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Thread: Weaker Wraith

  1. #21
    Chief Master Sergeant WraithQueenH's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Re: Weaker Wraith

    I don't think we can judge if they are weaker then they once were at all. Dominate Wraiths on dominate hives aren't the beings we see die. It seems to me that the less ancient and therefore less powerful hives seem to suffer from in-fighting and well as food distribution issues and they are the ones we really see. To us and to the humans of Pegasus, Wraiths appear weaker as their forces are faced with more then just the "normal" Culling runs that Pegasus is used to. But because we don't know much about hive workings or the Wraiths' culture, we cannot judge that.

    All we know is that at the end of the series random Drone deaths and lower ranking Officers are more easily killed by SGA. Michael and the Hybrids don't count as they are no longer feeding so we cannot judge the Wraith by them. Take Todd, we don't know how many shots it will take to finish him off (and to TPTB I never want to find out). At this point, I don't believe that we can never know if the Wraith are weaker then before.
    WraithQueenH

    * * * * * * * * *
    "You are more like Wraith than you know."
    "I'm not sure I like the sound of that."
    "There is much about Wraith that you do not know, Sheppard."
    - John Sheppard and Todd, "Common Ground"

    "We all agree the Ancients were pretty screwed up. All the ones I met were arrogant and condescending and not for good reason. Now they made giant mistakes and never fixed them." - John Sheppard

  2. #22
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    You could look at it like this: in more plentiful times all the Wraith would feed more in general. The lessened strength of the Wraith is a result of a general shortage of humans. Its not that the Wraith are starving and therefore weak per say, they just don't have the surplus they were used to in order to power their enhanced abilities.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  3. #23
    Aragon101/Loneranger-1
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    lazy writing. you can justify it all you want with logic like "Wraith aren't feeding", but in the end it's just realizing "oh crap, if it takes a whole clip to take down a wraith, then our team is gonna get REAMED."

    It's the same as the Jaffa. Didn't Jaffa armor used to be able to deflect M4 Carbine rounds? (5.56) that's a pretty penetrative round. Same with the P90.

    Yet on how many occasions did we see Daniel with his dual berretas of doom (which are 9mm i might add) taking down legions of Jaffa who walk into gunfire indiscriminately?

    Very rarely when watching Stargate do i ever feel tension for the team. It's like Anime rules, even if they get hit with the one hit instant kill weapon, all it'll do is ruffle their hair and maybe a bloody lip.

  4. #24
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    You know all the times I hear fans yell lazy writing it means I was disatsified. A week doesn't go by someone yells it for a Stargate episode. Just because someone doesn't like it mean its lazy writing. Its quite simple. Beckett said the Wraith regentive abilities correlated to when then feed. Awakening the Wraith premature has severely limitied the Wrait's feed supply so it makes logic sense that they are weaker in regentive
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  5. #25
    Second Lieutenant Helmar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    The soldiers just aim better after a few years of anti-wraith-warfare. It's just like Starship troopers at first you need a whole regiment to bring down one bug and later on you need five bullets for six insects.
    A lot of the things that made Stargate awesome, but just with steroids, spread all over it. - Brian J. Smith

  6. #26
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    It probably was lazy writing. All I'm saying is that it is possible to reasonably justify it with some of the information present in the setting.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  7. #27
    Aragon101/Loneranger-1
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    But it wasn't written that way.

    For the first and into the second season, the Wraith were a credible threat. By the fifth season, Keller was able to hold one off in HAND TO HAND combat long enough for Rodney to use his Beretta of doom (probably stole it from Daniel) to take it down.

    The Defiant One showed a fully regenerative Wraith, and how much damage did it soak up? I think if a creature goes from taking dozens of bullets and getting hit with an fragmentation grenade to going down from a quick three shot burst, that's a MAJOR nerfing.

    The Wraith are supposed to be tougher, stronger, faster than humans. Yet what do we see? Equality in toughness i'd say.

    it's less that i'm dissatisfied wth the series (because i do enjoy it) it's more that it's not consistent and it's noticeable.

    I can understand the dynamic behind it too, like someone earlier said, "Die faster!" in order to keep pacing proper. It's a sad fact and i accept it, but why can't the writers try and figure out a way past it?

  8. #28

    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    I'd repeat the lazy writing thing, but by the same token I suspect the writers can only do so much with 'ZOMGEPICWRAITHFIGHTS'.

