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  1. #1
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    Default Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Im new on here so bare with me as I wanted to chip in

    Heroes was an amazing program and for me in the early days; had a great story line and originality, but this season has been shocking. Take the last episode for instance, I was annoyed gravely when nathen didnt react to being pushed out the window, why didnt he fly back up grab Danko and and drop him to the ground?? or even why didnt HRG shoot, yet push him either?? simply, keeping the character alive was more important than fluidity and function.

    Terrible writing and unrealistic, it felt that it happenned to simply keep an already boring and stretched out story line; in this season going.

    If the writers would only go somewhere with the story?? stop bringing new "heroes" into the fold all the time (getting hard to remember everyone these days)

    The Patrelli's have lost their place only Nathen could remain if they let him have his powers back! Sylar makes the series hang onto something decent so shed his shackles and stop this crazy emotional journey hes been on thats boring us to tears

    Claire is frustrating and the writers are turning her screen time into a constant episode of Beverley Hills 90210!! pity they cant "kill her off" lol.

    Heroes could be once again great, nay! amazing. Solid direction and writing is needed to take everything back to its core of good v evil, develop the characters own personas and skills and less new characters. Oh and no more heroes losing super powers its grosely irritating..

  2. #2
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Sorry Z, but each of these topics seems to have been discussed before. Many to an extreme extent.

  3. #3
    Second Lieutenant jrd231's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    After the last episode I can't watch this show anymore. It's become laughable. They made up some crazy rule that Parkman couldn't use his power if alarms were going off a month ago and then last episodes he uses them while alarms are going off. They just pick and choose what rules they want to ignore each week and then act as if they never ignored them. They've changed the way almost everything worked. They come out and made statements about what they would never do then they did them anyway.

    If you're in the mood for a comedy, Heroes is your best bet on TV these days.

  4. #4
    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd231 View Post
    After the last episode I can't watch this show anymore. It's become laughable. They made up some crazy rule that Parkman couldn't use his power if alarms were going off a month ago and then last episodes he uses them while alarms are going off. They just pick and choose what rules they want to ignore each week and then act as if they never ignored them. They've changed the way almost everything worked. They come out and made statements about what they would never do then they did them anyway.

    If you're in the mood for a comedy, Heroes is your best bet on TV these days.
    Personally, I think this Volume, for the most part, has been superb. I think Heroes is getting itself back on the right track.

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  5. #5
    Mighty Avenger - Moderator Madwelshboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd231 View Post
    After the last episode I can't watch this show anymore. It's become laughable. They made up some crazy rule that Parkman couldn't use his power if alarms were going off a month ago and then last episodes he uses them while alarms are going off. They just pick and choose what rules they want to ignore each week and then act as if they never ignored them. They've changed the way almost everything worked. They come out and made statements about what they would never do then they did them anyway.

    If you're in the mood for a comedy, Heroes is your best bet on TV these days.
    If you were actually paying any attention, you would have noticed the difference in the two situations. In "Building 26", where Matt and Peter stormed building 26, it wasn't said that he point blank couldn't use his power but that the alarms would effect his concentration which he needed to continuously control individuals. While in the episode "Cold Snap" in which various characters escaped building 26, all Matt did was implant a thought into the men, he wasn't controlling them thus continuous concentration wasn't needed.

    Tho yes there are some inconstancy in the writing, but there are not as much as most people make out to be. Many of it are small newances that if you dont think about it, you dont notice it
    Last edited by Madwelshboy; April 1st, 2009 at 09:03 AM.

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant jrd231's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Madwelshboy View Post
    If you were actually paying any attention, you would have noticed the difference in the two situations. In "Building 26", where Matt and Peter stormed building 26, it wasn't said that he point blank couldn't use his power but that the alarms would effect his concentration which he needed to continuously control individuals. While in the episode "Cold Snap" in which various characters escaped building 26, all Matt did was implant a thought into the men, he wasn't controlling them thus continuous concentration wasn't needed.

    Tho yes there are some inconstancy in the writing, but there are not as much as most people make out to be. Many of it are small newances that if you dont think about it, you dont notice it
    Only in building 26 when the alarms went off Matt Parkman grabbed his head and was clearly in pain. The next time the alarms went off he was unaffected. It's poor writing. Here's a list.

