Superhive vs Ori Battlecruiser

[Randar]

alright, the Super-Hive i think seems a bit insanely powerful even if its powered by a ZPM(Atlantis's sheilds dropped down by 30% in the first shots fired between them)

I can accept that the Ori Battlecruiser(or as i call it Origin class) would be insanely powerful, and that a Daedalus with the latest of Asgard tech is available...but thats not the point of this thread...

the point of this thread is more like what the topic says.

personally, i think the Origin should be more powerful, but then the Super-Hive defeated two (Non-ZPM) 304s and technically was set to defeat Atlantis.

then again, just how much worse is a 304 without a ZPM compared to one that does have a ZPM?

[jnadreth]

12 hits depleted the Shields of a non-ZedPM'd 304 from the Super Hive-2 Ori Main Cannon hits did the same

Due to its sheer size and armour I would say it would take a fleet of Ori Motherships to take out the RWH Kenny(Royal Wraith Hive). The Ori Main Cannons use brute force where the Asgard weapons nobble the shields and do a fair amount of damage. Even with the superior weapons it would take the Ori a while to tear that beast of a ship apart and they would take losses. I would say 8-12 Ori Ships would be needed to comfortably take out "The Kenny"

[loondoggy]

A little off topic here but I have to say a few things; first that super hive had to have been carrying alot more than one zpm(unless you guys want to say that Wraith Technology is superior to Ancient). And Secondly Even our daedalus class ships are underpowered! Just to say that wraith technology is underpowered seems to contradict some of the established Atlantis storyline and kind of a cop out.

[Ed]

I imagine they had more than one i mean todd made out they did a full scale pilaging of asuras (maybee the real reason the power grin went out) and they still had all the normal stuff

But wraith tech does stand the most to gain from more power due to its organc nature it can grow as much as it wants provided it has enugh power i mean did you see that armour eyeballing i was atlest 50m thick judging by the diference to a normmal hive round the engines thats insane those guns it was useing are normaly its small guns i imagine they just grew bigger.

[Ltcolshepjumper]

One has to take into account that the hive's organic nature isn't necessarily inferior to conventional hulls. One ZPM provided more than enough power to increase the hull size and density. The Asgard beams were not designed to cut through dense hulls like the Ancient satellite weapon (which conversely was not designed to weaken shields). The Asgard beams were made for shields, but was powerful enough to destroy conventional ships. Judging from the effectiveness of the Asgard beam weapons on the Superhive and the Ori ships, I'd say that it would take at least 4 Ori vessels to destroy the hive. That is not to say, however, that the Superhive would be able to destroy the 4 Ori ships in quicker time. Ori shields are very powerful. The Asgard beams were obviously designed to take advantage of the fluctuations caused by the firing of the Ori main weapon. The Ori power source makes the Ori shields near impervious to normal ship weapons. I'm not going to factor in Atlantis's defeat because in reality, if the Hive was able to do that much to Atlantis, the daedalus and other 304s should have been destroy in only a few shots.

[Ed]

atlantis isn't a battle ship its not built to fight in space getting pushed against an atmosphere it strugles to even land without crashing im not suprised it didn't do so well

[loondoggy]

I think a fully powered 304 would have faired much better against it. However, didn't the Wraith also have the technology to convert a ZPM power to their type of useful power. I know I saw it in a episode after Todd had stolen the ZPMs. Anyway wouldn't they have used the ZPMs earlier to power their ships. Since Ancient ships are said to be powered by ZPMs and they were destroying them wouldn't they have powered their hive ships like that earlier??

[thekillman]

ahem

Zelenka- all this weaponsfire is pushing us in lower orbit
BANKS- draining the shield!

[Ouroboros]

The 304s the Ori ships bagged in 2 shots were pre unending so it's not clear how much more over the top they got since that.

There's no way a single Ori ship is going to have any kind of a chance against that hive though. The over the top asgard beams did nothing to it and they're more powerful than the Ori beam. I doubt if even the whole Camelot fleet could cause any meaningful damage to it before it destroyed them all, given that 2 boosted 304s couldn't.

As far as all the people saying it had more than 1 ZPM to, any proof? I see lots of people saying this when it's quite clear from a lot of the dialog in the episode that it has 1. It's as powerful as it is because they'd been growing that hull for a while and since armour doesn't need to be powered during battle, all the rest of the ZPM can go straight to boosting the weapons.

I also don't have any trouble believing that some Wraith tech could be potentially superior to ancient in some areas, say like how effciently it uses power available to it. I know blasphemy right, but hell the asgard tech is already obviously superior in a lot of ways and the Wraith did win remember. It's also been no secret for a long time that ancient tech is extremely power hungry and wasteful in terms of what it can actually get out of one of their ZPMs. For example the city needs 3 of them just to take off where as a hive, which is much larger and bulkier, can do the same thing even with its original power generators. Even Anubis' mothership could probably do it (it could hover in atmosphere just fine) before getting the eyes and he never needed a ZPM.

