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  1. #81
    Staff Sergeant Nurgle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    While I enjoyed this ep, there's one thing I don't get. If the stones only worked when Jack/Joe were in proximity to them, then how did Joe know about Anubis? Somehow, I doubt Jack had it in his pocket when he went to Taonas, or when he was frozen....

  2. #82
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana_Jeanne
    Okaaay. I just finished watching this and I'm afraid I have absolutely nothing good to say about it all.

    Jack's been having visions for 7 years about a barber in Indiana and yet he not only never said anything, but he didn't recognise his 'vision' when it showed up in his kitchen with a toy gun???

    Someone said somewhere: either ship or get off the pot. The writers are playing games with Jack and Sam, and it's really getting old. Something Brad Wright promised was resolved and done with in D&C has turned stagnant and smelly. I don't care how they finish it, I wish they'd just do it, so we can get back to stories about the Stargate and the team, WHOEVER they end up being at this point, going through it. And leave the love lives of everyone out of the show!

    Daniel talks too fast and seems to have acquired a strange habit of jerking and twitching. He's also turning into a sarcastic mini-jack and that's not a Daniel I recognise.

    I don't llike episodes centering on guest characters, even if it is a clip show---especially if it's a clip show. I could care less about Joe and his family.

    So Joe now has the ancient gene, too. Wow. Something that started out as mystical and totally awesome back in Fifth Race, Maternal Instinct and Meridian is now just a silly, convenient plot device. What a shame.

    2 out of 10 only because Daniel was actually in this one.

    When you send me my red squares, at least sign your name.

    Dana Jeanne
    Completely agree with everything you said. This episode was a horrible piece of crap.

    As clip shows go, I'd say it was better than say, Politics, but that's it. Disclosure is still my favourite there because that actually had important plot points in it! As opposed to this which just has some guy (who I didn't even like) going around, acting like an idiot. I was bored after 10 minutes.

    Season 7 was a ridiculous joke, and S8 started the same. The last 5-6 episodes though have been quite good (excluding Prometheus Unbound with Claudia Black: another awful character that TPTB have stupidly made sex-obsessed (in a VERY VERY childish and immature way), what is this The OC?

    Luckily the remaining episodes of the season look to be quite good, so fingers crossed.

    Everyone keeps moaning about Daniel's hair 'not looking right' in the flashback scene... erm, what about Jack's GREY hair????

    I'll say it again, the whole 'Jack's been having visions for 7 years' made this already bad episode even worse.

    PLEASE PLEASE LET SG-1 FINISH AT SEASON 9!!!!... While it has an ounce of quality left in it!!! I really dread to think what Season 9 is going to be like with little Jack, no Sam for a bit, Daniel aka Jack-Lite. Ben Browder (they should have brought back Jonas), and that horrible character Vala, no Hammond and no Janet.

  3. #83
    Lieutenant Colonel Ugly Pig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    It's not confusing, it's complex!

    PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
    of 'Citizen Joe'

    Hm. I guess the writers decided to combine this year's clip show with this year's "humor" episode. And it works! The entire episode is really one big gag, but it's a great one. Bordering on self-parody, the show has as at least as many references to itself as 'Wormhole X-Treme' - which, we now learn, was cancelled after one episode (Heh heh heh!).

    And the self-references don't stop there - far from it! As Joe tells his friends and family about the adventures of SG-1, he promises follow-ups to the Furlings, the Re'tu and Laira (though he doesn't reveal the answer to whether or not she was "with child").

    I'd been looking forward to seeing Dan Castellaneta on the show, and he doesn't disappoint. Gotta wonder, though, why Jack doesn't notice that Joe Spencer the barber resembles the guy who does the voice of Homer Simpson? Especially after Joe reminds him of his Simpsons obsession (and even refers to the Simpsons reference in 'Lost City'!).

    Random observations!
    - Nice funny tie in with last week's episode when Daniel says it's the second week in a row that someone has broken in to Jack's house...
    - References to Jonas, Pete, Hathor, Seth and, uh, Mary Steenburgen.
    - Flashback to a time in which Daniel had his classic season 1 / season 2 long hair. Nicely done.
    - So, admit it - who reacted pretty much the same way Joe did when they saw 'Meridian'? Come on, show of hands...
    - So does this mean it was the NID who killed the reporter in 'Secrets'? Nice that they finally adressed that particular plot point which has not even been mentioned since it happened. (Missed opportunity: Joe was his source! We never did find out who it really was.)

