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  1. #1
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    Default Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    What do you think?

    Although there were a few really good 7 of 9 centric episodes, and also quality stuff in the seasons she was in, I feel Voyager was never as good as it was in the seasons before she came on board. I think the stories were better in the earlier days of Voyager.

    One of the issues for me is that since 7 of 9 came on board, the mysteriousness and terror that the borg had was greatly watered down, and they became just another villan. Welcome further thoughts.

    PS I am not anti 7 of 9, I think Jeri Ryan is a very good actress, but I don't know I feel something was lost.

  2. #2
    Colonel nx01a's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    I really enjoyed long-hair, psychokinetic Kes in her catsuit. Sadly, she really didn't have much to say about the 'human condition', but I just love catsuited psychokinetics with long hair.
    Voyager found its footing , sadly, with the Borg. 7/9's voyage towards humanity mirrored Voyager's voyage to Earth. And we got WAY more 'splosions out of the Borg than we could have EVER gotten from the Kazon.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    I really enjoyed long-hair, psychokinetic Kes in her catsuit. Sadly, she really didn't have much to say about the 'human condition', but I just love catsuited psychokinetics with long hair.
    Voyager found its footing , sadly, with the Borg. 7/9's voyage towards humanity mirrored Voyager's voyage to Earth. And we got WAY more 'splosions out of the Borg than we could have EVER gotten from the Kazon.
    Your Fetish is duely noted, and that is an interesting way of looking at Voyager and 7 of 9's journey that I hadn't thought about in those terms. Nice one.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    i just got sick and tired and bored of every episode - seemingly - being about either 7 of 9 or the doctor

    every once in a while, fine, but it felt like it was every week that i had jeri ryan's boobs front and center and i just got sick of it. I felt the same with enterprise's obsession with t'pol. I literally stopped watching the show because of the writers' obsession with one character and her boobs

    i remember, during season 5 and 6 i think, of voyager going 'dude, there's 147 people on the ship, can i see something about one of them every so often please'

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    I really liked 7 of 9, so I would have to say that Voyager was better after she arrived.

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydiver View Post
    i just got sick and tired and bored of every episode - seemingly - being about either 7 of 9 or the doctor

    every once in a while, fine, but it felt like it was every week that i had jeri ryan's boobs front and center and i just got sick of it. I felt the same with enterprise's obsession with t'pol. I literally stopped watching the show because of the writers' obsession with one character and her boobs

    i remember, during season 5 and 6 i think, of voyager going 'dude, there's 147 people on the ship, can i see something about one of them every so often please'
    Yeah seasons 5 and 6 were very heavy on 7 of 9 and Doctor stories. I am a fan of both Voyager and Enterprise, but it is certainly interesting how they had main female characters which are well endowed. maybe the Enterprise PTB saw how successful it was for Voyager and decided that's what Enterprise needs (just a guess).

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by the fifth man View Post
    I really liked 7 of 9, so I would have to say that Voyager was better after she arrived.
    I also liked the character of 7 of 9, I just feel that the stories IMO were not as good, seemed forced in places.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    I liked the character, she was very much akin to Data who was one of the greatest characters ever!
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  9. #9
    Colonel nx01a's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydiver View Post
    i just got sick and tired and bored of every episode - seemingly - being about either 7 of 9 or the doctor

    As opposed to ever episode seemingly being about Picard or Data, or Kirk and Spock? The writers couldn't possibly find stuff that was truly interesting to do with characters like Neelix or Mayweather that unless it involved killing them. Like there're filler episodes, there're filler characters. 7/9 and The Doctor were their best chances to explore 'human' concerns from an alien perspective. They certainly couldn't do it with Harry Kim. Unless they killed him. Again.

    every once in a while, fine, but it felt like it was every week that i had jeri ryan's boobs front and center and i just got sick of it. I felt the same with enterprise's obsession with t'pol. I literally stopped watching the show because of the writers' obsession with one character and her boobs

    I'll defend Enterprise to the extent that her personality was the complete opposite of her... ample endowment. Of course, the 'hot yet frigid woman' stereotype may have been in full effect there as it was with 7/9, but I liked both as characters and the breasts and skin-tight catsuits were a plus which I occasionally remembered might be sexist.

    i remember, during season 5 and 6 i think, of voyager going 'dude, there's 147 people on the ship, can i see something about one of them every so often please'

