"Character Driven" "Character Driven" "Character Driven" "Character Driven"

[Bytor]

Personally, I'm getting tired of hearing how great shows are when they are supposedly 'Character Driven', also about how great SGU will be because of this.

Questions

1) What does 'character driven' mean to you personally?
2) Why is it the new fad?
3) How are SG1 and Atlantis NOT Character driven?
4) How will SGU be more Character Driven than the others
5) Why does one care if something is character driven? (as long as its a good show)

[jenks]

Most shows are character driven (or a balance), and always have been, it certainly isn't a new fad. To my knowledge the show will be more character driven than say Atlantis, but Atlantis was an adventure that was extremely plot driven, there wasn't as much time for characters with all that was going on, SGU won't be like that, I don't suppose there will be some grand epic story being told, it will be more about the people on the ship.

[Briangate78]

It's really all subjective and people's opinions. I thought the last 2 seasons of Stargate Atlantis were very character driven, and team focused. Especially Season 4. The Season 4 finale was so character driven it took every characters story and added fuel to the fire of the plot story.

Character driven to me just means they focus more eps or more of the single ep on the characters and how they are effected by the on-going story or plot. Perfect example, Weir, Teyla, and Carson. They were focused in Season 4 and are what drove a lot of the eps for season 4. Events like in BAMSR are really plot driven, imo.

Then you have eps like "Midway" which are both character and plot driven, imo.

[amforster]

I suppose the best shows have strongly developed characters that the viewer can identify with and/or like/hate with a certain intensity.

On that basis the following shows score highly (mainly star trek/stargate)

DS9, BSG, SG1, TNG, Terminator TSCC, Farscape ... even X files sort of... OH and firefly considering we barely knew thee. I am not including really old and/or obscure sci fi. oh and Doctor Who... Not sure about Babylon 5 as I never got into it.

These shows had characters that were severely underdeveloped or that were easy to dislike...

Voyager (Only liked stories that were about the doctor, the rest were boring and I hoped they would all die!), Atlantis (Severely underdeveloped), Enterprise (Who cares), Sliders (Didn't care whether he got home, hoped they would all die each ep)....

And then there is STORY ARC vs EPISODIC FORMAT... all of the above have "episodes" that are pretty much standalone. All of the above had some form of contiunity from ep to ep...

For the best massive story arcs -

SG1, DS9, BSG (Just one big episode in the early seasons, I am hoping they release an edited BSG marathon, e.g. edit all 4 seasons down to about 1 seasons worth of entertainment... would be massive!) Farscape was good in later seasons if not a bit silly... Terminator etc...

For complete lack of story arc -

TNG, Sliders

Doctor Who is a weird one. Most eps are like TNG in that they are problem of the week but it also has arcs across series etc.

So what will Universe be like?

My bet is it will start of with in fighting and getting to grips with their situation. Then it might explore how they react to external threats (whatever they are). There will definetely be ARCS in the show but possibly not until the second season. Remeber DS9 didn't have proper arcs until the last 3-4 seasons!! Half way through... SG1 didn't really have arcs until Season2/3.

[jenks]

I wouldn't class Stargate or Star Trek as having relate-able characters in them, if anything I'd say they're about as far away from having those sorts of characters as you can get.

[Khentkawes]

My opinion on "character-driven"?

Basically a show can either be plot driven or character driven. Or it can be both.

Two basic criteria for a show to be considered "character-driven" (IMO):

1. In order for me to consider a show "character-driven" they need to spend time developing characters with distinct personalities, characters who are not just based on stereotypes. They can develop the characters through stand-alone character-development episodes, or slowly and subtly through moments intertwined with the plot (I prefer the latter option, or at least a mix of the two).