    1. Peter was way too powerful for a hero. They changed the way his power works. Now he has to touch somebody and can only have one.

    2. Hiro was too powerful, so they took his power away.

    3. Sylar can now look at somebody and take their power, even if they are dead.

    4. Matt Parkman can now see the future? Hahah. Why?

    5. They specifically stated that Mohinder would NEVER have a power. He now has a power.

    6. Matt Parkman can't use his power when alarms are going off, which is incredibly stupid. But, sometimes he can.

    It's incredibly inconsistent.

  7. #7
    Mighty Avenger - Moderator Madwelshboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd231 View Post
    Only in building 26 when the alarms went off Matt Parkman grabbed his head and was clearly in pain. The next time the alarms went off he was unaffected. It's poor writing. Here's a list.

    1. Peter was way too powerful for a hero. They changed the way his power works. Now he has to touch somebody and can only have one.

    2. Hiro was too powerful, so they took his power away.

    3. Sylar can now look at somebody and take their power, even if they are dead.

    4. Matt Parkman can now see the future? Hahah. Why?

    5. They specifically stated that Mohinder would NEVER have a power. He now has a power.

    6. Matt Parkman can't use his power when alarms are going off, which is incredibly stupid. But, sometimes he can.


    It's incredibly inconsistent.
    1 & 2) So there powers were taken away - it was done in a logical manner. Peters power works differently?? well the original was natural and the current is synthetic - synthetic products and chemical emulate natural products but don't work in exactly the same way. Hiro is starting to get his powers back these nothing to say they wont completely return.

    3 & 4) power evolution/secondary mutation anybody?? in terms on Matt - Matt’s ability is to access the mind – or at least that’s how it started. But as he grew powerful and as Usutu opened it up more to the “dreamtime,” he began to access that same plane of consciousness that Isaac and Usutu drew from to paint. Power Evolution/Secondary Mutation doesn't have to be a logical natural progression. Never heard of Emma Frost - x-man telepath who's secondary ability was to turn into diamond??

    5) So they changed their mind? how can changing you mind be lazy writing? No film/TV ever has panned out the same as went it was originally conserved.

    6)explained in previous post

    Everyone seems to forget that Heroes was designed to emulates the aesthetic style and storytelling of American comic books. And that's what it dose. maybe its not the best way to tell a story in a tv show for a general aduiance, but it essential dose what it says on the tin.

  8. #8
    Second Lieutenant jrd231's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Madwelshboy View Post
    1 & 2) So there powers were taken away - it was done in a logical manner. Peters power works differently?? well the original was natural and the current is synthetic - synthetic products and chemical emulate natural products but don't work in exactly the same way. Hiro is starting to get his powers back these nothing to say they wont completely return.

    3 & 4) power evolution/secondary mutation anybody?? in terms on Matt - Matt’s ability is to access the mind – or at least that’s how it started. But as he grew powerful and as Usutu opened it up more to the “dreamtime,” he began to access that same plane of consciousness that Isaac and Usutu drew from to paint. Power Evolution/Secondary Mutation doesn't have to be a logical natural progression. Never heard of Emma Frost - x-man telepath who's secondary ability was to turn into diamond??

    5) So they changed their mind? how can changing you mind be lazy writing? No film/TV ever has panned out the same as went it was originally conserved.

    6)explained in previous post

    Everyone seems to forget that Heroes was designed to emulates the aesthetic style and storytelling of American comic books. And that's what it dose. maybe its not the best way to tell a story in a tv show for a general aduiance, but it essential dose what it says on the tin.
    1 and 2 - They always change their mind. They never thought it through. It's inconsistent. They change powers like I change my underwear.

    3 and 4 - What does Matt Parkman being able to read minds have anything to do with seeing the future? There is zero correlation between the two. What's next, telekinesis? It's more likely than being able to see the future. So Sylar doesn't have to kill anybody to take their power? How conveinant to the plot. First, he wants Elle's power, but he likes her. Ok, so lets say he can take a power without killing anybody. Ok, he needs to make people believe he's dead, so we'll just say he can take an ability from a dead person without actually looking at their brain. The entire basis of Sylar was that he needed to view the brain, but he doesn't really have to. They just change things as they see fit.

    5. Changing their mind as often as they do isn't lazy writing, it's inconsistent. They just make up the rules and change them as they go along, with total disregard to show canon. Writers can change their mind, but they just change their mind to suit the current situation on the show.