    Fun all around! A good thing too, because judging by the spoilers, it will probably be getting pretty serious from here on and through the rest of the season. Bring it on!

  4. #84
    Staff Sergeant
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurgle
    While I enjoyed this ep, there's one thing I don't get. If the stones only worked when Jack/Joe were in proximity to them, then how did Joe know about Anubis? Somehow, I doubt Jack had it in his pocket when he went to Taonas, or when he was frozen....
    It was mentioned Joe probably got the information when Jack was writing his reports with the stone sitting upstairs at the SGC, rather than actually going through the action, remember Jack was miffed that all the stories he/Joe had written were rejected.
    jan t

  5. #85
    Captain Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    yeah...that guy Armin something who got killed. He was a reporter so he probably had ties with magazine editors and stuff. Maybe he came across one of Joe's stories and had previous knowledge of something going on (them pesky journalists know too much) and decided to investigate. Joe could very well be his unknowing source

    Since they cancelled Wormhole Xtreme, maybe Joe could write a new series...closer to the truth "Gate to The Heavens, the adventures of an Army team, GTH-1, as they travel to other planets and face the evil, Gor'alds and their leader Zeus!" Or something
    May our transmatter beams cross again...

    Proud Member of the Chevron Guy Club

    "Out of that sea of stars came all the elements that make me what I am. "



  6. #86
    Colonel the dancer of spaz's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dana_Jeanne
    ...Daniel talks too fast and seems to have acquired a strange habit of jerking and twitching. He's also turning into a sarcastic mini-jack and that's not a Daniel I recognise...

    Dana Jeanne
    I know what you mean. Michael Shanks has great diction, and he delivers the lines in a very cool way, to say the least, but sometimes I have to rewind the tape or DVD, or strain to understand what he's saying.

    Mostly, I notice Daniel talks too quickly when he's either explaining something with complicated historical references, or when he's being witty. Both are great parts of Daniel's character, however, so I just take the "fast-talking" as a part of Daniel's character. From what I've seen, MS talks at a normal pace.

  7. #87
    John Druitt Frostfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    I enjoyed it. Not stellar but fun.

    Liked Brother's Grimm Repro (a double pun - bonus points for that).
    There is a great shot of Joe lounging in a chair in his vest where he is posed just like Homer.
    The team banter was smashing and just for a moment, I really thought Jack was about to admit his love for Selma!

    I think the writers were pretty even handed in their lampooning of the fans and of their own writing over the years.

    Citizen Joe's no Benny Russel, but he was fun non the less.

  8. #88
    Staff Sergeant Nurgle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Quote Originally Posted by jantreeuk1
    It was mentioned Joe probably got the information when Jack was writing his reports with the stone sitting upstairs at the SGC, rather than actually going through the action, remember Jack was miffed that all the stories he/Joe had written were rejected.
    Good point, but flawed. Since Joe didn't always know how the "story" ended, it seems more likely he was experiencing it in real-time.

  9. #89
    Lieutenant Colonel Ugly Pig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    I loved how you'll only be able to get all the jokes if you're a real Stargate geek. Like, how when Joe started telling the 'Fail Safe' story, the guy he told it to used the same 'I've seen the movie, it hits Paris' joke that Jack did back then. And how all Joe's "stories" had the same titles as their respective episodes did...

  10. #90
    Lieutenant Colonel Ugly Pig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurgle
    Good point, but flawed. Since Joe didn't always know how the "story" ended, it seems more likely he was experiencing it in real-time.
    It takes time to write a good report too, you know.

  11. #91
    First Lieutenant Watters87's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Great episode. Season 8 just keeps getting better and better. Dan Castellaneta did an excellent job as Joe. An excellent scene is where Joe is slouching on the couch and you hear and see the flashbacks.

    [Full Alert and Threads]
    Spoiler:
    Have they changed Kerry's job from being in the SGC Oversight Committee to her working in the CIA because Jack at the beginning says he has meeting with a Johnson person about Kinsey.

  12. #92
    Chief Master Sergeant Stargate Agent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    This was a great episode but one thing stood out as something why the show is suffering.

    In the episode Joe's wife says "the team interaction isn't what it used to be " THAT pretty much describes season 8 thus far. Offworld missions are very few and far between!!!