    I always wondered about what happened to the Wraith psychic abilities. They used to be able actually produce hallucinations and stuff in their victims... It seemed like that dwindled to them being able to only really read minds, and then to nothing.
    <sig removed for violating respecting the cast and crew rules>

  9. #29
    Lieutenant Colonel
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    I think the writers got a bit bored of the Wraith actually I've heard of some SGA fans at conventions rolling their eyes whenever the Wraith are mentioned. The writers made great villains out of them to begin with, but once Todd came along and the alliance with Atlantis was made it seemed that any other Wraith wasn't really that important. Don't get me wrong, I love Todd and the relationship he has with the Lanteans, but it seems that he is the sole focus of any Wraith 'interest' and the rest are just kind of thrown out there with little thought

  10. #30
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    In the first while, most Wraith were especially touch because the effects of s shortage of humans wasn't made apparent to them yet, so they just fed like they normally do. Also the defiant one was supposed to be stronger than normal wraith. Sheppard made mention of it even among the Season 1 Wraith.

    Keller holding off that one Wraith with basic defensive movements from a small stick is pretty silly. But I think some fans on gateworld concluded that Wraith must have been like a sort of drunken rookie or something.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  11. #31
    Chief Master Sergeant WraithQueenH's Avatar
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    Wraith Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post

    Keller holding off that one Wraith with basic defensive movements from a small stick is pretty silly. But I think some fans on gateworld concluded that Wraith must have been like a sort of drunken rookie or something.

    Drunken Rookie?! ROTFLOL Maybe it was Wraith Thanksgiving and he ate too much.. half asleep and all that.

    And here I thought that Ronon must have been teaching her how to fight and he's a great teacher. silly me.
    Last edited by WraithQueenH; September 12th, 2009 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Spelling
    WraithQueenH

    * * * * * * * * *
    "You are more like Wraith than you know."
    "I'm not sure I like the sound of that."
    "There is much about Wraith that you do not know, Sheppard."
    - John Sheppard and Todd, "Common Ground"

    "We all agree the Ancients were pretty screwed up. All the ones I met were arrogant and condescending and not for good reason. Now they made giant mistakes and never fixed them." - John Sheppard

  12. #32
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    I could try and find the threads where that was discussed if you want.

    Wraith are supposed to be stronger and more savage than most humans. And logically I really couldn't see Keller being able to hold on off like she did even with self defense lessons from Ronon (or was it Teyla?). But if you actually look at the fight he just sorta of wildly swings his arm around at here and she weakly tries to move a stick to block him.

    By contrast, in back Season 1: Steve and Teyla fought back and forth in what looked at least somewhat more like an actual martial arts duel. And she actually sort of lost.
    Last edited by Infinite-Possibilities; September 13th, 2009 at 12:21 AM.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  13. #33
    Aragon101/Loneranger-1
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    I could try and find the threads where that was discussed if you want.

    Wraith are supposed to be stronger and more savage than most humans. And logically I really couldn't see Keller being able to hold on off like she did even with self defense lessons from Ronon (or was it Teyla?). But if you actually look at the fight he just sorta of wildly swings his arm around at here and she weakly tries to move a stick to block him.

    By contrast, in back Season 1: Steve and Teyla fought back and forth in what looked somewhat more like an actual martial arts duel. And she actually sort of lost.
    Just an addition, but Keller fought a Wraith that was after a Runner...

    I think if a Wraith is going to take the time to hunt something for fun/sport, then he's not all that hungry.

    nice with teh Steve Vs Teyla comparison Green for you!

  14. #34
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    I could try and find the threads where that was discussed if you want.

    Wraith are supposed to be stronger and more savage than most humans. And logically I really couldn't see Keller being able to hold on off like she did even with self defense lessons from Ronon (or was it Teyla?). But if you actually look at the fight he just sorta of wildly swings his arm around at here and she weakly tries to move a stick to block him.

    By contrast, in back Season 1: Steve and Teyla fought back and forth in what looked at least somewhat more like an actual martial arts duel. And she actually sort of lost.
    You have to look at how Keller and Teyla were fighting. Teyla was not only trying to block the attacks she was also trying attacking while Keller was purely defensive. A person becomes more vulernable to attack when he or she goes on the offensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  15. #35
    Chief Master Sergeant WraithQueenH's Avatar
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    Wraith Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven_the_Atlantean View Post
    Don't forget..the Hoffan drug.
    These are a few quotes from different episodes,

    "TODD: Effective, yes; admittedly creative, but the truth is all of the existing Wraith factions have been adversely affected by this. Our food supply is being so randomly tainted, we have no way of knowing if our next meal will be our last."

