO was not on the gate. It was dialed by the dialing computer. When you interface with the system directly, you can send through whichever POO that you want. It's only used as identification, anyways. Earth used a gate with a different POO for a while, and there were no problems with that.

Destiny does not travel through hyperspace, so yes, it's speed is much lower. On the plus side, once you are going FTL, you only need sublights to keep it going FTL, so the power requirement is reduced dramatically. Most likely part of the reason for that particular mode of transit.

[Darynlxm]

Why was the point of origin symbol unique to Earth present on the gate used to reach Destiny? Point of origin symbols have long been established as unique to each planet, and thus the point of origin symbol of one planet will not be found on the gate of another.

Unfortunately the only valid explanation is that the writers screwed up here, as they have many times in the past. They also messed up the chevron order for 8+ digit dialing, which goes the three down the right, the three up the left, then the lower right, the lower left (for 9 digit dialing only) and finally the top chevron. This order was clearly established in the Episode that first introduced 9 digit dialing. I still have the screen-cap that shows this ordering sitting on my desktop, from when I produced it over a year ago for another Gateworld thread.

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As stated in the episode itself, this gate address was meant to be dialed from Earth, much like the Atlantis stargate was meant to.

If you rewatch the episode there is a part where Rush and Eli are talking about the adress and power (during the evac scene); heres the transcript.

WALLACE: OK, so what if Earth is supposed to be the Point of Origin?

RILEY: Chevron two locked.

RUSH: The only viable power source was here –- light years away.

WALLACE: What if that doesn't matter? What-what if ... what if it's the only combination that'll work, like a code?

RILEY: Chevron three locked.

RUSH: A code?

WALLACE: Yeah!

my theory here is that the reason the Earth symbol showed up in that scene is because they tricked the stargate into thinking that it was the Earth gate itself.

We know from a few episodes of SG1 and SGA that we know how to make changes to the stargates programming.
SG1 - Red Sky (I think thats the title); sam overrides the safety mechanism on the stargate to allow them to travel to another planet, sending the wormhole through the sun, nearly killing the inhabitants.

SG1 - Avenger; a program is written into the stargates programs to scramble the gate addresses of G'ould (is that correct?) worlds, limiting them to ships.

SGA / SG1 - the Mckay Carter intergalactic bridge, each of the 30 some odd gates are reprogrammed to forward the matterstream to the next gate, eventually arriving at the Midway station.

So realistically, this would make the most sense to me.

I would ask why that gate was being manually dialed (with the rotations, and all) rather than being fast dialed, but the answer here is reasonably obvious to me. The DHD software is not designed to handle 9 digit dialing. Therefore like on earth, we were interfacing our computers directly with the gate control crystals. We understand very little of the gate's inner workings, including large chunks of the control protocols. We don't know how to send fast dial commands to the gate, and have not been able to reverse engineer them from the DHD.

The method of sending a 9 symbol address to the gate must be a fairly obvious extension of how to send 7 and 8 digit addresses to the gate.

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I would agree that the DHD is most likely not designed to be used for 9 chevron usage, however, I think that it has become standard policy for SGC offworld bases to use computers rather than the DHD, most likely for security.

They were also conducting research and probably wanted access to the dialing program within the DHD, as well as many other fictional reason that could be brought up.

What symbol set is used on the gate on Destiny. Since it frequently changes galaxys, it could not be using one specific to each galaxy, so I guess it must use a generic set.

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The symbol set used on the destiny is an ancient, ancient form of language. Insteal of constellations, they are the names of constellations, I think. I would have to see if I could find the gateworld post regarding that... someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Why is the range limited well beyond a normal gate, which can dial any address in a given galaxy without issue.

In Milky Way and Pegasus, any gate can dial any other in-galaxy gate.

I will grant that with extra power they could also dial gates of other galaxies.

So why the limit on the Destiny gate?

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This was actually explained as far back as... the episode 2001. Gates that do not have DHDs have a limited range compared to other gates in the galaxy.

Now, forgive me, I dont remember the explaination as to why the Earth gate is different, but I would have to assume it is becuase of our dialing program created to interface with the gate itself.

the Destiny gates dont have DHDs (the planet-side ones) as far as we are lead to believe, im pretty sure the Kinos are meant to be the DHD at this stage, these are also old gate designs, and may not have been capable of the same range as the Milkyway gates.

It was mentioned that the FTL drive of destiny was not Hyperspace based. What is it then?

It sounds like Destiny's drive is still much slower then the Asgard Intergalactic hyperdrives, which were able to move from the Asgard galaxy of Ida to Earth almost instantaneously, perhaps even faster than gate travel. Earths best hyper-drives could take days to cross a galaxy, and weeks to travel between galaxies.

