What led to the downfall of the Ancients, the Plague and the War (Major Spoilers)

[Wass]

Beware of major spoilers


I want to start thread where we talk about what led to the downfall of the ancients.

Now so far we have discovered that the ancients were suffering from plague that nearly wiped them out. Then we discovered in Atlantis that there was war involving the wraith who feed upon the new life created by the ancients in pegasus galaxy and also the ancients them self’s. The war resulted in ancients losing the war and retreating back to earth or ascending.

The assumption many people had including my self was that it was natural virus then once I learnt about the wraith in “Rising” I assumed that it was bio-genetic virus created by the wraith to kill ancients because they could not defeat them that easily the virus would have made them weak and wraith could take advantage of that.

Now in “Hot Zone” we discover that the plague that killed the ancient was nano-viruses designed to kill only ancients. It was not a biological virus and it was not created by the wraith. This begs the question who created the virus and why and what purpose.

Few ideas that I would like to through in, if the purpose of this unknown enemy is to kill off the ancients what would they gain from it. The ancients were a peaceful race from what we know so far of them. I have few different ideas to who this unknown enemy might be.

1. It was mentioned on a thread recently that the wraith maybe foot soldiers for far more powerful enemy and the wraith were genetically engineered killing machines in reward for there work the feed upon the humans of Pegasus galaxy.

2. There was internal enemy within if you like militants group of ancients who did not like the ancient councils way’s of doing things.

3. Out of four race in the alliance the only ones we have not seen is the furlings could it be that the furlings were the creators of the virus. But that brings up another question why would ally of the ancients turn against them.

Feel free to add your own ideas/speculations and disagree with me if you like or add something to what I have written.

[EnterTheLion]

SPOILER SPACE











If you watch Hot Zone again it specifically states that the nano virus attacks HUMANS, not Ancients. Rodney survived b/c he had gained the Ancient gene in one of the earlier episodes. Only something like 48 percent of the ppl on Atlantis are capable of getting the gene. Therefore this is not the virus that kills off the Ancients. Perhaps this was one of the viruses meant to kill off the normal humans who they protected, perhaps to provoke the Ancients. Perhaps this virus was the first volley in a war...something like what the common cold is to the ebola virus..and then the biological weaponry escalated to a virus capable of killing Ancients themselves.

Now as to the race that would do this. I can only think of one explanation. Ancient tech was probably ahead of theirs and the only way they could keep up is with biological technology, perhaps the Wraith and their biological technology was one of their creations. This could be plausible as different races specialise in different things.

[aAnubiSs]

My guess is that the Ancients had to choose between devoting their time and power to either the research of ascension or other cures, or the war against the wraiths (So it's a "Save our children or ourselves", they picked themselves).

[aAnubiSs]

And do we know it only kills humans? We don't know if it kills Wraith. It could have been a way of defending Atlantis if the Wraith would invade the city. Let the Wraith invade, release the virus and the city would close off any exit and all the Wraith would die.

But I don't think that the virus was created by the Ancients, simply because if the Ancients created it it wouldn't be based on chips and wires and wouldn't be effected by a EMP.

[LordAnubis]

Beware of major spoilers


I want to start thread where we talk about what led to the downfall of the ancients.

Now so far we have discovered that the ancients were suffering from plague that nearly wiped them out. Then we discovered in Atlantis that there was war involving the wraith who feed upon the new life created by the ancients in pegasus galaxy and also the ancients them self’s. The war resulted in ancients losing the war and retreating back to earth or ascending.

The assumption many people had including my self was that it was natural virus then once I learnt about the wraith in “Rising” I assumed that it was bio-genetic virus created by the wraith to kill ancients because they could not defeat them that easily the virus would have made them weak and wraith could take advantage of that.

Now in “Hot Zone” we discover that the plague that killed the ancient was nano-viruses designed to kill only ancients. It was not a biological virus and it was not created by the wraith. This begs the question who created the virus and why and what purpose.

Few ideas that I would like to through in, if the purpose of this unknown enemy is to kill off the ancients what would they gain from it. The ancients were a peaceful race from what we know so far of them. I have few different ideas to who this unknown enemy might be.

1. It was mentioned on a thread recently that the wraith maybe foot soldiers for far more powerful enemy and the wraith were genetically engineered killing machines in reward for there work the feed upon the humans of Pegasus galaxy.

2. There was internal enemy within if you like militants group of ancients who did not like the ancient councils way’s of doing things.

3. Out of four race in the alliance the only ones we have not seen is the furlings could it be that the furlings were the creators of the virus. But that brings up another question why would ally of the ancients turn against them.

Feel free to add your own ideas/speculations and disagree with me if you like or add something to what I have written.