    Mackay stated that....
    "McKAY: Let's not forget that Michael spread the modified Hoffan drug to dozens of worlds -- possibly more. I mean, no-one knows for sure, right? Which means that every time you feed, you're takin' a risk."

    Then at the time of the death of Michael, Teyla then stated....
    "TEYLA: Unfortunately there will be somebody else to take his place. Of this I am certain."

    So that itself made the wraith fraction weaker, the fear of encountering a possible victim(s) of the Hoffan drug.
    Wouldn't it be wise for them to start feeding on one another to ensure survival, instead of killing each other.

    Think about it,..why would you risk being engaged into a battle... destroying your own hive in order to feed on a world that has already been (possibly) poisoned.
    They can only feed on each other for so long under the best of circumstances. At some point, the lack of wraith numbers would be their undoing.

    While they are feeding on each other, they are decreasing their numbers. Humans that have been tainted by the Hoffan drug would be reproducing and increasing their numbers.

    The combination of these would be far worse for the wraith as a whole then losing a few wraith as the feed and find out what worlds have been compromised.
    WraithQueenH

    * * * * * * * * *
    "You are more like Wraith than you know."
    "I'm not sure I like the sound of that."
    "There is much about Wraith that you do not know, Sheppard."
    - John Sheppard and Todd, "Common Ground"

    "We all agree the Ancients were pretty screwed up. All the ones I met were arrogant and condescending and not for good reason. Now they made giant mistakes and never fixed them." - John Sheppard

  16. #36

    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Aragon101/Loneranger-1 View Post
    But it wasn't written that way.

    For the first and into the second season, the Wraith were a credible threat. By the fifth season, Keller was able to hold one off in HAND TO HAND combat long enough for Rodney to use his Beretta of doom (probably stole it from Daniel) to take it down.

    The Defiant One showed a fully regenerative Wraith, and how much damage did it soak up? I think if a creature goes from taking dozens of bullets and getting hit with an fragmentation grenade to going down from a quick three shot burst, that's a MAJOR nerfing.

    The Wraith are supposed to be tougher, stronger, faster than humans. Yet what do we see? Equality in toughness i'd say.

    it's less that i'm dissatisfied wth the series (because i do enjoy it) it's more that it's not consistent and it's noticeable.

    I can understand the dynamic behind it too, like someone earlier said, "Die faster!" in order to keep pacing proper. It's a sad fact and i accept it, but why can't the writers try and figure out a way past it?
    Also note, in that episode Sheppard doesn't agree with what McKay tells him is Carson's theory about the strength of the Wraith being in proportion to how recently they'd fed. Sheppard says..."There's gotta be more to it than that."

    I agree.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    You have to look at how Keller and Teyla were fighting. Teyla was not only trying to block the attacks she was also trying attacking while Keller was purely defensive. A person becomes more vulernable to attack when he or she goes on the offensive.
    Keller is a powder puff...and I dare anyone to disagree.

    She is less able than even Rodney...and we know he can't fight.

  18. #38
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Aer'ki View Post
    Keller is a powder puff...and I dare anyone to disagree.

    She is less able than even Rodney...and we know he can't fight.
    I disagree.
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  19. #39

    Default Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    I disagree.

  20. #40
    Chief Master Sergeant WraithQueenH's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Weaker Wraith

    Quote Originally Posted by Aer'ki View Post
    Keller is a powder puff...and I dare anyone to disagree.

    She is less able than even Rodney...and we know he can't fight.
    I strongly disagree. Rodney cannot shoot a gun with his eyes open after 5 years in the field. (I love Rodney but that's the way it is.. if I was John I'd never let him carry a firearm. Everytime he shot I wanted to duck because he's shots were THAT bad.) Kelley can shoot well enough and she wasn't in the field for that long. Even Keller's hand-to-hand was better... she is not a power puff.
    Last edited by WraithQueenH; October 19th, 2009 at 06:35 PM. Reason: spelling
    WraithQueenH

    * * * * * * * * *
    "You are more like Wraith than you know."
    "I'm not sure I like the sound of that."
    "There is much about Wraith that you do not know, Sheppard."
    - John Sheppard and Todd, "Common Ground"

    "We all agree the Ancients were pretty screwed up. All the ones I met were arrogant and condescending and not for good reason. Now they made giant mistakes and never fixed them." - John Sheppard

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