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  1. #1
    Staff Sergeant sinderg's Avatar
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    Default Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    So Iíve been rewatching season 5.
    0510 - First Contact and 0511 - Lost Tribe.

    Attero Device was created by Janus but once he realised it was blowing up stargates it was switched off. I think it should have been used as a last resort. Just wondering how many others think the same.

    It may have cost a few millions lives, but those lives were left defenceless against the wraith, culling after culling. They could have sent out a warning to move away from the Stargate before it was used.

    Anything wrong with my logic?

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel lordofseas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Ya, just the few million lives part. After all, these are just human beings. *shrugs* At least against the Wraith humanity as a race could survive. And the Ancients couldn't travel to every world saying, "Stay away from the big ringy thing!" unless they wanted to wraith to find out about it.
    If you wish to see more of my rants, diatribes, and general comments, check out my Twitter account SirRyanR!
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  3. #3
    Lieutenant Colonel dasNdanger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Yes - lots. Remember, the Wraith are not cockroaches - they are sentient, living, breathing beings that just happen to have a very specific diet. They don't feed out of malicious intent, but out of a need dictated to them by nature. Wiping out Wraith would be the same as killing all tigers, or all sharks, just because - someday - one might eat us.

    As with all predators, the answer is not driving them to extinction, but finding a way to manage them. Keep in mind that the Wraith have a wealth of knowledge to share, not only scientifically, but also historically. AND they have the ability to restore life. Now...why would anyone want to destroy such a unique species??!

    The Attero Device simply proved how narrow-minded the Ancients were - much like humans right here on earth who burn down rain forests and wipe out entire species before ever trying to understand them and their impact on the environment.

    Coupled with the whole 'killing humans to kill Wraith' thing that's just so hypocritical. Why kill humans for no good reason when they could have been used to sustain the life of such a beautiful species as Wraith??



    das
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    The Ancients could have deactivated the PG gate network and then enabled the device. Simple as that.

  5. #5
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by sblade View Post
    The Ancients could have deactivated the PG gate network and then enabled the device. Simple as that.
    And the Wraith could have reactivated the gate network
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  6. #6
    Staff Sergeant sinderg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    lordofseas
    Ya, just the few million lives part. After all, these are just human beings. *shrugs* At least against the Wraith humanity as a race could survive. And the Ancients couldn't travel to every world saying, "Stay away from the big ringy thing!" unless they wanted to wraith to find out about it.
    Well it depends. Iíll make up a random scenario With a random planet X somewhere in the Pegasus galaxy.
    A = 50 million people live on planet X and the Stargate explodes and kills 1-5 mill based around the Stargate. So thereís 45+mill left to carry on and grow as a civilization. This civilization can live free from the terror and fear of being culled.
    B = The wraith feed on the population of planet X. 95% of the population are killed (45mill). The rest of the population is left to live as 'cattle , to reproduce' in the eyes of the wraith. Every time the population expands the wraith come and feed on it again. no growth as a civilization and constant terror and fear of being culled.
    Iíd take option A but It all depends on what the average population of a Pegasus planet.

    sblade
    Yes - lots. Remember, the Wraith are not cockroaches - they are sentient, living, breathing beings that just happen to have a very specific diet. They don't feed out of malicious intent, but out of a need dictated to them by nature. Wiping out Wraith would be the same as killing all tigers, or all sharks, just because - someday - one might eat us.
    The wraith are a disease which needs cutting out. Its not the same as killing all tigers because we (if we chose) can live in balance with tigers. if we leave tigers alone they wonít come to us and suck the life out of us.
    Last edited by sinderg; May 14th, 2009 at 07:46 PM.

  7. #7
    First Lieutenant arelyss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by dasNdanger View Post
    Yes - lots. Remember, the Wraith are not cockroaches - they are sentient, living, breathing beings that just happen to have a very specific diet. They don't feed out of malicious intent, but out of a need dictated to them by nature. Wiping out Wraith would be the same as killing all tigers, or all sharks, just because - someday - one might eat us.

    As with all predators, the answer is not driving them to extinction, but finding a way to manage them. Keep in mind that the Wraith have a wealth of knowledge to share, not only scientifically, but also historically. AND they have the ability to restore life. Now...why would anyone want to destroy such a unique species??!