"Hot Zone" hasn't played in the US yet, so I can't comment on what was said in that episode. However, I personally do not believe that the Wraith or the plague virus were created by the Ancients. The Wraith were alien to the Ancients, who awakened them in Pegasus.

If the Wraith did not create the virus that attacks humans, and I don't know why any intelligent race would created a virus that kills its primary food source, then I surmise it was from another super advanced race from Pegasus or another galaxy that encountered the Ancients or offshoot race of the Ancients. It could be anyone: Foothold Aliens, aliens who built the ship in "Grace", or any other race that we haven't received a satisfactory explanation in terms of origins and technology.

Or...it could be another race we have yet to encounter. It could be from the MW or the Pegasus galaxy. Maybe there was an enemy bigger and badder than the Wraith?

You asked some good questions, but unfortunately, not having seen that episode, I can't really speculate much. We have to wait until late January to see the new episodes

[Wass]

Just to edit my post you are correct the virus was created to kill humans not ancients my mistake. But that still begs the question why would the ancient try to kill off the human because if they do then the wraith would come after them.

[Wass]

And do we know it only kills humans? We don't know if it kills Wraith. It could have been a way of defending Atlantis if the Wraith would invade the city. Let the Wraith invade, release the virus and the city would close off any exit and all the Wraith would die.

But the virus in "Hot Zone" was created to kill humans not the wraith.

[Ugly Pig]

But the virus in "Hot Zone" was created to kill humans not the wraith.

We don't know that. All we know is that it does kill humans. It may still have the same or a similar effect on the Wraith.

[Wass]

We don't know that. All we know is that it does kill humans. It may still have the same or a similar effect on the Wraith.

If that is the case then there is good possibility that the ancient were developing this virus.

[Hatcheter]

Whatever the details are on the virus, it's seems clear to me that they're setting up possible future stories.

But remember, Atlantis is millions of years old. Who knows when that thing was picked up, or what other nasty suprises could be tucked away around the city.

In that regard, we know that the Ancient's plague was in the Milky Way before Atlantis left for Pegasus, and was likely the reason they fled (and left Ayiana behind). As this was long before the evolution of humans, it reduces the likelyhood that the two viruses are related.

Also, we don't know that the Ancient's plague was a nanovirus. Could a Goa'uld symbiote eliminate a nanovirus?

I think it was probably more likely that the virus in Hot Zone was created relatively recently, by an as yet unknown species encountered by the Ancients in the Pegasus galaxy. Where said aliens are now is yet to be determined.

[Gregorius]

Things that could've lead to the downfall of the Ancients:
- Other priorities; Their ascension research was far more important to them than the war against the Wraith.
- Outnumbered; There were too few Ancients to fight off the Wraith.
- Peaceful; They hadn't fought a war in milions of year, so they would've had a serious lack of military thinking.
- Arrogance; They were the most powerful race in out Galaxy and never met a race that matched their own powers.

[AsgardCarnage]

makes sense that maybe the virus was meant for the wraith give them back a bit of their own medicen make them see what we see before they kill us. maybe it just wasn't finished yet they didn't add the "dont kill human" sub routine into the nano's yet? i doubt it, my guess it is an opening for a bigger bad ass, with the wraith as their puppets.

do we know if the ones who did ascend were on atlantis or earth when they did? or were the ones who fled back to earth the ones who couldn't ascend for what ever reason?

[Mio]

McKay, at the end of the episode, when asked who made the nanovirus, answered,

'i honestly don't know. But whoever they are, i just hope they aren't still around'

That means that judging from the info in the Ancient Database, it doesn't look like the Ancients made the nanovirii, but were simply studying them.

[JMatthews]

I agree with everyone who has said that the ancients didnt create the virus. I believe it was another alien race in pegasus that believed the only way to defeat the wraith was to kill the humans in the pegasus galaxy. I doubt they are controlling the wraith because why would they kill the food of their soldiers. I also think that they made it not target the Ancients because they knew the Ancients were technologically advanced to defend themselves against the wraith. I believe this race that made the virus is definitely non human and will prob be found next season or in later seasons.

[fingel]

My personal theory with the nanovirus is that the Ancients actually did create it. Sort of a scorched earth policy so to speak. We know the Ancients couldn't outright defeat the Wraith. By sinking Atlantis, retreating through the stargate and releasing the nanovirus killing all or most of the humans the Ancients could defeat the Wraith once and for all by eliminating their primary food source. It would be a rather brutal strategy for what we know of the Ancients, and was probably dismissed as an unacceptable solution, but the Russians have used a similar strategy since the time of Napoleon, retreating further into Russia, burning the crops and villages behind them, and letting the winter and starvation defeat the invading army. Just a thought