    The storys are thus getting weaker and weaker!!!!!!!

    This was a good episode tho...
    Lt. Ford to Dr Zelenka: "Is this some sort of payback for me beating up guys like you in high school?"
    - Stargate Atlantis: Season One - Hot Zone

    Dr. Beckett: "...Mom...I miss you terribly...*breaks down*...I can't do this!"
    - Stargate Atlantis: Season One - Letters from Pegasus

    Sen. Kinsey: "Do you trust this man?"
    Col. Jack O'Neill: "...No..."
    Mayboune: *shrugs*
    - Stargate SG-1 - Chain Reaction

    Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis I love science fiction

  13. #93
    Captain Ace's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    I wonder what the range is on those Ancient Long Range Communicators? I.E. the stones... If it's Galaxies, which I suppose it could be because it's all having to do with the mind and the subconscious, they should take one of the stones to Atlantis.

    Atlantis and the SGC could be in constant communication as long as they wrote down what they needed to say. I think the way Daniel explained it, was that it could communicate it through feelings and emotions, right? Not sure, I'll have to go and take a second look.

    But that would sure come in handy! Talk about stumbling across some valuable piece of technology...looks like the SGC achieved thier standing orders alot earlier than we thought they did.

    Ace
    Last edited by Ace; January 19th, 2005 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Added on some more reasoning
    "Good Morning Dr. Silberman. How's the knee?" - Sarah Connor 1994

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  14. #94

    Default poor martin

    poor martin!

    Wormhole X-Treme got cancelled after the first episode!

    And if this Joe guy viewed all jack's mission reports and images of the missions, why nothing about martin loyd, etc.


    Martin is kind similar to Joe in many ways. Only Joe is no alien.

    Joe thinks that someone ripped HIM off, lol.

    What is Martin doing now then? He stayed to be with the tv show, but they tell us that it was soon cancelled.

  15. #95
    Lieutenant Colonel EllieVee's Avatar
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    Default Re: poor martin

    I thought a lot of it was very funny. The mockery of fans was very gentle, particularly the team interaction comment. I didn't have a problem with Jack having visions. My problem with it comes at the end when Jack meets Joe's wife (whose name escapes me for the moment). From what Jack says I think we're expected to believe that she gets told that it's all true. It's the same problem I had with Pete being told about the program. Whatever happened to everything being such a secret? Are they going to confirm the program exists with everyone who accidentally comes across it from now on as a way of breaking it to the public quietly?

  16. #96
    Second Lieutenant Buzz Lightyear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nurgle
    Good point, but flawed. Since Joe didn't always know how the "story" ended, it seems more likely he was experiencing it in real-time.
    Real-time? Highly unlikely. Missions often took many hours, if not days to complete. If Joe experienced the missions in real time, he'd become positively catatonic. OTOH, it takes a much shorter time to write a nice concise report. Remember that Jack is only writing his reports from his own perspective and he might not actually know all the details himself.
    To Infinity And Beyond!

    O'Neill: "Do we know this... shrub?"

  17. #97
    Second Lieutenant Mr. Seven's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    I'm sorry, I just can't stop laughing. This show was hilarious.

    "Don't get me wrong, Jonas is a good guy, but..."

    "If you ever need me in the weapons chair in Antartica..I'm there!"

    This was great. Not only the lines, but the wardrobe changes of Joe. When he starts to spiral down a bit, he goes into the wife beater t-shirt under his unbottoned shirt. Then finally to just the beater.

    Oh man I have to watch this again and go to the best parts.

  18. #98
    Staff Sergeant kashi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    If the device only worked when they were in proximity of it, that means that he would have seen O'neill writing mission reports, not actually visions of the events as they occured. Major plot flaw. I'm very disappointed with this episode.

  19. #99
    Captain
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    While he could have known Jack's feelings when he was sitting over his reports, he couldn't have known about "the whole Pete Shanahan thing",
    I was thinking this yesterday, but then I realised that he would have. Jack would certainly have mentioned Pete and his relationship to Sam in his report on the Orisis incident in Chimera. As for Tealc's 'colour change', it would depend what caused it. "Spoke to the medical staff today about Teal'c's 'condition'. They assure me this skin pigmation change is perfectly normal for a Jaffa of Teal'c's age...." Even if that one didn't appear in a Jack report, Joe was clearly also getting a visual - he knew what Jack looked like right from the start and asked the Air Force officer on the phone to describe him to see if the description matched his vision. So asking Teal'c about his colour seems naturally more to do with having seen him over the years, than anything written about him.