    The Attero Device simply proved how narrow-minded the Ancients were - much like humans right here on earth who burn down rain forests and wipe out entire species before ever trying to understand them and their impact on the environment.

    Coupled with the whole 'killing humans to kill Wraith' thing that's just so hypocritical. Why kill humans for no good reason when they could have been used to sustain the life of such a beautiful species as Wraith??





    das

    those ancients created and used the device only to hide their "mistakes" - the wraith - even if they played god and created sentient beings.

  8. #8
    Chief Master Sergeant Nightfighter89's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    And the Wraith could have reactivated the gate network
    I'm going to hazard a guess that being the ones who built the gates, the Ancients would be able to disable them in a way sufficient to confound the wraith.

  9. #9
    Staff Sergeant WraithInMe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by dasNdanger View Post
    Yes - lots. Remember, the Wraith are not cockroaches - they are sentient, living, breathing beings that just happen to have a very specific diet. They don't feed out of malicious intent, but out of a need dictated to them by nature. Wiping out Wraith would be the same as killing all tigers, or all sharks, just because - someday - one might eat us.

    As with all predators, the answer is not driving them to extinction, but finding a way to manage them. Keep in mind that the Wraith have a wealth of knowledge to share, not only scientifically, but also historically. AND they have the ability to restore life. Now...why would anyone want to destroy such a unique species??!

    The Attero Device simply proved how narrow-minded the Ancients were - much like humans right here on earth who burn down rain forests and wipe out entire species before ever trying to understand them and their impact on the environment.

    Coupled with the whole 'killing humans to kill Wraith' thing that's just so hypocritical. Why kill humans for no good reason when they could have been used to sustain the life of such a beautiful species as Wraith??



    das
    I completely agree.

    But not just that, the SG provided a means for trade, exploration, escape for whatever reasons, etc.
    Quite a few of those planets have depended heavily on the gate for centuries. And what would give us the right to change their way of lives?
    "Hey everyone, we've only been to your galaxy for a few years but we've now decided for everyone in your galaxy that the only way to protect you is to blow up your gate, Sorry for any inconvenience"?
    Despite that, even if the gates were destroyed, the Wraith are a very intelligent race and there's the chance that they could find a way around the hyperdrive issue anyway. So what then?

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by sinderg View Post
    The wraith are a disease which needs cutting out. Its not the same as killing all tigers because we (if we chose) can live in balance with tigers. if we leave tigers alone they wonít come to us and suck the life out of us.
    They aren't a disease. They can't help that they evolved into a unique species.
    You walk into the jungle and go pet the pretty tigers I'm sure he'll purr like a kitten as he's licking the blood off his paws...

  10. #10

    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    And the Wraith could have reactivated the gate network
    Of course the Wraith could reactivate the gate network. They are the GATE BUILDERS after all.

    Really, how hard could it be to shut down the whole thing permanently? Just look at what Felger and Ba'al did back at MW with Avenger 2.0.

    Don't tell me the amazing Ancients couldn't pull off something a gazillion times better than that, that is, assuming they didn't have an off switch for the gate network they created all along.

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel dasNdanger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by sinderg View Post
    The wraith are a disease which needs cutting out. Its not the same as killing all tigers because we (if we chose) can live in balance with tigers. if we leave tigers alone they wonít come to us and suck the life out of us.

    Whoa! Waitaminute! A disease??! That's genocidal-talk! They are not a disease...they are an intelligent species with special dietary needs. The fact that at least one of them (Todd) tried to find an alternative way of feeding shows that they are not incapable of changing their mindset, it's just that physically it didn't work. You just don't wipe out a species/race when some of them are willing to find a way to coexist with humans...well, coexist, but with their own agenda...but that's a different subject all together.


    das
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  12. #12
    Ian Chesterton Edi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    They.......... want........... to EAT US!