It sounds like Destiny's FTL drive may be even slower then Earth's drives. In fact the speed sounds similar to the Wraith's quite slow hyperdrives.

we dont know much about that yet, all we know is that it is FTL without being hyperspace.

for this reason, Im unsure where you came to the conclusion that it was slower. I dont remember that being mentioned...

for arguments sake, we could say that it is FASTER than the Asgard drives, however for technobabble reasons or radiation or time dialation effects, etc, the technology was abandoned for hyperspace travel... we will just have to watch and see.

[K^2]

We know that it is slower by taking into account the distance from Earth and time in transit. Hyperdrive could have gotten Destiny that far a LOT faster.

[bfldworker]

I said this in a previous thread about the FTL drive on Destiny.

If they aren't traveling in Hyperspace then it must be something like how a Warp Drive works in Startrek. Surround the ship in a warp bubble/field, keeping space in the bubble/field "normal" and shrink space before the ship and expand it in the back of the ship.

[Darynlxm]

my only issue with your reasoning, K^2, is that we dont know the exact date the Destiny was launched, nor do we really know how far the Destiny is from Earth.

It is just my personal opinion that we (I) do not know enough about the the method of travel to believe it is slower than hyperspace.

But I digress. Its just an opinion

[Encoder]

Why was the point of origin symbol unique to Earth present on the gate used to reach Destiny? Point of origin symbols have long been established as unique to each planet, and thus the point of origin symbol of one planet will not be found on the gate of another.

Definitely think it has to do with the "Code" that Eli proposed. Perhaps it was meant as a single guaranteed way for the network to track this one particular node, sorta like an IP address?

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What symbol set is used on the gate on Destiny. Since it frequently changes galaxys, it could not be using one specific to each galaxy, so I guess it must use a generic set.

My best guess would be that they are numerical values rather than constellations as constellations would be different from galaxy to galaxy (even from POV within a galaxy) so the only true way to keep track of a coordinate system is with the use of numbers.

-------------------------------------

It was mentioned that the FTL drive of destiny was not Hyperspace based. What is it then?

It sounds like Destiny's drive is still much slower then the Asgard Intergalactic hyperdrives, which were able to move from the Asgard galaxy of Ida to Earth almost instantaneously, perhaps even faster than gate travel. Earths best hyper-drives could take days to cross a galaxy, and weeks to travel between galaxies.

It sounds like Destiny's FTL drive may be even slower then Earth's drives. In fact the speed sounds similar to the Wraith's quite slow hyperdrives.

I agree that the FTL would travel at a different speed but only because it's travelling through a different medium (ie. real space versus subspace).

Using the sublights to continually keep it in FTL or another method to continually keep FTL established would probably be a great idea as the power requirements (relatively speaking) would be dramatially less than keeping a ship in hyperspace for any length of time.

Considering the distance Destiny has to travel, maintaining a viable power source would kinda keep it as a necessity.

[Atlanis]

escyos just to let you know, that only Atlantis' gate can dial earth because the Pegasus DHD's (apart form Atlantis') does not have the eighth control crystal required to dial earth and the only way for a pegasus gate without the eighth control crystal to dail earth would have been through the gate bridge but it is of course abandoned since midway was blown sky high and while I'm sure they could rig up a makeshift Wormhole drive they would need the navagation data to find Destany but all of that is stored on Destany's computer it may not be possable to get it to earth without a full Aincent long range comunacations tearmanal cause that earth based version we seen Rush using may not have that ability it could be a laptop version of the Aincent's comunacation tearmanal (the aincent tearmanal begin a desktop pc) if you know what i mean

[Kidwizz]

We know that it is slower by taking into account the distance from Earth and time in transit. Hyperdrive could have gotten Destiny that far a LOT faster.

I disagree... Your only thinking of FAST hyperspace... In early SG1, teal'c said that the hyperdrive was hella slow... This ship is over 10,000 years old... so... stio comparing it to things like the asgard/earth hyperdrives.

EDIT: Atlanis, ever hear of a thing called a fullstop? ;P

[akren]

Why was the point of origin symbol unique to Earth present on the gate used to reach Destiny? Point of origin symbols have long been established as unique to each planet, and thus the point of origin symbol of one planet will not be found on the gate of another.

Unfortunately the only valid explanation is that the writers screwed up here, as they have many times in the past. They also messed up the chevron order for 8+ digit dialing, which goes the three down the right, the three up the left, then the lower right, the lower left (for 9 digit dialing only) and finally the top chevron. This order was clearly established in the Episode that first introduced 9 digit dialing. I still have the screen-cap that shows this ordering sitting on my desktop, from when I produced it over a year ago for another Gateworld thread.

-------------------------------------

I would ask why that gate was being manually dialed (with the rotations, and all) rather than being fast dialed, but the answer here is reasonably obvious to me. The DHD software is not designed to handle 9 digit dialing. Therefore like on earth, we were interfacing our computers directly with the gate control crystals. We understand very little of the gate's inner workings, including large chunks of the control protocols. We don't know how to send fast dial commands to the gate, and have not been able to reverse engineer them from the DHD.