    6. Matt Parkman not being able to use his power while alarms go off is absolutely laughable. You can't deny the fact that alarms were going off the last time he used his power and it didn't affect him.

    You can defend Heroes all you want, but the bottom line is that it's laughable. It's absurd what they have done to show canon. They should have never made Peter and Hiro so powerful if they didn't intend to follow through on it. They realized way too late that heroes are never that powerful, only villians are.

  9. #9
    Lieutenant Colonel Descent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd231 View Post
    1 and 2 - They always change their mind. They never thought it through. It's inconsistent. They change powers like I change my underwear.
    Is there some golden rule that says they can't mess with their powers every once and awhile?

    You can defend Heroes all you want, but the bottom line is that it's laughable. It's absurd what they have done to show canon. They should have never made Peter and Hiro so powerful if they didn't intend to follow through on it. They realized way too late that heroes are never that powerful, only villians are.
    Bottom line is: that's your opinion. So please don't force it upon people and pretend that it is fact. I agree that they have been inconsistent with many things this season but Bryan Fuller seems to be taking the series back in the right direction.

    Heroes are never that powerful? Hmm... ever heard of Superman? Nothing can stop that guy.

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  10. #10
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Descent View Post
    Is there some golden rule that says they can't mess with their powers every once and awhile?
    As I tell my wife : Changing your mind every once in a while is okay, but changing it every hour is being insane.

    Jrd's point may be that power changing is happening too fast for his taste. I tend to agree. Giving Sylar/Peter a ton of powers then _afterward_ deciding those characters need limits is a good example.

  11. #11
    Lieutenant Colonel Descent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroPoint View Post
    Jrd's point may be that power changing is happening too fast for his taste. I tend to agree. Giving Sylar/Peter a ton of powers then _afterward_ deciding those characters need limits is a good example.
    But... it's good that they are limiting Peter and Hiro's powers. It shows that they realize there is a problem. Peter's power was getting hard to keep track off as they constantly changed how it works without bringing it up. Was he able to suck in powers from around him or what? Was it evolving (like Matt's power)? It seemed to change from episode to episode.

    I like the way it was in Season 1 where he had to "remember" the person to use it. The way it is now though is a step in the right direction.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    First season was really great, but now its just horrible. I've stop watching 5 weeks ago, but then watched 5 recorded episodes in a row (its a bit more enjoyable that way ). For me this show is a head shaking moment after another! 5 weeks ago I stop watching in the middle of an episode, I was too angry at the bad writing, lol. This show copy the 4400 storylines and can't even do a good job at it.

    I think Tim Kring said in an interview that this Heroes shows at first was more about introducing new heroes every other week. Then they decided to go for a more serialized format. I think the guy was clearly more comfortable in the new heroes format like in the first season.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    I suppose I'm in the middle here. I got into the show a couple of months ago, and thought it was great: lots of stories going on at the same time, fun characters, and the show was just entertaining without wanting to be more. That said, a couple of things that have been bugging me since the great first season ended:

    - With all the different storylines crammed into one episode, there was lots of stuff going on, but not actually much happening, but that's a good thing imo: you get to see your favourite characters almost each ep and get to see where their stories go, so you go see the next episode. And the next. And the one after that, etc. That's one of the things they shouldn't have changed, because right now, it's becoming rather dull, although things have improved since mr. Fuller's returned. Let's hope they return to the season 1&2 way of storytelling.

    - Mohinder's power... Why did he need that? His story was quite entertaining in volume 3, but imo, his power should've just been taken by Arthur, or he should've just found a cure. No need for him to have super-strength, this season it was never ever needed plot-wise. He should've just been the powerless scientist.

    - Peter and Hiro's power. This is a good thing they have changed, because they were waaaay OP compared to the others (and no, Sylar doesn't count, your villain needs to be OP to make the show interesting). Peter struggling with how to handle his powers in season 1 worked to balance things a bit, but if they continued that road, people would've screamed instead 'ffs, does this moron still doesn't know how to handle his powers?'. It also became a pain in the ass to remember which powers he had absorbed. So the logical solution was to nerf Peter & Hiro's powers, which worked for me, nothing inconsistent about that.