    Actually, I think we're getting the wrong end of the stick here. I believe (would have to recheck the episode, but pretty sure I'm right here) that the fact that Joe was taking information from Jack's reports was only relevent to explaining how Joe knew about Jack's offworld exploits, away from the base and the stone. It wasn't intended to be a full explanation of Joe's visions, simply the offworld element. Obviously, Joe was also able to access Jack's thoughts and emotions. Which makes sense since we're talking about a psychic link. This is proven because Joe knew that Jack has a thing for fishing, Mary Steenbergen, and the colour peridot - hardly things Jack would be putting in his reports. Also that Joe was able to write fictional narrative into his stories which also wouldn't be in military reports - what Jack was feeling when he left Laira for example. Joe could have been speculating there, but it's more likely he got that information direct from Jack's brain. So I think it would be a mistake to assume that the only information source for Joe was what Jack wrote down in his reports. Obviously it was a combination of reports and Jack's thoughts and feelings that went into making Joe's visions.

    This could also explain the seeming discrepency re. the battle in Antartica. That didn't happen offworld, but right here on earth. So perhaps that time, Joe was getting the information directly from Jack's thoughts and feelings, in real time. Of course, there's still the proximity thing - it's unlikely Jack took the stone with him when he went to Antarctica. But maybe that can be explained by the psychic link between Jack and Joe strenghtening as time and years went by and they both grew familiar with the other's brain patterns. Perhaps as the years went by that link grew stronger naturally, meaning that the stone was less and less necessary as a conduit. Enabling Joe to sense Jack over a greater distance than he'd been able to at the start of the link.

    One neat detail I liked, btw, was Joe's first vision not being from the Pilot. It would have been way too co-incidental that Joe picked up the stone at exactly the same moment Jack was recalled to duty.

    What was with that telephone thing at the beginning? Remember Cassie's birthday in "Rite of Passage": Sam had to *buy* a cake instead of baking it herself, but now she knows the housewive's secret ingredient for omelettes? I couldn't believe it...
    I'm not sure I understand your point here. You mean that Sam knew Jack's 'secret ingredient' was beer? That doesn't make her a cooking expert. It makes her a Jack expert. She knows this guy backwards, including his love of beer. <g> So I don't find that particularly odd.

    Christine, the 'something' in your quote of the telephone conversation is 'handful'. 'A handful of ingredients'. (Having played this scene endlessly for two days with a big goofy smile on my face, I know it back to front )

    Spoiler:

    Have they changed Kerry's job from being in the SGC Oversight Committee to her working in the CIA because Jack at the beginning says he has meeting with a Johnson person about Kinsey.

    Don't know about that, but I didn't pick up on this reference. If it's a reference to Kerry - cute! I have my doubts it is though. Jack's talking about meeting this Johnson person on Monday morning. Threads is three weeks away. It would be a heck of a long time to Monday. So I suspect it's just a case of them using the same name.



    Albion
    Last edited by Albion; January 20th, 2005 at 03:47 AM.
    Listen, we had General Ryan come on and do a little cameo for us, and he's a real live four star, one of the big guys. And I had to ask him point blank, because there's a certain irreverence that I bring to the character, and denseness, but while we were doing this scene, I just looked at him and said, "Do you have guys like me in...?" and he stopped me and said, "Yes, and worse, and you're doing a fine job, son."

    Richard Dean Anderson

  20. #100
    Probie
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    Default Re: Citizen Joe (815)

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Lightyear
    Will those two Ancient stone devices play a future role? Will Joe or the naturally-occurring Ancient gene have any importance now that [Atlantis spoiler]
    Spoiler:
    we have the ability to give some people the gene artificially?


    ......

    I know some have said that the plot did not advance but I saw a couple of things which have an impact later:

    a
    Spoiler:
    as mentioned, Jack referring to meeting 'Johnson' on the Monday - Kerry Johnson;


    b
    Spoiler:
    the fact that the stone Joe bought was found in Egypt and we know they go to Egypt looking for a ZPM in Mobeius. To me, they are taking a gamble that if one piece of Ancient technology was around in ancient times then there could be more on Earth just waiting to be uncovered.
    .

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