The method of sending a 9 symbol address to the gate must be a fairly obvious extension of how to send 7 and 8 digit addresses to the gate.

-------------------------------------

What symbol set is used on the gate on Destiny. Since it frequently changes galaxys, it could not be using one specific to each galaxy, so I guess it must use a generic set.

--------------------------------------

Why is the range limited well beyond a normal gate, which can dial any address in a given galaxy without issue.

In Milky Way and Pegasus, any gate can dial any other in-galaxy gate.

I will grant that with extra power they could also dial gates of other galaxies.

So why the limit on the Destiny gate?

-------------------------------------

It was mentioned that the FTL drive of destiny was not Hyperspace based. What is it then?

It sounds like Destiny's drive is still much slower then the Asgard Intergalactic hyperdrives, which were able to move from the Asgard galaxy of Ida to Earth almost instantaneously, perhaps even faster than gate travel. Earths best hyper-drives could take days to cross a galaxy, and weeks to travel between galaxies.

It sounds like Destiny's FTL drive may be even slower then Earth's drives. In fact the speed sounds similar to the Wraith's quite slow hyperdrives.

Point of Origin symbol as Earth (being like a code) could be explained by the use of the laptop with a modified dialing program interfacing the DHD & overriding normal controls; allowing them to lock Earth's PoO as the 9th chevron on a DHD which is not located on Earth.

I believe that the Destiny Stargate & the Stargates manufactured by the Seeder Ships are a prototype, or pre-cursor gate, to the Milkyway & Pegasus models (I believe this is stated somewhere in J.M.'s blog). They only have 36 symbols (confirmed in Air, part 2 as being cannon) on the gate (as opposed to 39, as established in the movie/SG-1/SGA) & have a limited range (again this last part is stated in J.M.'s blog I believe).

The explaination you gave about the symbols being generic is probably right, as it is mentioned somewhere in J.M.'s blog that the symbols on the Destiny gate are the Ancient's names for the stars.

I don't know about manual dialing, all the gates I have seen in the pilot of Air, parts 1 & 2 were dialed using DHD's (Destiny) or interface (dialing) programs on laptops hooked up to a MW DHD (Icarus base).

I don't know if the Destiny gate could be manually dialed like the MW models can (Pegasus models apparently can't because their 'digital'). Same goes for gates placed on planets by Seeder ships. We'll have to wait & see later on in the series for more info on this; if TPTB ever give it to us.

As for Destiny's FTL drive - where they go faster than light but NOT through hyperspace - I suspect it was a pre-cursor to the Ancient's hyperdrives they used on their Aura-class ships & city ships. Maybe the what the FTL drive works has something to do with it's on-going mission to explore the galaxies seeded with Stargates by the Seeder Ships, as maybe it lasts longer due to the length of time it has been out there; as we know hyperdrives do occasionally need to be maintained; like all technology (I wouldn't be surprised if the FTL drive has a spaz & fails in an up-coming episode; considering how the ship is falling apart & all ).

I guess we will have to wait to & see how TPTB reveal more answers to us over the course of the Seaosn 1/the series; which means we'll all have to watch it!

[fwupow]

In the Star Trek franchise, the writers were all over the place with the actual velocity of a Warp Factor. There was one general formula for TOS and another for TNG. On top of that they couldn't even keep it straight within a single series. You'd hear talk of Warp Factor 14 one day and then they'd turn around and say that Warp Factor 10 was infinite speed and that any object traveling at Warp 10 would exist at every point in space concurrently.

The point is, although some of us would appreciate the writers/producers adhering to pre-established canon, that's something I doubt any TV show has achieved.

If you're hoping that all techno babble about gate workings is going to agree, you'll soon come to disappointment.

[abuch]

So, sorry if my estimates are wrong, I can't remember the exact figures.

But, assuming the distance to the Pegasus galaxy is the same as the distance to Andromeda, since Pegasus is a dwarf galaxy of Andromeda, then the distance is about 2.57 million light years. It's stated in the show that the ship is 2 billion light years from Earth

The figures I'm unsure of are how quickly the daedalus class ships can travel to pegasus. I believe it's 3-4 weeks, in which case it would take 45-60 years for a ship to reach the destiny. With a zpm, I believe the time reduces to about 3 days, which still translates to about 6 or 7 years of travel.

Of course the destiny has been in space much longer than that, which means it's far slower than Earth ships, or hasn't traveled anywhere near a straight line. If it has traveled in a straight line, then it's thousands of times slower than earth ships.

[K^2]

I disagree... Your only thinking of FAST hyperspace... In early SG1, teal'c said that the hyperdrive was hella slow... This ship is over 10,000 years old... so... stio comparing it to things like the asgard/earth hyperdrives.

EDIT: Atlanis, ever hear of a thing called a fullstop? ;P

OP compared it specifically to Asgard Intergalactic Drive. There can be no argument on which is faster.

And considering the fact that Destiny would have been launched after Ancients became intergalactic travelers, I doubt that they didn't have something faster either.