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  1. #1
    Major Puddle-Jumper's Avatar
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    Default Cylons (Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica)

    Zoe is essentially the first cylon, and I think we can all agree that her AI will be the base for which all future centurian AI's will be based on. She believes in one god, and Ellen said that the idea of one god came from the centurians, and that belief was key to the cylons in the show, but is that just a remenant of Zoes original programming? I know that could have been part of Gods original design or whatever but it just kinda makes the belief in one god seem a lot less important.....
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  2. #2
    Colonel knowles2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle-Jumper View Post
    Zoe is essentially the first cylon, and I think we can all agree that her AI will be the base for which all future centurian AI's will be based on. She believes in one god, and Ellen said that the idea of one god came from the centurians, and that belief was key to the cylons in the show, but is that just a remenant of Zoes original programming? I know that could have been part of Gods original design or whatever but it just kinda makes the belief in one god seem a lot less important.....
    Well if it is then the one god wanted the cycle to continue and not be broken. Which mean Angle Baltar and Six bet on whether humanity will ever break the cycle is a pretty useless one and makes that entire scene redundant, because god can simply interfere and make sure there is always a war an the cycle continues. Which makes an interesting point in why does this suppose thing that does not want to be called a god want to continue the same endless cycle. Perhaps it just a giant computer with confused programming, trap in a cycle of it own.

    But Six pointed out that each cycle essentially key bits changes from each previous cycle, between what we know as the first war Kabol and the twelve colonies the key change between Kabol cyclons were that the colonies cylons developed a one true god religion, it did not change the out come however.

    I do not believe that the AI is base of Zoe, infact it was pretty clear that it is not, as it was not the key to make the weapon system work. It makes more sense if she and her one true god buddies simply change the programing before the war breaks out in the hope the cylons would join there cause. Perhaps to save there madrassas from being shut down by the government using the cylons as the foot solders.

    Then Zoe being a better smarter programmer change her daddies program and programme the one true god program into them. With the unfortunate effect that it turns the entire cylon army on to all humans and not just the non believers.

    Through this does conflict with what we heard in BSG that the war was about the mistreatment of robotic lifeforms. But then these writers could not maintain consistency through out a single show, so we really should not be expecting them to maintain it through two different shows should we now.

  3. #3
    Major Puddle-Jumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by knowles2 View Post
    I do not believe that the AI is base of Zoe, infact it was pretty clear that it is not, as it was not the key to make the weapon system work.
    What? Zoes AI is what made the cylon work, they needed that stolen piece of technology to make the cylon capable of supporting such an advanced AI.... Its pretty clear that the AI Zoe is the basis of the cylons AI, its basically stated....
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  4. #4
    Colonel knowles2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by Puddle-Jumper View Post
    What? Zoes AI is what made the cylon work, they needed that stolen piece of technology to make the cylon capable of supporting such an advanced AI.... Its pretty clear that the AI Zoe is the basis of the cylons AI, its basically stated....
    Nope it was made clear it was the electronic brain thing they stole. Go back to the scene to the first test and the video call later on and they say that the device means all the other company who perfected the device only needed to create a body for the brain. Meaning the brain was the key to making his cylons work and not the Zoe Algorithm to make synthetic versions of dead humans.The AI was already advance enough but they never had the neccessary brain capacity.

    The device meant a working Cylon model, not the AI, go an track down the script or watch it if you do not believe me.
    He stole the device to get his save his daughter but it was the key to the entire project and not just Zoe.

    I personally thought it was a mistake at first because it sought of makes the Zoe storyline far less important but then I relies that it increase Adarma importances to the story ten folds. Because without Adarma getting the mafia to steal the device, greystone may never of completed his work, and go on and build the one true gods people robotic army in the future, which eventually wipes out all of the colonies in the future. Adarma dad was the source of the destruction of the colonies, with out him the one god wackos may never of infiltrated or reprogram the other company cylons, because they would not have there super intelligence Zoe to lead, given the racial hatred they may of even cancelled the contract rather than let a off world company have it.
    Adarma dad is the sole source of the destruction of the colonies. and when he relies it, when greystone spells it out for him, well it going to be explosive.
    Last edited by knowles2; May 4th, 2009 at 10:51 PM.

  5. #5
    Major Puddle-Jumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by knowles2 View Post
    Nope it was made clear it was the electronic brain thing they stole. Go back to the scene to the first test and the video call later on and they say that the device means all the other company who perfected the device only needed to create a body for the brain. Meaning the brain was the key to making his cylons work and not the Zoe Algorithm to make synthetic versions of dead humans.The AI was already advance enough but they never had the neccessary brain capacity.

    The device meant a working Cylon model, not the AI, go an track down the script or watch it if you do not believe me.
    He stole the device to get his save his daughter but it was the key to the entire project and not just Zoe.

