Moebius, Part 2 (820)

[lsd]

ummm about the fish did u guys SEE the fish??¿¿¿¿ because I cant tell (my t.v. has bad quality) because if u didn’t see the fish jack could just be kidding to try to cover up the fact that there are no fish (I like it when there are no fish hehe~~)

[Albion]

Read some of the other posts now. Provoking a few more random thoughts:

Things I'm wondering about are what Jack meant when he said to Carter in the SGC: "You've got some packing to do.", maybe she's going on the Daedalus?

I presume he meant packing to go to the cabin and fish. That's what makes most sense to me, considering that the scene immediately after is of them fishing at the cabin.

but all the shippers looked for was one kiss between our sam and jack. just one, maybe in the lab? AU sam and jack was nice, but still a brush off. shippers not happy

Please – if this is your opinion as a shipper that's fine, but don't presume to speak for all of us! This shipper was very, very happy. I've never wanted a resolution to our Sam and Jack's relationship on screen, so I never looked for that kiss between them either. Using the alternates instead was the perfect solution for this shipper. Gave me some very cute S/J moments, while not spoiling the real relationship for me.

a possible explanation for the fish in the pond is that after seeing the tape Jack decided to buy some fish to put in the pond.

Whether there are fish in the pond or not doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me – I'm with Jack, 'Close enough' and I never got the impression that huge, major changes had been made to our timeline – quite the opposite. I think Jack's 'close enough' speaks to the fact that there hasn't been. Seem logical enough to me anyway. It's just not a big issue for me. But I like this explanation anyway. Sounds like something Jack would do. LOL.

Not even going to get into the whole time paradoxes thing. I learned long ago that I lose the will to live shortly thereafter with this kind of plot, so I'm perfectly happy to just go with the flow and enjoy the episode as it unfurls without thinking too much. <g> I personally don't think there's any doubt that the team at the end are our SG1, the clues are there for me, so I'm happy enough to presume that all's well that end's well and we ended up more or less where we began.

And I've just been reminded by another poster of another moment that had me ROTFLing. Daniel's bemused, "What's with the....?" as he mimics Jack's silent hand commands.


Albion (who should go to bed now, seeing as it's 2.30 am, but has the urge to go watch this again...)

[DarkQuee1]

The more I think about it the more I have to believe that the SG-1 we saw in the last two scenes are 'our' SG-1.

In the first loop they got something wrong, very slightly wrong, and it altered the timeline to a small degree - probably nothing changed between when Ra left with the gate and when the Langfords went digging in the 1920s. And then fromm the '20s there woul dhave been small changes rippling from everyone who 'should have been' involved with the Big Round Weird Artifact, until the '90s when the SGC 'should have' happenned.

All that came from just one event - the invisible PJ being spotted.

So what about the great big rebelion Daniel led at the end? People and Jaffa would have died, been injured, been in different places and led different sorts of lives as a direct result of that; and the genetic repercussions alone would mean that almost the entire world would have been peopled pretty differently by now. No way could Daniel's rebellion possibly succeed in restoring the timeline.

So the only way that the events we saw could possibly have led to the penultimate scene is if the Rebellion that Daniel spoke of in the movie was *always* kickstarted by him and SG-1. Daniel-in-the-past was just doing what had 'always' been done by him and the Alt-Teal'c, Alt-Jack and Alt-Sam.

Where the whole thing came from though, since in the end 'our' timeline is as it is without any of them recalling any of this, is just... a wrinkle in time. Just a funny little bubble of weirdness that floated into our continuum, threatened to bugger stuff up until a beautiful moebius loop righted everything, and then floated away leaving everything unchanged but for the fortuitous appearance of a ZPM.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I might agree with you, since I tend to subscribe to the "you can't change history" approach to time travel (since your events are already accounted for), except that that doesn't seem to be the time travel approach favored by the people writing the show. They are taking the approach that you can change history. MOre, they seem to be taking the approach that you create multiverses by these actions--*and* the multiverse created remains "alive" even if you take steps to try to reverse things. That's why

Spoiler:

the Weir who went back 10,000 years didn't disappear the moment that the future changed, that is, Atlantis rose and no one drowned. If she didn't exist in a separate and now-fully existing timeline/multiverse, then the rising of Atlantis would have meant that she never went back in time and that would have caused the elderly Weir to not exist.