[Buba uognarf]

I disagree somewhat Ouroboros, although I do think the Superhive would own an Ori mothership I think you're giving the Asgard way too much credit.

For starters I see know reason to think per shot the Asgard beams are more powerful than the Ori's, I actually think the Ori beam weapon has a chance of doing some damage to the Hive. However the fully ZPM intergrated Hive would have been even tougher than when the Deadalus fought it, so it may be completely immune to the Asgard weapons, in which cause I wouldn't expect major damage from the Ori weapon.

I think there are 2 weapon systems which could effectively take that Hive down, the Lantian satellite + Drones, lots of Drones. The Asgard beams don't have the capacity of drones to fire a huge volley at once.

[wise one]

well it all depends really the ori will fair a better chance since its shields are so strong and a few hits to parts of the hive would cripple it

ori ships can move in places hives cant, hit the back of the super hive and it wouldnt be able to move forward on sublight and hit the sides where the dart bay doors are and the beam would still continue through

maybe if the ori ship hits the denser hulls then the hive would have a chance or weapons are taken out

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

I would say that if the Ori mother ship has Naruce's shields featured in Beachhead it could take the Super Hive.
I think the Ori beam weapons are pretty much a raw power weapon, probably more powerful than the satellite featured in Ethon, so they could probably cause a lot of damage to the Hive's hull and as their firing rate is pretty high I don't think the Hive would have enough time to regenerate enough before the damage became too much.
The Hive has some insanely powerful weapons, but I think that would just end up making the Ori's shields even more powerful, the only weapons we've seen that can penetrate those shields are the beams and probably Drones which the Hive doesn't have.

Even if the Ori mother ship's shields are just really powerful and not using the Hive's weapons to power them I don't think it could be written off that easily as it's obviously a lot tougher than a regular 304 and it's weapons are more powerful shot for shot than a Drone or Asgard plasma beam IMO.
If the shields are the regular kind it would still be close and would highly depend on whether the Hive could evade the Ori ship's main weapon or the Ori ship could evade the Hive's arrays and the Ori vessel still has some pretty powerful secondary weapons as was shown in Camelot which I think could do a fair bit of damage as they have a high firing rate and ripped through the Ha'Tak's shields in seconds.

As I think the Ori ships have Naruce's shields I think the Ori Battle Cruiser would win and even if it doesn't I think the shields could still be strong enough to withstand a fair bit of fire from the Hive and destroy it.

[morrismike]

12 hits depleted the Shields of a non-ZedPM'd 304 from the Super Hive-2 Ori Main Cannon hits did the same

Due to its sheer size and armour I would say it would take a fleet of Ori Motherships to take out the RWH Kenny(Royal Wraith Hive). The Ori Main Cannons use brute force where the Asgard weapons nobble the shields and do a fair amount of damage. Even with the superior weapons it would take the Ori a while to tear that beast of a ship apart and they would take losses. I would say 8-12 Ori Ships would be needed to comfortably take out "The Kenny"

The two hit deplete is prior to nearly ascended Rodney shield upgrades. The big wraith blasts are nearly equal to a ori main blaster.

[morrismike]

I would say that if the Ori mother ship has Naruce's shields featured in Beachhead it could take the Super Hive.
I think the Ori beam weapons are pretty much a raw power weapon, probably more powerful than the satellite featured in Ethon, so they could probably cause a lot of damage to the Hive's hull and as their firing rate is pretty high I don't think the Hive would have enough time to regenerate enough before the damage became too much.
The Hive has some insanely powerful weapons, but I think that would just end up making the Ori's shields even more powerful, the only weapons we've seen that can penetrate those shields are the beams and probably Drones which the Hive doesn't have.

Even if the Ori mother ship's shields are just really powerful and not using the Hive's weapons to power them I don't think it could be written off that easily as it's obviously a lot tougher than a regular 304 and it's weapons are more powerful shot for shot than a Drone or Asgard plasma beam IMO.
If the shields are the regular kind it would still be close and would highly depend on whether the Hive could evade the Ori ship's main weapon or the Ori ship could evade the Hive's arrays and the Ori vessel still has some pretty powerful secondary weapons as was shown in Camelot which I think could do a fair bit of damage as they have a high firing rate and ripped through the Ha'Tak's shields in seconds.

As I think the Ori ships have Naruce's shields I think the Ori Battle Cruiser would win and even if it doesn't I think the shields could still be strong enough to withstand a fair bit of fire from the Hive and destroy it.

The other end of that wormhole was open to the ori galaxy where the ori's power made that shield possible.

[Rise Of The Phoenix]

The other end of that wormhole was open to the ori galaxy where the ori's power made that shield possible.

I don't remember it being stated that the principles of the tech couldn't be applied to a ship's shields and if you recall it wasn't just the black hole that was providing the power to make that shield possible.