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  1. #121
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Except the drone's fire power is not independent from the carrier. The drone is not a fire and forget weapon, it's controlled by a neural interface that draws a huge amount of power. They need a ZPM to power the drones in the Antarctica outpost and on Atlantis.
    it can be set to seek and destroy on it's own. like in Rising.

    they don't require THAT much energy since Jumpers can easily fire them.

  2. #122
    Captain Gormagon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Um, the Jumpers have smaller drones. I thought anyway.


    Separate-Jumpers probably have cold fusion based power sources like D.H.D's, along with energy storage crystals.
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  3. #123
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Giantevilhead View Post
    Except the drone's fire power is not independent from the carrier. The drone is not a fire and forget weapon, it's controlled by a neural interface that draws a huge amount of power. They need a ZPM to power the drones in the Antarctica outpost and on Atlantis.
    They "use" a zpm not "need" a zpm. The atlantis chair was powered by a MK II generator with an output of a few (maybe 10) MWelectric. That MKII is going to really struggle with a full powered uberbeam.

  4. #124

    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    They "use" a zpm not "need" a zpm. The atlantis chair was powered by a MK II generator with an output of a few (maybe 10) MWelectric. That MKII is going to really struggle with a full powered uberbeam.
    Except they modified the generator to increase output by 600%, putting it in a state of barely contained overload. They only fired a few dozen drones and then the generator failed.

    It would no doubt require a lot more energy to fire the thousands of drones necessary for it to be effective in combat.

  5. #125
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    That MKII is going to really struggle with a full powered uberbeam.
    depends on what powers our Battlecruisers. because i have absolutely no clue.


    Except they modified the generator to increase output by 600%, putting it in a state of barely contained overload. They only fired a few dozen drones and then the generator failed.
    notice that the Chair sucks that much power, not the Drones. the generators were on for quite some time.


    the Ancients clearly had no need for efficiency as their city requires a ZPM for full functioning. well or some serious generators. since a Jumper has no real remarkable reactor, it's clear that the drones themselves don't need much, it's merely what you use to control them.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    notice that the Chair sucks that much power, not the Drones. the generators were on for quite some time.

    the Ancients clearly had no need for efficiency as their city requires a ZPM for full functioning. well or some serious generators. since a Jumper has no real remarkable reactor, it's clear that the drones themselves don't need much, it's merely what you use to control them.
    The Orion's drone weapons sucked up all its power.

    The jumper can only fire and control two drones at a time.

    As for the Ancient's need for efficiency, efficiency is necessary regardless of how much power you have since the wasted energy is dissipated as heat. A generator that produces 1 gigawatt of power with a 90% efficiency creates enough wasted heat to boil 2,000 gallons of water per minute. If a ZPM was not close to 100% efficient they it would generate enough wasted heat to boil an ocean.

  7. #127
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    The Orion's drone weapons sucked up all its power.
    the last time we checked, it could power it's shields for all of 4 seconds. it was hardly "all" power. more like "all available power". it was a ship barely capable of space flight, let alone space fighting.


    As for the Ancient's need for efficiency, efficiency is necessary regardless of how much power you have since the wasted energy is dissipated as heat. A generator that produces 1 gigawatt of power with a 90% efficiency creates enough wasted heat to boil 2,000 gallons of water per minute. If a ZPM was not close to 100% efficient they it would generate enough wasted heat to boil an ocean.
    except they don't, as Atlantis can leak teratons of energy without any noticeable effect

  8. #128

    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    the last time we checked, it could power it's shields for all of 4 seconds. it was hardly "all" power. more like "all available power". it was a ship barely capable of space flight, let alone space fighting.
    The shields held up fine against the Wraith.

    except they don't, as Atlantis can leak teratons of energy without any noticeable effect
    Except you have no evidence of Atlantis's inefficiency.

  9. #129
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Giantevilhead View Post
    The shields held up fine against the Wraith.



    Except you have no evidence of Atlantis's inefficiency.
    He's talking the ruptured conduits. That was bad writing btw, those energy leaks should have cooked the station. Bad bad bad writing.

  10. #130

    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    He's talking the ruptured conduits. That was bad writing btw, those energy leaks should have cooked the station. Bad bad bad writing.
    Except it doesn't make any sense for power to flow through the ruptured conduits at all. There would be safety protocols sealing them off and bypassing them. If there aren't safety protocols to seal them off immediately then, with a power source like the ZPM, the energy released would like nuclear bombs going off.

