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    #16
    The ori would win easily imo, the wraith aren't even a threat to them. The Ori are much much more aggressive than the ancients were and also seem to be better tactical thinkers. Also the ancients in pegasus were split, they weren't a united force like everyone think, take 'the long goobye' for example, those two worlds were at war with each other, the ori are a united force.

    Yes it's true the wraith have vast numbers but not nearly as many as the ori have. They have an entire galaxy and probably about half the milkyway galaxy on their side and considering how much larger the milkyway is than pegasus I'd say those numbers far exceed that of the wraith. So in a ground battle the Ori will have superior numbers and technology on their side.

    Now ship battles, darts against the Ori raiders, my money's on the raiders, based on gateworld and wiki those ships have some kind of shielding, they have ori weaponary and are greater in size. I think darts would outnumber the ori raiders but it would take atleast half a dozen maybe more darts to take out a single raider, granted these are only assumptions as we haven't seen much of the Ori raiders.

    Now the big ships, the hive vs the ori warship, obviously one on one a hive doesn't stand a chance, infact I'd say only 10 against 1 will the wraith be victorious. Yes hive ships are massive, based on what I've seen ori warships are about 2/3's the size of a hive but the Ori warships have much greater shielding that the wraith would have to beat down alot in order to do damage. Also we don't known the material the actual ships are made out of, if it's the same as the material used in the supergate then it's hull will be tougher than even a hives. Wraith weapons seem quite good but not nearly enough to beat an Ori warship, the beam would take out a hive in atleast 2 shots I reckon and that isn't even counting the secondary fire which is much more rapid than wraith weapons and probably on par in terms of effectiveness (taking out a ha'tak in about 5 shots).

    Now all the hive ships in pegasus against all the ori warships in the milkyway ofcourse the wraith would win, 60 hives against 3 warships. However the main Ori fleet isn't even here yet, they have dozens and dozens of more ships in their galaxy, all they'd need to do is send maybe 10 of those ships though a supergate and the wraith would be overwhelmed. On all fronts the wraith can't win, infact logically no other race we know of (including Asurans) would be able to overwhelm the Ori, they're the ultimate enemy with greater numbers and technology than any other.
    Last edited by kirmit; 18 October 2006, 04:53 AM.

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      #17
      Originally posted by kirmit View Post
      The ori would win easily imo, the wraith aren't even a threat to them. The Ori are much much more aggressive than the ancients were and also seem to be better tactical thinkers. Also the ancients in pegasus were split, they weren't a united force like everyone think, take 'the long goobye' for example, those two worlds were at war with each other, the ori are a united force.
      I don't think Phebes and I can't even remember the guy's name were Ancients though, actually i think it's stated they are not.

      Yes it's true the wraith have vast numbers but not nearly as many as the ori have. They have an entire galaxy and probably about half the milkyway galaxy on their side and considering how much larger the milkyway is than pegasus I'd say those numbers far exceed that of the wraith. So in a ground battle the Ori will have superior numbers and technology on their side.
      In a ground...battle. Now vs normal Ori troops? (Not a Prior) I think the wraith have the advantage, including numbers in this, with each hive ship carrying thousands of wraith, which are basically super human, they take a incredible amount of firepower to kill (ref: "The Defiant One")

      Now ship battles, darts against the Ori raiders, my money's on the raiders, based on gateworld and wiki those ships have some kind of shielding, they have ori weaponary and are greater in size. I think darts would outnumber the ori raiders but it would take atleast half a dozen maybe more darts to take out a single raider, granted these are only assumptions as we haven't seen much of the Ori raiders.
      This is a snippit of information from Wikipedia.

      The Ori are essentially the same race as the Ancients. However, the two groups split millions of years ago to avoid a war. Thus, the Ori's technology is as advanced as the Ancients. As a body, the Ori are completely Ascended, and they often use this to further enhance the effects of their technology. Overall, all of their efforts, including their technology, are for the purpose of garnering worshippers. For every person who donates his or her free will to the Ori, via an extremely complex metaphysical process, the Ori gain power, and hope to wipe out the Ancients.
      I don't think it's as hard to take out a raider..