    And besides - that device wont actually kill them all, but only those who use hyperdrive and all the rest would be stuck... with no food they will die, but hey - if a swarm of tigers would attack our city's because they have nothing else to eat but humans, wouldn't you block all the entries to that city so they cant get in and eat us all? Even if that would mean they would die starving outside? Or would you sacrifice some people to them to save their species?
    http://forum.gateworld.net/image.php?u=36678&type=sigpic&dateline=1232133833

  13. #13
    Lieutenant Colonel
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    correct me if im wrong but wasnt it a secret experiment which we didtn tell anyone about. the ancients were worried about causality and non-interference so they wouldnt want to shut down the gate system..and who said they would ever think that.

    the pegasus galaxy is smaller and has less gates, maybe scrambling the co-ord system woulod be more difficlut in a smaller area?

  14. #14
    First Lieutenant Nemises's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    the difference is that the tauri would have used it if we were in the shoes of the ancients. i know i would have.

    defeat them at all costs!!

  15. #15
    Staff Sergeant sinderg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    WraithInMe

    I completely agree.

    But not just that, the SG provided a means for trade, exploration, escape for whatever reasons, etc.
    Quite a few of those planets have depended heavily on the gate for centuries. And what would give us the right to change their way of lives?
    "Hey everyone, we've only been to your galaxy for a few years but we've now decided for everyone in your galaxy that the only way to protect you is to blow up your gate, Sorry for any inconvenience"?
    Despite that, even if the gates were destroyed, the Wraith are a very intelligent race and there's the chance that they could find a way around the hyperdrive issue anyway. So what then?
    I was actually thinking of why didnt the ancients use it. the gatesystem is theres after all.

    My plan was was that the ancients use the Attero Device then go around and cripple the wraith fleet to the point that they could swith off the Attero Device and then win the war.
    They aren't a disease. They can't help that they evolved into a unique species.
    You walk into the jungle and go pet the pretty tigers I'm sure he'll purr like a kitten as he's licking the blood off his paws...
    What about the responsibility the ancients had to the humans they let evolve in the pegasus galaxy, they left them all defenceless and then packed up shop and ran.

  16. #16
    First Lieutenant arelyss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    come on people, we are not talking about pizzas here. why kill all wraith to win the war instead of searching for a way to heal them ( to eat normal food)? killing and destroying is not always the best option.

  17. #17
    Lieutenant Colonel Ltcolshepjumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadaveria View Post
    come on people, we are not talking about pizzas here. why kill all wraith to win the war instead of searching for a way to heal them ( to eat normal food)? killing and destroying is not always the best option.
    Uh, the Wraith are evil. They don't just feed off humans, they wipe out entire civilizations. "Curing" the Wraith won't make them any nicer. Repeat, the Wraith are EVIL. Even if given the choice to stop feeding, they probably would not agree. Remember, given the option of feeding off Wraith-turned-humans, they still chose to try to reach Earth. Yes, the Wraith do need to feed to remain strong, but they do feed maliciously. They could have found a way themselves to regain the use of their digestive organs. They are smarter than us! But in 10,000 years, they chose to dominate the galaxy, wiping out all races with tech that could challenge them. They are EVIL!

    And the Attero device could have been used if Janus had simply shutdown the gate network. It would have allowed all the Ancients to return to Atlantis, and halted the Wraith advance. Then, the Ancient vessels could destroy the Wraith fleet systematically, without fear of Wraith reinforcements. They may have even been able to locate their cloning facility and destroy it.
    Last edited by Ltcolshepjumper; May 16th, 2009 at 06:29 AM.
    Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth or easy...
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    4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; )
    5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant arelyss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltcolshepjumper View Post
    Uh, the Wraith are evil. They don't just feed off humans, they wipe out entire civilizations. "Curing" the Wraith won't make them any nicer. Repeat, the Wraith are EVIL.
    yes, you are right, but it's the natural law of the survival of the fittest.

  19. #19
    Airman
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    Default Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    To paraphrase Todd, the ancients didn't have the stomach for it. They didn't want to have the blood of so many humans on their hands. When it came down to it they'd rather sacrifice themselves than kill millions of innocents.

  20. #20
    Chief Master Sergeant WraithQueenH's Avatar
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    Post Re: Attero Device - End game , should it have been used?

    No I don't think the Attero Device should be used.. ever.

    I have so much to say here so pardon my soapbox!

    Killing all Wraith is wrong and changing them is also wrong (Yes judging by my screenname I am biased, but that's not why I am saying it.)

