McKay/Keller - Impact on SGA

[KatG]

Since the McKay/Keller pairing has the unique distinction of being the only long standing canon relationship between series regulars on SGA, and as such played a larger role in the overall series (as opposed to canon relationships between recurring characters), it's impact on the show as a whole, is a valid topic for discussion.

This thread therefore will be a General Discussion thread, open to ALL POVs, and will include aspects such as the writing, development and overall execution of the ship. The relationship's impact on the tone of the series, as well as its impact on the other characters, are also a point for discussion.

This thread will NOT include bashing of either character just for the sake of bashing. It will also NOTinclude squeeing over, or pic spamming of, the pairing. It is a given that some folks just do not like one or the other character, and that some do like one or both, they just don’t like them together. And then some adore both of the characters and the idea that they are together. So all members are asked to be mindful of each other's personal preferences in that respect.

This will NOT be a *Ship or Anti-Ship* thread and if it begins to read like one, the thread will retire for a break for clean up. It is a discussion thread of ALL opinions. That means that there will be those posting who feel that McKay/Keller added to Season 5, as well as those who feel that McKay/Keller detracted from Season 5. The purpose here is to share points of view, not to convert the masses. Not everyone will share your opinion, please DO NOT take it personally if they don't.

Just to reiterate, this is a General Discussion thread open to ALL POVs. This means there will be opinions that you will agree with and there will be opinions you will not agree with. As long as either one is stated respectfully, and meets the guidelines above, it will be allowed.

If you don't agree with a poster's opinion and can't discuss it in a respectful manner, use the scroll bar and move past it, or if you simply cannot tolerate it, use the ignore feature provided by the forum. However, we hope that you will try to find a way to express your opinion in a way that invites others to discuss it with you and that you in turn will try to find a way to discuss another's opinion that may be different from yours.

[KatG]

Just some questions to help get the thread started. Feel free to add your own in line with the opening post.

In what way do you feel that the relationship between McKay/Keller impacted the show overall?

How did it affect the other characters?

How did it affect the characters of McKay and Keller?

Is there anything that the writers could have done differently?

Were you pleased with the way the relationship was developed?

What might the writers have done differently?



Now go forth and discuss.

[Linda06]

Well let's see...First of all i'm a shipper, just not of this pairing

I don't like either Rodney or Keller so seeing them shipped was very bad for me, there was also absolutely no chemistry between them IMO, even the romantic scenes looked very awkward and cringeworthy for me and it also looked awkward for Rodney and Jennifer, they didn't look comfortable at all in those scenes.

I think there was a lot of things wrong in S5 and the McKay/Keller relationship was just one of them, I also blame this relatyionship for the serious lack of team moments this season, also Teyla and Ronon were pretty much pushed to the background for most of the second half of the season and although I don't think this relationship is the only thing that caused this to happen it was one of them.We also got one of the worse eps of the entire series in BS because they wanted a McKay/Keller ep. They both look like they'd rather crawl out of their own skins than do romantic scenes together *shrugs*

I just think they are so mismatched in ain't even funny

I also think this whole relationship was detriment to Keller as a character, instead of shipping Keller off the writers should have been more focused into developing her and maybe she wouldn't have been so disliked by so many people. We all know how bad the writers do romance on stargate so they should just leave it well enough alone

This is all just my opinion and not fact

[Mirjam]

I honestly never picked up on any chemistry between Keller and McKay. At first, I thought it was just me who was surprised by the love confession in The Shrine, but having taken a look at the forums, I guess I am not alone in my surprise.

I am not angry with the writers for finally pursuing some romance on the show, I am just shocked that of all the wonderful possibilities, they chose this one. I mean, Teyla was pregnant, couldn't they have developed a beautiful romance between her and Ronon or Sheppard?

Wouldn't a guy half the age of Rodney be better suited for Keller? And I also quite liked Katie Brown as a match for Rodney; with Keller, he gets uncomfortable and whiny, whereas he becomes quite nice when he's with Katie.

Of all the wonderful options out there, they went with this one - and to be honest, I think the amount of screen time dedicated to this pairing is a waste of time. Since they have no chemistry, they are not very interesting to watch.

What happened to the Sheppard/McKay banter we all came to love? It seems friendship and team building got pushed out of the way due to making this relationship known to the watchers.

I don't think McKeller has done Stargate any good, though it is nice to know that a romance is possible in science fiction. Who knows, maybe in SGU - they'll find two people who are actually worth watching together

[katikatnik]

The McKeller ship was the only thing that made me actually ffwd through an episode of SGA. I could barely watch Brainstorm because of it and I breezed through their obviously painful attempts to look like a couple - and no, this isn't me bashing, in interviews with TVGuide.com both actors stated that it was painful for them to play lovers and that they felt incredibly awkward. And it showed. I felt like watching siblings kiss. As David Hewlett stated, the writers basically came to them and told them "You are lovers now." and both David and Jewell went "Huh?"