      Now the big ships, the hive vs the ori warship, obviously one on one a hive doesn't stand a chance, infact I'd say only 10 against 1 will the wraith be victorious. Yes hive ships are massive, based on what I've seen ori warships are about 2/3's the size of a hive but the Ori warships have much greater shielding that the wraith would have to beat down alot in order to do damage. Also we don't known the material the actual ships are made out of, if it's the same as the material used in the supergate then it's hull will be tougher than even a hives. Wraith weapons seem quite good but not nearly enough to beat an Ori warship, the beam would take out a hive in atleast 2 shots I reckon and that isn't even counting the secondary fire which is much more rapid than wraith weapons and probably on par in terms of effectiveness (taking out a ha'tak in about 5 shots).
      I'm a little skeptical, about it taking 10 Wraith HIVE Ships, to take out a single warship. doing a bit more reading from wikipedia, i say 2 or 3 ships would take on a ori ship, for one thing.

      The shields are ultra weak right after firing their main cannon, now we know wraith ships can lay down a incredible wall of firepower when needed(ref: the seige part 2) i think it's a matter on who's tactically smarter, as the wraith ships got alot stronger towards the end of the ancient/wraith war.

      I can see 10 cruisers != 1 Ori battleship, but not Hive ships.

      Now all the hive ships in pegasus against all the ori warships in the milkyway ofcourse the wraith would win, 60 hives against 3 warships. However the main Ori fleet isn't even here yet, they have dozens and dozens of more ships in their galaxy, all they'd need to do is send maybe 10 of those ships though and the wraith would be overwhelmed. On all fronts the wraith can't win, infact logically no other race we know of (including Asurans) would be able to overwhelm the Ori, they're the ultimate enemy with greater numbers and technology than any other.

      I don't think it's so simple, the wraith have the uncanny ability to adapt VERY quickly, even going as so far as finding counters to technology they've never encounted, like the Asgard transporter tech. and forget the fact if Wraith boarded the ori ships in MASS numbers.

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        #18
        Originally posted by kharaa View Post
        I don't think Phebes and I can't even remember the guy's name were Ancients though, actually i think it's stated they are not.
        Exactly so the whole Galaxy were not ancients, and would not of all been united, though we could see their technology was nearly as or on par with ancients.

        Originally posted by kharaa View Post
        In a ground...battle. Now vs normal Ori troops? (Not a Prior) I think the wraith have the advantage, including numbers in this, with each hive ship carrying thousands of wraith, which are basically super human, they take a incredible amount of firepower to kill (ref: "The Defiant One")
        Like I've said with the numbers, the wraith will not outnumber the combined ori forces of their galaxy and of what they've converted in the Milkyway, if the Ori knew the wraith were coming they'd train more warriors and equip them. In terms of the wraith resiliance well we've seen ori staff blast does not act as a normal staff blast, it seems to do more internal damage before causing the body to shut down.

        Originally posted by kharaa View Post
        This is a snippit of information from Wikipedia.
        No it wasn't

        Originally posted by kharaa View Post
        I don't think it's as hard to take out a raider..
        If they do have the suggested shielding then yes it will be however like I said we haven't seen enough of them to give a clear assumption.



        Originally posted by kharaa View Post
        I'm a little skeptical, about it taking 10 Wraith HIVE Ships, to take out a single warship. doing a bit more reading from wikipedia, i say 2 or 3 ships would take on a ori ship, for one thing.

        The shields are ultra weak right after firing their main cannon, now we know wraith ships can lay down a incredible wall of firepower when needed(ref: the seige part 2) i think it's a matter on who's tactically smarter, as the wraith ships got alot stronger towards the end of the ancient/wraith war.