    We got a little of that when janeway took out 3 slackers in the Delta Flyer... Ugh. Never again.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by the fifth man View Post
    I really liked 7 of 9, so I would have to say that Voyager was better after she arrived.
    i like the "data" aspect of the series she added to voyager having someone smart around helped add to the story.

    but

    i'm also with sky the cat suit and the boobs got very old very fast for me. but i am female so it might just be me

  11. #11
    Major Alder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    I have to admit, Kes tended to annoy me, and the Kes/Neelix relationship gave me a bit of the shivers, though I couldn't quite put my finger on why...so when we lost Kes and gained Seven, I was quite happy. And I do like the Borgisodes.
    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    We got a little of that when janeway took out 3 slackers in the Delta Flyer... Ugh. Never again.
    The only good thing about that episode was the pre-credit sequence that wandered through the ship.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    I preferred STVOY after Seven joined the crew... Being female I don't care about the boobs thing, but I liked her character more than Kes. Kes always came across as wishy-washy and patronizing, whereas Seven added some much needed humour with her comments and matter of fact deadpan statements (eg 'comply' or 'guilt is irrelevant' etc)

    Also Seven opened the way for a lot of angsty Borg episodes and backstory with her featuring centrally. It may just be that I love the Borg and can't really get enough of them though
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alder View Post
    The only good thing about that episode was the pre-credit sequence that wandered through the ship.
    Yes, and I LOVED that scene. That's one of my favourite gimmicks in television shows. I loved it on that ep of voyager, and I loved it in the BSG2003 miniseries. It's been done once or twice on Stargate too, hasn't it?

    It's almost worth rewatching that mediocre episode just for that scene.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Kes added very little to the show. The first three seasons of Voyager were kind of... bad? Think about it... Elogium, Threshold, Favorite Son, Rise, etc.

    After Seven came on, Voyager did get 'better'. S4 and S5 were pretty good. Unfortunately, the writers seemed to focus way too much on Seven, The Doc and Janeway.

    I'd take both Seven and the later seasons of Voyager over Kes any day.

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by x Varda x View Post
    Seven added some much needed humour with her comments and matter of fact deadpan statements (eg 'comply' or 'guilt is irrelevant' etc)
    Also Seven opened the way for a lot of angsty Borg episodes and backstory with her featuring centrally. It may just be that I love the Borg and can't really get enough of them though
    My favourite example of both of these would be the stormin' Borg double episode where Seven returns to the Borg and Janeway and co rescue her.

    The moment when Seven tells Janeway just where to shoot to disable the Borg Queen...and the Queen's moment of disbelief...and Seven's "Our thoughts are one." Yum.

  16. #16
    Captain Merlin1701's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    my fav episodes were Equinox and Hope and Fear. The character of Kes could have been alot better but they just kept the child like feeling.

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  17. #17
    Major Alder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1701 View Post
    my fav episodes were Equinox and Hope and Fear. The character of Kes could have been alot better but they just kept the child like feeling.
    Actually...you mentioning a 'child-like' thing with Kes makes me wonder if that was what I found so squicky about her relationship with Neelix...
    [Ponders...]

  18. #18
    Colonel nx01a's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin1701 View Post
    my fav episodes were Equinox and Hope and Fear.
    Hope and Fear... Where I got my nick.

  19. #19
    Captain Merlin1701's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alder View Post
    Actually...you mentioning a 'child-like' thing with Kes makes me wonder if that was what I found so squicky about her relationship with Neelix...
    [Ponders...]
    The character grew up through out the series, would have been nice if she stayed and became and doctor in her own right.

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    Hope and Fear... Where I got my nick.
    It was a great episode!

    I hoped for that episode to end differently. I would have liked to have seen the Dauntless hurtling towards Borg controlled space, Janeway and Seven storming the bridge and save the Dauntless from its fate, killing Arturis. The slipstream ability would have been destroyed for some reason refurbishing the vessel to give it a real Starfleet feel with warp drive.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Was Voyager better before or after 7 of 9?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydiver View Post
    I felt the same with enterprise's obsession with t'pol. I literally stopped watching the show because of the writers' obsession with one character and her boobs
    Blasphemy. T'pol had great breasts and the true crime would have been to ignore them

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