    Point one: Some of the people on here have written that they are a disease that should be killed. Ok, let's just take that and say we all agree with you. Let's pretend for a second that they are not wraith but instead are Schizophrenic earthlings. Sometimes Schizophrenia causes violence and inocent people get hurt or even killed. So, do we kill all Schizophrenics because they might hurt or kill us? No, we don't because its not their fault that they are Schizophrenic.

    Because Schizophrenics look like us, do we treat them differently than the wraith? No, Wraith show human qualities that we so highly prize and in fact we know that they share at least part of our DNA. Just like a Schizophrenic cannot control their "disease", it's not the Wraith's fault that Humans' are their food. It's how they are. You cannot and you should not just wipe them out of existence because you don't agree with their biology. The Wraith rightly believe they must feed to live. Doesn't every BEING have the right to life?

    Point Two: Some people have written that we should change Wraith DNA and that we have the right too in order to save ourselves and other humans. Then we could all live together and be at peace. Great! By the way, on Earth I think we should change person's DNA too.. in fact, I don't like people with _______ eyes__ (insert your eye color here). I don't agree with them so I'll just change your DNA if you don't mind so you come around to my way of thinking. I'm sure that's okay right? What was that you said? I don't have the right to do that.. hmm. imagine that. Why then should we have the right to change Wraith DNA?

    Point Three: Wraith only die if they use their hyperdrive so the Attero device is okay. Forgetting the fact that this kills humans near stargates too and without stargates all trade would come to a halt. As we know from Teyla, a lot of different peoples trade with each other to survive. It's possible without this trade, those that survive their stargate blowing up would still die of starvation due to lack of food. But, ingore that for a second: What gives us the right to stop Wraith from using their technology to move around? In fact, some might say that Earthlings don't even have the right to BE in their galaxy since we didn't even use our technology to get there in the first place. How many Stargates has Earth built from scratch? None. The Wraith use a different type of hyperdrive then anyone else and that's why the Attero device can isolate the frequency so we can assume that the Wraith made it mostly on their own. We haven't.. we took our hyperdrive from Asgard technology. Oh and it goes back to killing everyone in a race for something they cannot control, their need to eat.. a need we share.

    Point four: For the sake of argument, let's say killing Wraith because they are wraith is okay. Someone on our planet tried to destroy some HUMAN BEINGS about 50 years ago because of "what they were". These people wiped out innocent children, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, whole families. "These people didn't use kill one "race", they killed all people that they thought we a "danger" to them so the Roma; Soviets; ethnic Poles; other Slavic people; the physically or mentally disabled people; gay men; religious dissidents (such as Jehovah's witnesses); and political dissidents; even Catholic priest and nuns and other "normal" people were killed. If you haven't figured out who "They" were, They also killed Jews.. in fact the Jews were the main target of Nazi's "Final Solution" and the other people were just necessary as far as the Nazi's were concerned. Numbers place all of these deaths from anywhere between 9 to 17 million killing innocent beings who were just living their lives and were killed becasue one man thought that was the right thing to do to save "his" people.

    Earth cannot just wipe out a civilization because they fear them for real or perceived threats. I'm am not saying that the SGC equals Nazis. One is real and one is fictional. I'm just trying to point out that the line between killing aliens because we don't like their needs and killing humans because we don't like them isn't that big a jump if you think of the bigger picture. Once you make the choice to kill; what is the difference?

    In closing:

    Should cows kill us because we eat them? Humans have a choice you know... we don't need to kill animals to live. Humans can live on plants without any animal products. A Wraith doesn't have that choice. If we kill all wraith because they eat us, we would then lose our humanity. All types of beings have the right to live and we cannot value one beings life over another.

    With all the ancient's mistakes, even they realized that and they didn't wipeout the wraith. We have seem ancient's choose not to use the Ark of Truth on the Ori's worshippers. The ancients made the right choice and realized that if you lose your humanity, you'll never really win any war.

    Getting down now.
    WraithQueenH

    * * * * * * * * *
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    "I'm not sure I like the sound of that."
    "There is much about Wraith that you do not know, Sheppard."
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    "We all agree the Ancients were pretty screwed up. All the ones I met were arrogant and condescending and not for good reason. Now they made giant mistakes and never fixed them." - John Sheppard

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