        I can see 10 cruisers != 1 Ori battleship, but not Hive ships.
        If the Ori shields are anywhere close to the Atlantis shield which I think they are it would take hours maybe even days for 3 hives to drain them. In which time the ori beam can take out the hives in 2 maybe 3 shots whilst the secondary fire takes care of crucial weak points like the dart bays. About the fluctuation in the shields, that's what it is a fluctuation they don't get ultra weak and isn't even nearly even time for any blasts to get through, that's why the team suggested beaming but as the wraith don't seem to be able to do this they wouldn't be able to take out the ship.

        Originally posted by kharaa View Post
        I don't think it's so simple, the wraith have the uncanny ability to adapt VERY quickly, even going as so far as finding counters to technology they've never encounted, like the Asgard transporter tech. and forget the fact if Wraith boarded the ori ships in MASS numbers.
        For the wraith to board them then shields would have to be drained and like I said them won't get the time to do that.

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          #19
          Wraith have superior numbers/military strength overall, but Orii ahve ascended knwoledge & superior tehnology; so would have to say the Orii hands down - although we still don't enough about both races to say whom would win indefinately (although i reckon the Wraith would hurt them a hell of alot & go down fighting unto the last individual warrior before being defeated!). . .

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            #20
            Originally posted by boberth2o View Post
            There is one the other hand the ancients in the avalon galaxy could have become more advanced before they totally acended, hell for all we know the ori battle ships could be way more advanced than the ancient battleships in the Pegasus galaxy, even resistant against drones.
            Well I'm not sure about that The Ori ha e got to have reason to stay away from earth and it might be the drones on earth they might still think we still have it runing like the rest of the galaxy. Besides why would the anicnets build ships impervous to drones when only ancients can run the drones.

            As for the fight the Wraith would win in a fight against the Milky way Ori ships but as for a all-in-war battle it would last a long-long-long time but the Ori would get sick of it and use there power to end it then earth would be more ready for the ori army.
            Come see Kingomon's Stargate stories about:
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            new enemy of the Ori
            At: http://www.stargate-sg1.hu/fanfiction/

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              #21
              Originally posted by kirmit View Post
              Exactly so the whole Galaxy were not ancients, and would not of all been united, though we could see their technology was nearly as or on par with ancients.
              Uh.. i don't think anyone ever said the entire galexy was ancients... infact, i know it's stated many times through out SG that the ancients seeded other worlds.



              Like I've said with the numbers, the wraith will not outnumber the combined ori forces of their galaxy and of what they've converted in the Milkyway, if the Ori knew the wraith were coming they'd train more warriors and equip them. In terms of the wraith resiliance well we've seen ori staff blast does not act as a normal staff blast, it seems to do more internal damage before causing the body to shut down.
              that's a big if.



              No it wasn't
              actually, it was.
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ori_technology_in_Stargate

              after reading my post over, read the bottem quote, i should of put it in "spoiler" or something else to discern it from the other quotes of yours



              If they do have the suggested shielding then yes it will be however like I said we haven't seen enough of them to give a clear assumption
              no argument here.





              If the Ori shields are anywhere close to the Atlantis shield which I think they are it would take hours maybe even days for 3 hives to drain them. In which time the ori beam can take out the hives in 2 maybe 3 shots whilst the secondary fire takes care of crucial weak points like the dart bays. About the fluctuation in the shields, that's what it is a fluctuation they don't get ultra weak and isn't even nearly even time for any blasts to get through, that's why the team suggested beaming but as the wraith don't seem to be able to do this they wouldn't be able to take out the ship.
              this is another big if.