  11. #131
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Giantevilhead View Post
    Except it doesn't make any sense for power to flow through the ruptured conduits at all. There would be safety protocols sealing them off and bypassing them. If there aren't safety protocols to seal them off immediately then, with a power source like the ZPM, the energy released would like nuclear bombs going off.
    You have to draw the power, it doesn't spill out like an overturned glass. This is why zpms can be blown up without detonating.

  12. #132
    Lieutenant Colonel Ouroboros's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    The waste heat probably gets dumped into subspace or something. The same place where the shields dump all the energy from the weapon hits they take, because they certainly don't deflect it.

    The city is massively inefficient though. Remember early on in the series when they were worried about lights and such, or the gate shield, being a noticeable drain on their power reserves.

  13. #133
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    The shields held up fine against the Wraith.
    it wasn't very long in that battle. the episodes notes that most repairs were done underway, IE in the intergalactic journey. shields were finally operational on a useful level. the weapons systems weren't even properly done yet and the forced fire clearly did damage as they could no longer switch back to shields.




    That was bad writing btw, those energy leaks should have cooked the station. Bad bad bad writing.
    even though i have a theory which explains that, it really isn't any different from what we've come to expect from them.


    The waste heat probably gets dumped into subspace or something. The same place where the shields dump all the energy from the weapon hits they take, because they certainly don't deflect it.
    my theory states that the energy DOES get leaked in realspace, but as a form of energy which barely interacts with normal materials.

  14. #134

    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    You have to draw the power, it doesn't spill out like an overturned glass. This is why zpms can be blown up without detonating.
    If power can't be drawn through ruptured conduits then what's the problem?

  15. #135
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Giantevilhead View Post
    If power can't be drawn through ruptured conduits then what's the problem?
    If they are ruptured and you draw power thru them, energy is lost or cannot find its way to the destination.

  16. #136
    First Lieutenant Dragon_Heart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    it wasn't very long in that battle. the episodes notes that most repairs were done underway, IE in the intergalactic journey. shields were finally operational on a useful level. the weapons systems weren't even properly done yet and the forced fire clearly did damage as they could no longer switch back to shields.

    even though i have a theory which explains that, it really isn't any different from what we've come to expect from them.

    my theory states that the energy DOES get leaked in realspace, but as a form of energy which barely interacts with normal materials.
    Did you see the hits they were taking after they re-routed power to the drones? That was most likely the cause of not being able to get shields back up, not the shunting of power to them.

    The drones are obviously not powered by the actual energy device such as a ZPM for the simple fact is they are not physically connected. I'd say the reason an antartica sized assault used so much energy was maintaining a neural link to that many drones at once.

  17. #137
    Captain tomstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    I always had the impression that the Drones have their own Energy source. Maybe they are just charged ones by any Powersource and after that dont need further Input. Though I dont understand why the Chair needs a ZPM in the first place, we have seen similar technology that we could just hook up to our Powergrid. (Those Chairs the SGC wanted to use for training)

    Can just somebody explain to me why the Asgard Beams are supposed to be without limit? I mean that every shot should theoretically take alot of Energy, so the power source should be depleted at some point. Doesnt need to happen fast, but still.
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  18. #138
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by tomstone View Post
    I always had the impression that the Drones have their own Energy source. Maybe they are just charged ones by any Powersource and after that dont need further Input. Though I dont understand why the Chair needs a ZPM in the first place, we have seen similar technology that we could just hook up to our Powergrid. (Those Chairs the SGC wanted to use for training)

    Can just somebody explain to me why the Asgard Beams are supposed to be without limit? I mean that every shot should theoretically take alot of Energy, so the power source should be depleted at some point. Doesnt need to happen fast, but still.
    Let's assume that a mkII at 10 MWe powers the uberbeam with a buffer. The beam only fires a few seconds at a time so the instanteous release with a buffer is huge. The weapon would run quite nicely off a decent power supply. I would like to think a 304 has a 1000 MWe reactor of some sorts with an uber buffer.

  19. #139

    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by morrismike View Post
    If they are ruptured and you draw power thru them, energy is lost or cannot find its way to the destination.
    Which is why there would have to be safety protocols in place to either bypass them or seal them off or the energy "lost" will have be dissipated in some other way, which will be extremely dangerous.

  20. #140
    First Lieutenant Dragon_Heart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Asgard Beam weapon vs Drones. which is the all around better weapon

    Quote Originally Posted by Giantevilhead View Post
    Which is why there would have to be safety protocols in place to either bypass them or seal them off or the energy "lost" will have be dissipated in some other way, which will be extremely dangerous.
    Yeah, it could explode if it interacted with other systems (like a spark) or could just cause huge amoutns of radiation damage to the ship and kill the crew. All depends on the form of energy i guess.

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