And that's my biggest problem with this pairing - their relationship developed in huge leaps that made no sense. Even the actors playing these characters didn't notice a romance in development, after all. They went from a beer to Rodney asking about how Jennifer felt to a proclamation of love. We were told, not shown that they were in love and I just didn't see it. And the fact that the writers were not able to glue their love affair and the team together, their romance basically pushed team stories into the background, made it even more unbelievable for me. I didn't even recognize the second half of S5, it felt like watching a completely different show than in the last 4.5 years.

Also, it didn't help that Martin Gero basically admitted that he wanted the geek to get the prom queen, that he actually played out his own geeky fantasies to the detriment of the whole show. I just couldn't believe that the writers managed to run my favorite show to the ground in less than a season...

I admit freely, I'm not a shipper. I'm content with hints. That way everybody can see what they want and everybody is content.

[jelgate]

My problem with McKeller is the same problem I have with every other Stargate ship. Lack of development. TPTB just do not know how to develop a relationship. They seem to always go from Point A to Point D of a relationship without showing the gradual development of two people caring for each other. I see this problem in McKeller, JT(Sorry Linda), and and yes even jack/sam. And that is why I don't like McKeller. Things happened way too fast and their was no development of the ship. We didn't even know in canon that they cared about each other until (TLM=AU) The Shrine and then suddenly in BS they are dating. Way too fast for my taste. And it has nothing to do with the characters. I thought Keller was vastly superior to Beckett in terms of characterization (*hides from Beckett lovers*) and on most days I can tolerate McKay. But I won't deny McKeller had an impact on S5. The impact was I needed a barf bag.

[Rac80]

I admit to being a shipper, BUT i like build-up to my ship. Call me old-fashioned, but I want to see the looks, the accidental touches, the slow realization there is something "happening" between two people. (Yep why I liked S/J.) The McKeller thingy was an out-of-nowhere fanboy fantasy.
I am a Ronon/Jenn shipper because you can see the slow build-up in S4... looks, convos, the almost kiss, the smiles. There is nothing like that with Mckay & Jennifer. Suddenly "BAM!" they have "hooked up" (and yes I am using that in the current venacular), the rest of the season is "the love boat". No thanks.
I admit to disliking Mckay, so seeing him put front and center was very off-putting. I wanted to see more of the team, where in heck were Teyla and Ronon?? Even John was barely there! They knew the show was ending and this was the best they could give us??? To say I am disappointed is putting it mildly! The non-shippy episodes were badly written and disappointing as well (Can't speak to BS, cause I have never/will never watch it!) Don't even mention EatG to me!

[iolanda]

First of all I just want to say that I'm not a shipper and did not need a relationship at all, but after "Quarantine" I felt that McKay should get a proper relationship (or none at all) and after "Trio" and "TLM" I hoped that Jennifer would be the one. I really loved them in those two episodes and hoped that it would evolve from this point further.

I'll just pick some of KatG's question:

Were you pleased with the way the relationship was developed?

Over all: not really. It had a start in "Trio" and during the start of S5 you really couldn't tell that there was some logic development from that point. What we saw felt for me like the result of working down a list, just in the wrong order. It felt forced and artificial.

Worse is that it came at a cost for team time, and screen time for team moments.

Is there anything that the writers could have done differently?

They could have made Keller a part of the team. Let her bond to Teyla, get along with Sheppard, get the odds cleared with Ronon. Have them some walking talking from the gate to some village. See Keller smile when McKay starts talking and have them exchange looks about a typical comment from
Sheppard. Something like that. Show some friendship between McKay and Keller, a link between them and a reason (something like TLM).

They could have watched Jewel Staite and David Hewlett closer and should have tuned that whole relationship thing for this two actors and this two characters. I had the feeling, that DH himself felt uncomfortable in some scenes and it showed on screen, so I wasn't really surprised when he confirmed that in an interview.

There was no real need for an established relationship. If they wanted that McKay gets the girl, they could have done it in a similar way they did it with Ronon and Amilia. Enough to show that there is something but not enough to bother people which do not like the ship.

[KatG]

I never really got McKay/Keller.

First off, I couldn't figure out what Keller saw in Rodney? Most of the time I just wanted to slap him silly. His constant whining and martyr complex was a serious turn-off. He was much better behaved with Katie Brown, and at least tried to tone himself down.

I saw much more potential with Ronan, actual chemistry in fact, but of course they used that to make Ronan look like a bully with McKay, thus making the main thing I remember about Ronan in S5 was that he bullied McKay in vying for Keller's affection.