2. The characters can't just exist to serve the plot. The plot has to be propelled by the character's motives, and we have to see the characters change because of the what happens to them. Those changes in their characters will also impact the plot as the story moves forward. Basically, the plot should unravel in response to the motives/desires of the characters and because of their interaction with each other. Characters should act and cause things to happen, not just react to situations that are set up for them. I realize that's a fine line, but I think it's an important part of narrative theory.

For a non sci-fi example: NCIS is plot-driven. Now, don't get me wrong, NCIS has strong characters with distinct personalities (although they usually are pre-developed, and don't change all that much over the course of the show). But most episodes move forward because of the plot, and the characters are just there to make the plot more interesting (the exception being a few of their long plot arcs that were entirely propelled by the character's motivations... that would be character and plot driven).

Atlantis, IMO, was plot-driven. Stuff happened, but the characters' responses to what happened (and even to their own actions) weren't really explored. And although a few of the characters changed over time, I would say that most of them seem pretty much the same as they were in the beginning, at least to me.

SG1, IMO, was both character-driven and plot-driven, although there was definitely a greater emphasis placed on plot. The characters changed over time and the reacted differently in season 1 than they reacted in season 8, 9, or 10. In some cases, we do see character development driving the plot (I'm thinking specifically of Daniel's ascension/descension and Teal'c's attempt to free the Jaffa). Especially in the early seasons, we see distinct character motives that influence their actions. So I would say it was more character-driven than Atlantis, even though there were certainly times when they dropped the ball on the character development in favor of just dealing with the plot.

Now, if you want a much better example of a show that was equal parts plot-driven and character-driven, take a look at Farscape. Pretty much every major plot twist was rooted in character-development. Plot and character development were consistently woven together, so that they usually didn't have to slow down the plot in order to focus on the characters.

Please note that nowhere in my definition do I talk about "romance." That can be part of character-development, but romance does not automatically make a show "character-driven." Sometimes, romance is just another plot element and does nothing for the characters.

[DizzyDrea]

I think, as a general rule, most sci-fi is plot driven. SG-1 and SGA were originally conceived as plot driven action shows. Of course, the longer a show is on the air, the more they actually have to develop the characters, which is why you saw a lot more character pieces in the later years of SG-1 and more attention to it in SGA.

From what I've heard about SGU, the tag line kinda says it all: "Their only mission is survival." So definitely more focus on how the characters survive and get along in what is likely to be their worst nightmare. By default that means much more character focus. But, if they totally ignore the action aspect that the franchise is famous for, they'll lose a lot of SG faithful, so don't expect them to just forget they've got guns and how to use them.

I'm a big fan of CSI, which is very plot driven. But, after nine years, they've had to make sure the characters are fully realized, even though the character pieces are few and far between. They do most of the development work as the episodes unfold, so that the characters aren't the primary focus. No worrying about who's dating whom or whether so-and-so getting shot will affect his performance. It's dealt with in much more subtle ways.

Babylon 5, on the other hand, was very character driven. It had to be, because it was all about how the humans solve the biggest crisis of their lifetimes and make sure the galaxy doesn't blow up around them. The arcs were huge and involved, and sometimes it took a scorecard to keep it all straight, but it was truly entertaining and I couldn't wait for the next episode every week. If that's what SGU is going to be like, sign me up. If it turns into One Tree Hill or Gossip Girl, no thanks (no offense to anyone here who likes those shows).

[Commander of the USS Capricorn]

In Atlantis, I was disappointed at how Beckett didn't really need any coming to grips with the fact that he was

Spoiler:

a clone created by michael

In season 5, everyone pretty much acted like nothing happened.
Aiyden Ford didn't get enough time as a badguy/goodguy mix, which left me disappointed.
At the end of BAMSR, we think that weir has become a baddie. But in Ghost in the Machine, we find out that all she wants to do is

Spoiler:

ascend

The writers had time to go crazy developing these characters. But instead, they go as fast as they can to tuck these situations under the rug, so that we can forget about the possibility that atlantis couldve been character-driven

[pie eater general]

For me the distinction between a 'character driven' show and one that is 'plot driven' is that the former moulds it's plotlines around the actions and behaviour of it's characters while the latter allows it's characters to develop in the context of it's plotlines. To my mind a fairly fuzzy and rather arbitrary distinction, as 'character-driven' shows can have characters developing in new ways through twists and redirections in the plot (BSG final 5?) while character chemistry and interaction in 'plot driven' shows can turn an otherwise cliched or mediocre storyline into something far more special and memorable (several examples from SG1 and SGA spring to mind).