              For the wraith to board them then shields would have to be drained and like I said them won't get the time to do that.
              unknown, the wraith don't seem to have a problem kamakazing a large number of ships inorder to bring down a shield, the shields on a Ori cruiser are not anything like that of atlantis; IIRC Asgard shielding is based on ancient, which the wraith are able to bring down in a matter of minutes, from fire from 2 ships.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Pogo01 View Post
                We still have no idea how the Ori shield is powered. From what I see its powered from what looks like a mini-ZPM.
                ....actually, no. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ori are using their ascended knowledge to finalize the Arcturus project, in which case, that's a very bad thing.
                http://www.change.gov

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by rarocks24 View Post
                  ....actually, no. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ori are using their ascended knowledge to finalize the Arcturus project, in which case, that's a very bad thing.
                  arcturas is impossible on our plane of exsistance, even if the ori themselves are not confined to our laws their tech is so the arcturus project is impossible without direct intervention somrthing the ori cannot do...

                  Uh.. i don't think anyone ever said the entire galexy was ancients... infact, i know it's stated many times through out SG that the ancients seeded other worlds.
                  the entire galaxy was ancient controlled, like colonies if you like...and the humans of pegasus were nurtured technologically by the ancients anyway...

                  either way over the course of 100 years the wraith starting from a most a handful of worlds overwhelmed and conquered the ancients...

                  If the Ori shields are anywhere close to the Atlantis shield which I think they are it would take hours maybe even days for 3 hives to drain them. In which time the ori beam can take out the hives in 2 maybe 3 shots whilst the secondary fire takes care of crucial weak points like the dart bays. About the fluctuation in the shields, that's what it is a fluctuation they don't get ultra weak and isn't even nearly even time for any blasts to get through, that's why the team suggested beaming but as the wraith don't seem to be able to do this they wouldn't be able to take out the ship.
                  your assumption on the ori shields are unfounded,to say their standard shields are on par with the most powerful shield we've every seen is a huge if without direct evidence and the relatively small bombardment the ori ships have withstood isn't all that impressive and oneill could take it...

                  It would take quite a few shots from the ori canon to destroy a hive, it takes multiple to shops to destroy a couple hundred foot of mountain much less several kilometres of hive ship which has thick incredably hard armor...
                  Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Buba uognarf View Post

                    the entire galaxy was ancient controlled, like colonies if you like...and the humans of pegasus were nurtured technologically by the ancients anyway...

                    either way over the course of 100 years the wraith starting from a most a handful of worlds overwhelmed and conquered the ancients...
                    Exactly! thank you, that's my entire point.



                    your assumption on the ori shields are unfounded,to say their standard shields are on par with the most powerful shield we've every seen is a huge if without direct evidence and the relatively small bombardment the ori ships have withstood isn't all that impressive and oneill could take it...

                    It would take quite a few shots from the ori canon to destroy a hive, it takes multiple to shops to destroy a couple hundred foot of mountain much less several kilometres of hive ship which has thick incredably hard armor...
                    ahah! I had forgotten this little tidbit of information, yes the armor on a wraith hive ship, is very... very.. strong, which I would assume is why they don't bother with shield technology.

                    the only bombardment i remember on an ori ship was by the hatak class ships, and compaired to like all the other ships.. they suck. lol

                    the hive ship is also the largest and one of the most well armed ships EVER constructed, only surpassed by the ancient city ships.

                    which is why in my opinion the wraith would probably win.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by kharaa View Post
                      Uh.. i don't think anyone ever said the entire galexy was ancients... infact, i know it's stated many times through out SG that the ancients seeded other worlds.
                      So then they wouldn't of been united and fell to the wraith one by one, the Ori though are a united galaxy, a much greater force.

                      Originally posted by kharaa View Post
                      I said in my original post I used wiki as a source but it isn't a direct quote

                      Originally posted by kharaa View Post
                      unknown, the wraith don't seem to have a problem kamakazing a large number of ships inorder to bring down a shield, the shields on a Ori cruiser are not anything like that of atlantis; IIRC Asgard shielding is based on ancient, which the wraith are able to bring down in a matter of minutes, from fire from 2 ships.
                      How is their shielding unlike the Atlantis kind? if anything it should be stronger as it doesn't have as much mass to cover and they are using an obviously very powerful powersource. The Ori are atleast on par with the Lantians, I stress atleast because many think they surpass them, so it stands to reason their shielding would be just as good.