    I personally thought it was a mistake at first because it sought of makes the Zoe storyline far less important but then I relies that it increase Adarma importances to the story ten folds. Because without Adarma getting the mafia to steal the device, greystone may never of completed his work, and go on and build the one true gods people robotic army in the future, which eventually wipes out all of the colonies in the future. Adarma dad was the source of the destruction of the colonies, with out him the one god wackos may never of infiltrated or reprogram the other company cylons, because they would not have there super intelligence Zoe to lead, given the racial hatred they may of even cancelled the contract rather than let a off world company have it.
    Adarma dad is the sole source of the destruction of the colonies. and when he relies it, when greystone spells it out for him, well it going to be explosive.
    Yeah thats true actually, but still the Zoe AI is far more advanced then any other AI they have, and I still think thats going to be the key to making the cylons more intelligent, either she will lead an uprising by improving what AI is in the other cylons or she will be copied and downloaded into all them (obviously with elements of her personality removed) it would certainly exaplain where the cylon notion of a single god came from, and why they rebelled aside from the obvious being used as slaves and becoming self aware (it was stated in the movie that zoe was a very rebellious teenager) I know the second is a bit of a stretch but still it could be something. Also Zoes AI is essentially a copy of her, and in galactica it was stated that the centurians gave them the one god idea, this fits in that Zoe gave them that, along with the cylon tendency to rebel (first cylon war, cylon civil war) I stick by my guns, that the Zoe AI will be the basis of all cylons or else she will at some point lead the cylons and change their programming. Fair enough it was what Adama stole was what was key to making the cylons work but I think zoe will be the key to them becoming self aware. And that basically the cylons we saw in galatica were essentially a product of the Zoe AI
    I dunno what to put in here now..

  6. #6
    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Oh, the Zoe AI will play some important role in what is to come. I just know it.

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  7. #7
    First Lieutenant peragrin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    I think your both right. The Zoe AI download was a failure. However Since Daniel thought that zoe and her avatar were both gone, he uploaded a basic soldier AI template into centurion prototype.

    He didn't however actually erase Zoe. The Basic Soldier template Came active and conquered the demonstrations. However the Zoe avatar once again began to adapt to new feedback thus allowing the two streams to merge.

    This explains many things including why the cylons use a cooperative government and always seem to act like 16 year old kids who never actually grow up, yet still feel the need to rebel against their parents.

    With zoe being the creative one the rebels probably have fighter and maybe even captial ship designs in place. once an army of ground soldier is built ships would come up. However the war itself will probably escalate very slowly. It does last 12 years. The First many of those years will probably be skirmishes until large and larger vessels get built.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by peragrin View Post
    I think your both right. The Zoe AI download was a failure. However Since Daniel thought that zoe and her avatar were both gone, he uploaded a basic soldier AI template into centurion prototype.

    He didn't however actually erase Zoe. The Basic Soldier template Came active and conquered the demonstrations. However the Zoe avatar once again began to adapt to new feedback thus allowing the two streams to merge.

    This explains many things including why the cylons use a cooperative government and always seem to act like 16 year old kids who never actually grow up, yet still feel the need to rebel against their parents.

    With zoe being the creative one the rebels probably have fighter and maybe even captial ship designs in place. once an army of ground soldier is built ships would come up. However the war itself will probably escalate very slowly. It does last 12 years. The First many of those years will probably be skirmishes until large and larger vessels get built.
    I got the impression that the Zoe AI and the Soldier AI were in two completely seperate bodies.


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  9. #9
    First Lieutenant peragrin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    I got the impression that the Zoe AI and the Soldier AI were in two completely seperate bodies.
    Well how many prototype bodies do they have? Since they are dealing with software issues I would bet only the one. Besides they looked identical.

  10. #10
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by peragrin View Post
    Well how many prototype bodies do they have? Since they are dealing with software issues I would bet only the one. Besides they looked identical.
    They never had any issues with the hardware, it was the software and cybernetic brain that was the problem. Additionally, I doubt that Greystone would be carting that robotic body back and forth between his home and his company's lab and demo room.

    I think it's likely that for the demonstration he duplicated the 'brain' he had stolen so it was made by their company and not so obviously the stolen copy, meaning the stolen one still resides within the Zoebot in his own home.


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  11. #11
    First Lieutenant peragrin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    They never had any issues with the hardware, it was the software and cybernetic brain that was the problem. Additionally, I doubt that Greystone would be carting that robotic body back and forth between his home and his company's lab and demo room.

    I think it's likely that for the demonstration he duplicated the 'brain' he had stolen so it was made by their company and not so obviously the stolen copy, meaning the stolen one still resides within the Zoebot in his own home.
    It would be easier to move the body than to have a second body. however my main thought is that the lab in which zoebot calls from doesn't look like the house but in an office building.

  12. #12
    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    They never had any issues with the hardware, it was the software and cybernetic brain that was the problem. Additionally, I doubt that Greystone would be carting that robotic body back and forth between his home and his company's lab and demo room.

    I think it's likely that for the demonstration he duplicated the 'brain' he had stolen so it was made by their company and not so obviously the stolen copy, meaning the stolen one still resides within the Zoebot in his own home.
    I think that is most likely the case as well.

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cylons *Spoiler for the pilot and all galactica*

    If you think about it, Zoe is/was a spoiled rich brat, who whilst a complete genius with computers, wasn't/isn't at the age where she's emotionally grounded, couple that with the fact that she hates her parents, she feels the need to strike out on her own.... she's a seriously messed up kid at the time of her death, and her AI copy is even less stable, because whilst she knows what she is, she's got the same insecurities that the real Zoe had twofold, because she can't fully comprehend her own excistance.

    Any of these traits are a bad basis for a cyborg-conciousness but if it is her mind, that starts the Cylon rebellion, then it's easy to see why. At the centre of it all is someone who's like a child, trying to stand on their own feet.

    It would also explain why the Cylons were trying to make flesh bodies when the Final Five reached the colonies because Zoe wanted to be real, and to step into the real world as her. Having a real body instead of a Centurion body would be the only way to do that.

    seriously, it's a very believable and very poetic thing to think that the Cylons are dealing with the basic forms of the insecurities of a 16 year old girl.

    in fact, just look at the Cylons in BSG. 8 is emotionally unstable, 1 has the same kind of resentment of his 'parents', 6 has the same devotion to the one God.

    I really like that idea. One of the reasons I'm so looking forward to Caprica starting.
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