Since that is the case, there is no way to ever arrive back at exactly the same timeline (possibly if the AU team had gone back and *stopped* the original SG-1 from ever goiing back in the first place, but that's about it). Once SG-1 went back in time, you now have their effects on the multiverse, plus the effects of the AU team, which didn't exist until the time travel, plus the effects of "our" Daniel, who stays in the past. All of this has caused yet another timeline/multiverse to split off. It looks like ours? Luck of the draw.

And while it may look like ours, we only saw three minutes of the particular reality they are in at the end, so we don't really know if there are other differences than simply that Jack's lake now has fish (and, no, he *didn't* go out and buy any).

After all, it *can't* be "our" team going on to a new future, when "our" Daniel, like Sam Beckett, never came home! He stayed, lived out the rest of his life and died 5,000 years ago. (BTW, did it strike you that Daniel didn't seem particularly upset about the loss of his teammates and friends?)


I can't help but feel that it is more than a little slap at the show's fans: we got involved in the characters we've known for 8 years, and now they're gone. Just like that, with no goodbye and with no grand exit--it happens offscreen, after all. Why should we invest anything in the characters next season?


J.

[Madeleine]

After all, it *can't* be "our" team going on to a new future, when "our" Daniel, like Sam Beckett, never came home! He stayed, lived out the rest of his life and died 5,000 years ago. (BTW, did it strike you that Daniel didn't seem particularly upset about the loss of his teammates and friends?)

I think it was 'our' team, exactly the same but with just two weeks missing. I really do think that everything happenned the same up to the point at which they found the ZPM in the final loop, and they still went fishing, so to me it's them. Although the people who went into the past are also and equally 'our' team. (I expect Daniel did all his Getting Upset at the loss of his team-mates a couple of years earlier, when they first died.)

I can't help but feel that it is more than a little slap at the show's fans: we got involved in the characters we've known for 8 years, and now they're gone. Just like that, with no goodbye and with no grand exit--it happens offscreen, after all. Why should we invest anything in the characters next season?

I totally understand what you mean, which is why the fish so bothered me at first. I freely admit to 'fanwanking' over this whole thing. I'm lucky like this; I can often believe whatever I choose to believe about a plot point that bothers me. But I know that without the fanwanking I'd probably be feeling the same as you right now.

[scsscs]

I liked this episode, but there was one thing that bugged me. Does anyone else think the idea of implanting a symbiote into a prisoner to gain information is an idea that should have been used before in the show? I mean, why spend days/months/etc. torturing someone when you can just implant them. For example, in season six's Abyss, Baal could have just implanted Jack to learn what he knew and saved himself some time. I guess torture just makes for better TV.

[Klems]

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. I know. If you don't want to hear me whine, don't read below. Fair warning.

I waited 6 months for that?

I was not going to post anything on Moebius Part 1 because I wanted to see if Part 2 could bring it up. Obvously I was wrong. The producers could have done so much with this episode, it is a shame it was wasted. I was expecting this to be a sort of miniseries on its own. I was really geared up to see the rebellion and Ra getting is butt kicked off Earth. I mean what stopped him from coming back and destroying everything from orbit? He had to be pretty freaked out in order not to come back. Like what was said before, seeing some of the rebellion is something that was severely missing. There was still alot of stuff left out. In my opinion this should have been like 4 episodes long or longer.

I was really let down by this one. "The Lost City" was so much better. Hell, the Atlantis finale was leaps and bounds better than these two.

My suggestion: For the love of the franchise don't have S9. I would much rather see 3-4 Stargate miniseries per year rather than another season if it looks like S8. (Ok, I take that back for the most part the Reckoning/Threads arc owned). This year RDA "might" still be there because of a heavily reduced film schedule. The quality would be much better because they would have more money to spend it on better effects and such.