I didn't know about Martin Gero's wanting the geek to get the prom queen, but it does make things a bit clearer as to where it came from. And I'm sure it didn't really help that most of the writers/producers identified with "the geek". A clear differentiation between writers and producers would have gone a long way in toning some of this down.

I remember in an S7 commentary for SG-1, Peter DeLuise talked about the "what for" room or the "why" room or something like that. It was the room the writers got called into, when what they wrote, didn't gel with the overall canon, and they had to explain their reasoning. That room, along with the AF advisor, seemed to disappear in S9 and S10 of SG-1 as well as in S2 of SGA.

[Ewokmonster]

I like the pairing.

But even I can freely admit it had a horrible set up. They went from a casual beer to McKay admitting love and skipped all the steps in between. The Shrine came totally out of left field even for me. If it had a better set up, would there have been such an outcry about it?

Can someone explain to me how McKay and Keller took over season 5? I can think of The Shrine, and Brainstorm of course. And the ending of EATG. But otherwise, I'm having problems coming up with examples of how they shoved everyone else out to make room for more ship. I think the writers just kinda stopped caring in season 5. They had a new shiny toy to think about, and SGA became the red headed stepchild. But I don't see how the ship killed the show.

[johndo22]

I enjoyed this couple impact on seasons 4 & 5 , to those who think there is lack of interaction and development look at the development from adrift
McKay is not someone who gives compliments lightly and he appricate Keller intellegence from the start, he also protect the plan in front of sheppard and take full responsibility of it. in season 4 even before trio there is lots of teasing between them and at dupplaganger and tabula rasa their friendship develop while both charachters remain true to themselves
they become closer in trio (they work together well) in the seed rodney first to notice jeniffer has problem and he also going to visit her just to give moral support, when sheppard talks to thela about rejoining the team and McKay make fast exit Keller join him immidiatly (and not just walk back to her office) the declaration in the shrine came naturaly.
the only thing sad about this relationship development is the infamous love triangle that came out of nowhere, after they dont put togheter for almost a season Ronon and Keller came semi together although the writer had enough sense to show how "they dont play well together" on the Dedalous. Keller helped rodney become better man and he helped her with he confidence issues, too bad we didnt saw more episode with them together...

[Linda06]

Oh yeah that's another thing that irked me with this whole thing (what, can I help it if i've got a bad memory ) (shut up Jel )

They went from Jennifer asking Rodney out for a drink to nothing then BAM he declares his love for her in The shrine It is safe to say I was beyond confused as to when this happened!

[Rac80]

I enjoyed this couple impact on seasons 4 & 5 , to those who think there is lack of interaction and development look at the development from adrift
McKay is not someone who gives compliments lightly and he appricate Keller intellegence from the start, he also protect the plan in front of sheppard and take full responsibility of it. in season 4 even before trio there is lots of teasing between them and at dupplaganger and tabula rasa their friendship develop while both charachters remain true to themselves
they become closer in trio (they work together well) in the seed rodney first to notice jeniffer has problem and he also going to visit her just to give moral support, when sheppard talks to thela about rejoining the team and McKay make fast exit Keller join him immidiatly (and not just walk back to her office) the declaration in the shrine came naturaly.
the only thing sad about this relationship development is the infamous love triangle that came out of nowhere, after they dont put togheter for almost a season Ronon and Keller came semi together although the writer had enough sense to show how "they dont play well together" on the Dedalous. Keller helped rodney become better man and he helped her with he confidence issues, too bad we didnt saw more episode with them together...

ok we watched two totally different shows. I felt they did not "remain true to themselves" at all. They regressed jennifer until she became more of a whiner and wimp than mckay (hard to do) and mckay was sooo very squicky it wasn't funny. There was no build up in my eyes, but then it is all in the eye of the beholder. Mckay sure got over Katie Brown fast....I only liked him when he was with Katie...he stopped being such a jerk until quarantine.

[leiasky]

Nice prompt to get the discussion going

Just some questions to help get the thread started. Feel free to add your own in line with the opening post.

In what way do you feel that the relationship between McKay/Keller impacted the show overall?

The relationship affected it terribly. I've never groaned and rolled my eyes so much while watching any show. It wasn't a believable addition to an otherwise very fun and entertaining show and there was absolutely no chemistry between the two at all.

Keller could have, if written properly, fit in with the existing characters but she was taken from an unsure whiny character in the beginning, to 'Rodney's girl and still whiny and unsure' at the end. The writing of the relationship was something out of bad fan fiction.

[Briangate78]

Mckeller never bothered me. It did not take up the screen like ships on other shows have done. It was harmless cute fun. Every character seemed to have a moment to shine the last 2 seasons.