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by kirmit View Post
                        How is their shielding unlike the Atlantis kind? if anything it should be stronger as it doesn't have as much mass to cover and they are using an obviously very powerful powersource. The Ori are atleast on par with the Lantians, I stress atleast because many think they surpass them, so it stands to reason their shielding would be just as good.
                        I would assume the size of the shield generator and the amount of power put out by 3 ZPMs. the reason the shield is so strong on atlantis, is the size of the systems, the City ship are the largest mega capital ships in the universe ATM(that we know of, of course.) my point is, they said the ancients could take a hive ship one on one, now from my guess from the ships Aurora and Orion, that those ships main weapon were the drones, which are a super weapon.

                        so it's not unreasonable to guess, that the wraith would be in a slightly better position, as that main cannon is powerful indeed, but i would put it on the level with a Tollen Ion cannon, but it isn't a drone system.

                        yes you are right stated by that article i posted from wiki, they are on par with the ancients, this is my point their shields are not infallible, and people assume to highly of their weapons, because it's happening in the SG1 universe, where the most powerful things are the asgard or the goa'uld.

                        The Haktak is a wimp compaired to a Ori ship or a Wraith ship.

                        as mentioned in a post above, it took SEVERAL shots to vaporize a section of mountain, which is dirt, rock.. organic matter.

                        it would take ALOT more then just 2 shots to vaporize that hull armor on a wraith hive ship.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by kharaa View Post
                          as mentioned in a post above, it took SEVERAL shots to vaporize a section of mountain, which is dirt, rock.. organic matter.

                          it would take ALOT more then just 2 shots to vaporize that hull armor on a wraith hive ship.
                          We don't know what that mountain was made from, it was afterall ancient built, so most likely wasn't simply rock.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by kirmit View Post
                            We don't know what that mountain was made from, it was afterall ancient built, so most likely wasn't simply rock.
                            Touche, but we know that atleast the wraith hive ships(which i mention again are the second largest ship ever constructed, the largest if you decided not to count the City ships) will be able to take a number of hits then. there's alot of armor there.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by kharaa View Post
                              Touche, but we know that atleast the wraith hive ships(which i mention again are the second largest ship ever constructed, the largest if you decided not to count the City ships) will be able to take a number of hits then. there's alot of armor there.
                              I'm not sure about that, the Ori beam bascially looks the same as the beam that came out of the ancient satellite and that took out a hive in a single shot.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by kharaa View Post
                                and even in the prime, with the ancients at their full power (where they controlled most of the galexy) and the populations of worlds were BRIMMING.

                                The Wraith pushed them back over a hundred years, without really slowing down, because of numbers, now the entire pegasus galexy is not much more then a few low level or mid level civilizations here and there, because in the 10,000 years after the ancients left. how many cullings were there?

                                even the entire galexy militerized by the ancients wasn't enough.
                                I doubt very much that the Ancients had militarized Pegasus during their war with the Wraith. In the first place, that's really not their style--every benevolent advanced race we've seen so far absolutely rejects giving advanced technology to less-developed races. It should also be noted that their policy as ascended beings is to never interfere in the development of 'lowers', and that doesn't just come out of nowhere.

                                In the second place, in two and a half years in Pegasus, we have yet to find a planet that has advanced defensive or offensive technology. We've found several with protective technology, but never anything along the lines of say, drones or battlecruisers.

                                Thirdly, there's a big difference between arming people and leading them on a crusade. I really believe that there's no way the Ancients militarized Pegasus, but even on the off chance that they did, it really wouldn't be the same as an Ori-led war. I don't know if you've been paying attention to the news lately (or even read any history about crusades in our world), but people who believe they're doing things for their god(s) are usually willing to do some pretty extreme and distasteful things to ensure victory.
                                "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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