I know S9 won't kill the franchise, hell it might even improve, but what I am wondering is if it will even be recognizeable with all the "changes" that are supposed to take place.

[Mio]

Not the greatest SG1 Episode. However, It did have it's moments, and overall, It was good.


I loved the fish.


Uhm. What else?

Sam: "I can fix that..."

[Buzz Lightyear]

And Daniel died again

Daniel is starting to resemble Kenny from South Park.

"Oh no! They killed Daniel!"

[retardboy]

Daniel is starting to resemble Kenny from South Park.

"Oh no! They killed Daniel!"

So at the end they went fishing and it was 2 weeks earlier, but my question is, is Jacob still dead? Jack said you have some packing to do and so that means she just saw her new house. At the same time in the old timeline, Jacob told her he was dying... she then visited him and stuff, but in this episode, she just went fishing... So does that mean Jacob isn't dead or dying?

[Buzz Lightyear]

The more I think about it the more I have to believe that the SG-1 we saw in the last two scenes are 'our' SG-1.

So what about the great big rebelion Daniel led at the end? People and Jaffa would have died, been injured, been in different places and led different sorts of lives as a direct result of that; and the genetic repercussions alone would mean that almost the entire world would have been peopled pretty differently by now. No way could Daniel's rebellion possibly succeed in restoring the timeline.

So the only way that the events we saw could possibly have led to the penultimate scene is if the Rebellion that Daniel spoke of in the movie was *always* kickstarted by him and SG-1. Daniel-in-the-past was just doing what had 'always' been done by him and the Alt-Teal'c, Alt-Jack and Alt-Sam.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Hey, best analysis/theory yet.

I like it cuz your explanation doesn't make my head explode, unlike some of the others.

[Buzz Lightyear]

If you just shut off your brain it's not too bad

Actually, I think you hit the nail on the head. Once I forgot about trying to overthink the time travel paradox (thanks to Madeleine's analysis), I was able to clear my head, and I think I'll enjoy it more on a second viewing.

[ElanaM]

So at the end they went fishing and it was 2 weeks earlier, but my question is, is Jacob still dead? Jack said you have some packing to do and so that means she just saw her new house. At the same time in the old timeline, Jacob told her he was dying... she then visited him and stuff, but in this episode, she just went fishing... So does that mean Jacob isn't dead or dying?

Best guess is that the scene in the lab occurs after Jacob's death and presumably his funeral, destruction of Anubis and dumping of Pete. His reference to her packing is in relation to going to the cabin (also possible nod to change in their 'personal circumstances'. The house Pete bought is a non-issue. We do not know how long it was between the above events and when they went fishing in Threads but I would have assumed it was probably a few days after the scene where Daniel descends in the buff. Consequently, given the events that had occurred, especially to Sam and Daniel it was an opportunity for the 4 of them to relax, recharge and get more intimate with each other (that cabin did not look like it had more than 2 bedrooms, so some 'sharing' would have occurred). Ultimately, Pete is history and Jacob is dead (unfortunately).

[9-Chevron]

This episode sucked

Moebius definition doesnt fit what actually happens .

[hibernate]

I liked the concept of Moebius, but I feel like it was rushed and many scenes left out. I was hoping to see more action in Egypt, instead its left to our imagination.

I had this feeling of "rushed" with the last few episodes, feels like they were trying to cram too much story content into too little time. Moebius could of easily been a 3 part story, same with Reckoning.

[sshspooky]

I liked the concept of Moebius, but I feel like it was rushed and many scenes left out. I was hoping to see more action in Egypt, instead its left to our imagination.

I had this feeling of "rushed" with the last few episodes, feels like they were trying to cram too much story content into too little time. Moebius could of easily been a 3 part story, same with Reckoning.

Moebius could have been a 3-pat story, but I like how they didn't show us. Think what the outcry would have been if they produced a poor rebellion fighting sequence that didn't meet up to anyone's expectations?

the simple fact is that the mystery of what happened in Egypt is still a mystery. all we know now is that sg-1 were involved.