    - Matt Parkman. He can paint the future. Riiiiight. This was just stupid, it wasn't even needed plot-wise. Unless they come up with something where it makes absolutely sense for him to have this power, and they do something good with it, I want to forget this has ever happened.

    - Hiro&Ando going to India. Why? Because Matt painted it. What did they do there? Nothing really, their storyline could've been scrapped and nothing would've been different.

    - Matt & the alarm: I thought he couldn't use his power then because he was directly controlling the guys, so he also heard the alarm in their head, which gives you a big headache, so he couldn't concentrate anymore. But it wasn't ever mentioned why exactly he couldn't use his powers with the alarm, so you kinda had to figure it out for yourself. Not good imo, the writers need to set up clear restrictions for the powers (like killing a regenerater if you stick something in the back of the head, or by delivering a headshot) to avoid things seeming inconsistent.
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  14. #14
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Descent View Post
    But... it's good that they are limiting Peter and Hiro's powers. It shows that they realize there is a problem. Peter's power was getting hard to keep track off as they constantly changed how it works without bringing it up. Was he able to suck in powers from around him or what? Was it evolving (like Matt's power)? It seemed to change from episode to episode.

    I like the way it was in Season 1 where he had to "remember" the person to use it. The way it is now though is a step in the right direction.
    Agreed in that it is good to limit Hiro/Peter, but if writing were decent they'd have thought about it _before_ making them too powerful. Bad writing hurts the show.

  15. #15
    Airman Nero_200's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    i think this show is beyond saving its like the writers dont realy know what to do with the story no more and just keep repeating the season 1 storyline over and over with a few tweaks lol.

    i think the show kinda imploded on itself by not knowing how to limit its characters powers and also which characters to kill off or focus more on. and the whole going back and forth through time scenario is a recipe for disaster if not done properly and its constantly used as a way to create or progress the plot(which gets really old and creates plot holes).
    i may be wrong and season three's second part may be good but i only watched the 1st 13 episodes of the season and i laughed at the ridiculousness of arthur petrelli's powers.

    to bottom line it all the show should have stuck to its strengths and focused more on the characters and how they dealt with their abilities rather than the whole orginizations nonsense or the whole save the world ploy(which is done to death).

    i mean this is just what i think based on what ive seen so if you think im wrong or being harsh lets discuss it but ill say the 1st season was the best while 2nd while not as good was still better than than what season 3 has to offer.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Nero_200 View Post

    to bottom line it all the show should have stuck to its strengths and focused more on the characters and how they dealt with their abilities rather than the whole orginizations nonsense or the whole save the world ploy(which is done to death).
    I agree. The show real strenghts was when it focused more on the characters and how they dealt with their abilities. They could easily have done it with the fugitive storyline, oh well...

  17. #17
    Second Lieutenant jrd231's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    Quote Originally Posted by Descent View Post
    Is there some golden rule that says they can't mess with their powers every once and awhile?



    Bottom line is: that's your opinion. So please don't force it upon people and pretend that it is fact. I agree that they have been inconsistent with many things this season but Bryan Fuller seems to be taking the series back in the right direction.

    Heroes are never that powerful? Hmm... ever heard of Superman? Nothing can stop that guy.
    There is no golden rule that says you can't change things, but they do it whenever they want to suit whatever situation a character is in. They do it way too often.

    I'm not forcing my opinion on anybody. And typically heroes aren't all powerful, it's useless for the plot. What makes for good suspense is the overwhelming possibility of doom because the villian is so powerful which leads to you wondering how the heroes will defeat him. In the case of Heroes, Peter and Hiro are so powerful, it doesn't matter how powerful a villian is, Peter or Hiro can easily match them.

    And in the case of Superman, they gave him a giant Achilles heel in kryptonite.

    After watching Monday's episode (4/20) it is still extremely apparent that the writers don't know what do to with this show. They keep recycling Sylar's personality every 6 episodes. He's a killer who wants power, then he is lost and is unsure of himself and how he feels. Then he's a killer bent on acquiring more power, then he doesn't know anymore. Then he does it all over again. Why can't they just finally pick a direction for his character? He has been my favorite character since season 1, but at this point he just needs to be killed off for good.

  18. #18
    Captain marty2006's Avatar
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    Default Re: Heroes, Writing, Standards & Future

    I feel raped by this show now. Once one of the best shows on tv and within the course of one season has become an abortion.

    Nuff said.

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