Or am I missing something?

[Eternal Density]

I think this means it won't be driven by the need to find the latest Ancient superweapon to defeat the latest ascended threat...

[PG15]

Enemy at the Gate was plot driven

The Shrine was character driven

That's my definition.

[Reiko]

In Atlantis, I was disappointed at how Beckett didn't really need any coming to grips with the fact that he was

Spoiler:

a clone created by michael

This isn't the SGA forum but I was quite peeved that they didn't develop on this either, especially as a big fan of the character. Instead, his s5 appearences were wasted on saving Keller and running around in the woods. I was kinda WTF WHY.

As to be on topic, Character Driven is in at the moment. And I like that very much.

[Briangate78]

Enemy at the Gate was plot driven

The Shrine was character driven

That's my definition.

I agree..

Just to give the last Season of SGA as an example..

Search and Rescue - Character Driven
The Seed - Plot Driven
Broken Ties - Character Driven
Daedalus Variations - Plot Driven
Ghost in the Machine - Character Driven
The Shrine - Character Driven
Whispers - Horribly Driven er I mean Plot Driven
The Queen - Character and plot driven
Tracker - Plot and character Driven
First Contact - Plot Driven
The Lost Tribe - Plot Driven
Outsiders - Plot Driven and some character
Inquisition - Character driven (was about the characters actions)
The Prodigal - Character Driven
Remnants - Character Driven
BrainStorm - Plot Driven
Infection - Plot driven
Identity - Plot Driven
Vegas - Character driven (all about Sheppard)
Enemy at the Gate -Plot Driven

*Well that is my opinion*

[kennythewraith]

I agree..

Just to give the last Season of SGA as an example..

Search and Rescue - Character Driven
The Seed - Plot Driven
Broken Ties - Character Driven
Daedalus Variations - Plot Driven
Ghost in the Machine - Character Driven
The Shrine - Character Driven
Whispers - Horribly Driven er I mean Plot Driven
The Queen - Character and plot driven
Tracker - Plot and character Driven
First Contact - Plot Driven
The Lost Tribe - Plot Driven
Outsiders - Plot Driven and some character
Inquisition - Character driven (was about the characters actions)
The Prodigal - Character Driven
Remnants - Character Driven
BrainStorm - Plot Driven
Infection - Plot driven
Identity - Plot Driven
Vegas - Character driven (all about Sheppard)
Enemy at the Gate -Plot Driven

*Well that is my opinion*

well i noticed something...the charcter driven episodes were almost all really really good and entertaining...while the plot drievn eps kinda were dissapointments,notable exceptions being infection,DV,First Contact and Lost Tribe.

im also dissapointed with the whole beckett situation...his coming back was great but they never touched on him being a clone really.

[Briangate78]

well i noticed something...the charcter driven episodes were almost all really really good and entertaining...while the plot drievn eps kinda were dissapointments,notable exceptions being infection,DV,First Contact and Lost Tribe.

im also dissapointed with the whole beckett situation...his coming back was great but they never touched on him being a clone really.

Beckett really had one or two good eps out of his 5 for my taste, so I know that feeling of dissapointment, When he came back in "The Kindred" that was an amazing episode but TPTB seemed to forget about that ep. They should of axed Keller and concentrate on Beckett's return.

Ok we are going off topic, lol.

Anyway, I hope SGU has more character eps, but I hope they have at least a main plot or story arc to feed off.